Poppies

Ahnimus

I'm thinking this social phenomena of wearing poppies to "honor" veteran's is really a selfish act. The other day, I was in Tim Horton's and there was a Veteran's donation box full of poppies, I donated $1, but I didn't take a poppy.

Over the next day almost everyone I saw was wearing one, in effect to say "I support veterans", "I donated to veterans", "I am a good person". Back at Tim Horton's all the poppy pins were gone and I donated some more money, like $0.56, whatever my change was.

Then I got to wondering. Will these clans of poppy wearing do-gooders think less of me for not wearing one? What would they think if they knew that I donated but that I didn't wear a poppy? What is the real significance of the poppy symbolism? Does wearing this symbol really bennefit veterans? Or is it a way of patting yourself on the back? Showing off your gratitude and generosity?

keeponrockin

IMO, wearing a poppy shows respect. It doesn't NEED to be worn but I think it's a nice gesture.

Ahnimus

Interesting. According to an interview with a member of the Royal Canadian Legion in the Barrie Examiner, up to 200,000 poppies are distributed each year. The poppies cost $0.15 each says Ken Stacey, chair of the Barrie branch of the Royal Canadian Legion. By my calculations that's $30,000/year spent on the distribution of Poppy pins. Last year the campaign had $70,000 in donations, which typically go to help the widows of lost soldiers.

So, that's about $0.35 on average donated for each poppy distributed.

Stacey says the poppies are free and I'm willing to bet that much of the poppies taken are taken without a donation.

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=755289

Yoyoyo

Kind of odd that one of the main reasons for having the military in Afganastan is to curb the opium trade...

gue_barium

I think it's a rather subdued show of support. For the Vets I think it's a good thing, for the supporters there can be any myriad of reasons for wearing the poppy, personal or not. I think it's generally done as a "good thing" to do.

Jeanie

"Poppies, poppies" (sorry , couldn't help it. Just a little Lion humor. )

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ntt3wy-L8Ok

I donate for Remembrance Day, usually more than the price of the poppy and I wear them too. Not to glorify war, not to make myself feel better, I wear it out of respect. AND so that veterans and their families know that I appreciate the sacrifices they made in their lives and the impact that has had on my life.

I also buy an ANZAC Day badge every year and attend the re-union of my Grandad's unit with all my family. There's a lot to be learned from supporting veterans and their families.

Anon

Ahnimus wrote:

I'm thinking this social phenomena of wearing poppies to "honor" veteran's is really a selfish act. What is the real significance of the poppy symbolism?

the real significance of poppies...

In 1915, Major John McCrae, brigade-surgeon, First Brigade Canadian Forces Artillery, was working in a dressing station on the front line to the north of Ieper, Belgium, when he wrote In Flanders Fields:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.


We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.


Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you, from failing hands, we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


In 1918 Moira Michael, an American, wrote a poem in reply, We shall keep the faith, in which she promised to wear a poppy 'in honour of our dead' and so began the tradition of wearing a poppy in remembrance.

i was born in australia and recently moved to the US. remembrance day to me is when on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, i would stop whatever i was doing and pause in silence for one minute, to remember the sacrifice of those men and women who have died or suffered in wars and conflicts and all those who have served during the past 100 years.

i visited the tomb of the unknown soldier a few years ago at the australian war memorial on remembrance day. there were poppies everywhere. i do not think that the majority of people that wear them do so 'to pat themselves on the back as you mentioned.' i genuinely believe that australians, are very much appreciative of the sacrafices those men and women made for us and wear them with pride and respect for the ones who will never come home.

visiting the tomb of the unknown solider was a really moving experience.

We will never know who this Australian was. Yet he has always been among those we have honoured. We know that he was one of the 45,000 Australians who died on the Western Front, one of the 416,000 Australians who volunteered for service in World War I . . . and one of the 100,000 Australians who have died in wars this century. He is all of them. And he is one of us.

sorry for the big post. but it's already remembrance day in australia. i miss home today. more than usual.

Ahnimus

Would it not show more respect to actually visit veterans or widows of veterans?

Why do I need random veterans to see me wearing a poppy? Does this not say "I feel for you, but I'm too busy to talk to you." I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but certainly, in my mind, there is not true altruism, in the sense that the giver has nothing to receive.

Hundreds of thousands of people wear poppies, which, as suggested, is a "good thing", like recycling or helping a neighbour in need, these "good things" are usually done to feel good about being a "good person" and are selfish at their core.

I've actually gone to their homes, spent time with them, brought them gifts, donated to their cause and yet, I don't usually wear a poppy. The symbol has no tangible quality to it and worse, takes from the coffers of the Legion. Perhaps I'm simply cursed with seeing through the fun and games and wanting to cut to the chase, to impact the future in a real tangible way. McCrae, as I know, performed a service, by motivating the selfish to lend a helping hand knowing they will receive recognition for their "Good" deeds.

vedderfan10

We wear the poppy because it is a time-honoured tradition in Canada to show our respect for those who gave their lives in WWI ... then WWII came along, and so on and so on... so now we show our respect as a nation to the veterans and widows of all wars and conflicts.

Lots of people don't wear poppies - and it really isn't a big deal. Most people are busy with their own lives and don't have time to analyze why someone isn't wearing one. Whatever. If you want to wear one, wear one - if you don't, then don't...

(sorry - Britain and Australia both also wear poppies)

Ahnimus

Vedderfan10 wrote:

We wear the poppy because it is a time-honoured tradition in Canada to show our respect for those who gave their lives in WWI ... then WWII came along, and so on and so on... so now we show our respect as a nation to the veterans and widows of all wars and conflicts.

Lots of people don't wear poppies - and it really isn't a big deal. Most people are busy with their own lives and don't have time to analyze why someone isn't wearing one. Whatever. If you want to wear one, wear one - if you don't, then don't...

(sorry - Britain and Australia both also wear poppies)

Argumentum ad Antiquitatem

baraka

Perhaps, other than tradition, it can have another purpose. I am actively involved in charities at work and we often give out pins and stickers to wear on your ID badge after a donation or a sign up for pay roll deduction is made. It is a bit like 'advertisement', others will see it and it will remind them to make their yearly donation or they are inspired by their co-workers. The bottom line for the charity it to receive as many donations as possible. Whatever works..........

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

Perhaps, other than tradition, it can have another purpose. I am actively involved in charities at work and we often give out pins and stickers to wear on your ID badge after a donation or a sign up for pay roll deduction is made. It is a bit like 'advertisement', others will see it and it will remind them to make their yearly donation or they are inspired by their co-workers. The bottom line for the charity it to receive as many donations as possible. Whatever works..........

Good argument. I can see advertisement as a real tangible bennefit to wearing a poppy. Hopefully, those that are influenced by this advertising are motivated to do more than just wear the advertisement themselves. I found the numbers from the Legion dissappointing, although they seem enthuastic about it, in previous years the campaign contributions only totalled $50,000, meaning total contributions, in addition to costs, were less than the total cost of distributing the poppies.

baraka

Ahnimus wrote:

Good argument. I can see advertisement as a real tangible bennefit to wearing a poppy. Hopefully, those that are influenced by this advertising are motivated to do more than just wear the advertisement themselves. I found the numbers from the Legion dissappointing, although they seem enthuastic about it, in previous years the campaign contributions only totalled $50,000, meaning total contributions, in addition to costs, were less than the total cost of distributing the poppies.

Well, a smart charity knows how to budget such things. Sometimes (not the case for what I'm involved with), one has to purchase the pin or whatever, the proceeds going to charity. We just had an auction and raffle last week and raised a hell of a lot of money. Mostly rich folks showing off, but what do we care if brings in a lot of money for the various causes.

Ahnimus

baraka wrote:

Well, a smart charity knows how to budget such things. Sometimes (not the case for what I'm involved with), one has to purchase the pin or whatever, the proceeds going to charity. We just had an auction and raffle last week and raised a hell of a lot of money. Mostly rich folks showing off, but what do we care if brings in a lot of money for the various causes.

Sometimes rich people make me sick. I donate roughly $500/year to various charities and not once have I ever received any kind of recognition for doing so and even in cases of the legion where I don't take the 15 cent poppy. I'm not a rich guy, I live in the slums, avoiding people throwing glass bottles at each other in a drunken stupor. It's like, some rich people will donate $1,000 to a charity, but spend $14,000 on windows for their home, $8,000 on new tiles, $10,000 on bathroom fixtures and $5,000 having the value of their home appraised.

Collin

At the end of WWII on the day the Canadians 'liberated' my grandfather's town (somwhere in Flanders) they dropped thousands of poppies from a plane... This isn't an answer to your question really, I know, but I just thought that was really cool.

Ahnimus

Collin wrote:

At the end of WWII on the day the Canadians 'liberated' my grandfather's town (somwhere in Flanders) they dropped thousands of poppies from a plane... This isn't an answer to your question really, I know, but I just thought that was really cool.

Heh, I guess that's cool, as long as someone cleaned up all that garbage. Hopefully it affected people in a postive, meaningful and prolonged way, and not just a "hey that's cool, by the way have you heard the new album by Deathklok?"

Collin

Ahnimus wrote:

Heh, I guess that's cool, as long as someone cleaned up all that garbage. Hopefully it affected people in a postive, meaningful and prolonged way, and not just a "hey that's cool, by the way have you heard the new album by Deathklok?"

Well, it was the end of a horrible war, so yes, I think it affected them. Everyone picked up the poppies and saved them.

Anon

Ahnimus wrote:

Sometimes rich people make me sick. I donate roughly $500/year to various charities and not once have I ever received any kind of recognition for doing so and even in cases of the legion where I don't take the 15 cent poppy.

why would you care whether or not you get recogniton?

Ahnimus

Pj_Gurl wrote:

why would you care whether or not you get recogniton?

I care that other people care.

Anon

Ahnimus wrote:

I care that other people care.

i don't think they do though ahnimus, and those that do are really not worth worrying about.

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

Would it not show more respect to actually visit veterans or widows of veterans?

Why do I need random veterans to see me wearing a poppy? Does this not say "I feel for you, but I'm too busy to talk to you." I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but certainly, in my mind, there is not true altruism, in the sense that the giver has nothing to receive.

Hundreds of thousands of people wear poppies, which, as suggested, is a "good thing", like recycling or helping a neighbour in need, these "good things" are usually done to feel good about being a "good person" and are selfish at their core.

I've actually gone to their homes, spent time with them, brought them gifts, donated to their cause and yet, I don't usually wear a poppy. The symbol has no tangible quality to it and worse, takes from the coffers of the Legion. Perhaps I'm simply cursed with seeing through the fun and games and wanting to cut to the chase, to impact the future in a real tangible way. McCrae, as I know, performed a service, by motivating the selfish to lend a helping hand knowing they will receive recognition for their "Good" deeds.

Who says I don't? Who says that other people don't?

Buy a poppy and wear it, buy a poppy and don't wear it, don't buy a poppy at all. People do what they can when they can. I have no problem with what I have done with regard to veterans AND it's really none of my concern what other people do. What I'm not doing is bragging about what I have done and then giving shit to everyone else for not doing it like me. As far as I'm aware Rememberance Day isn't really about us anyway.

I would just like to point out that the symbol of the poppy has a very real tangible quality for some. If you're not one of them fine.