Canada should sign on to missile defence: Senate report

Ahnimus

Canada should not waste military resources on defending the Arctic, but should sign on to the U.S. ballistic missile defence program and double the amount of money it gives for foreign aid, a Senate defence committee report released Thursday says.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/10/05/defence-report.html

Oh yeah? and what about those U.S. Submarines patrolling the artctic?

A U.S. nuclear submarine cruised through the Arctic Ocean last month -- probably passing through Canadian territorial waters -- but the federal government is refusing to say whether it gave permission for the voyage.

However, experts say it is highly unlikely Canada was even notified of the USS Charlotte's northern tour, which included a Nov. 10 stop at the North Pole, because it has no way of tracking what goes on beneath the Arctic ice.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=fb21432a-1d28-415e-b323-ceb22d477732&k=69493

About 6 months ago the residents of the area were reporting dozens of foreign Submarines in the waters up there. Why would we want to stop protecting that area?

Ahnimus

FBI agents slip into Canada without approval: report
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/10/05/fbi-border.html


Looks like our government is welcoming the American Union with open arms.

jlew24asu

does anybody really pay attention to what's going on in Canada anyway

rebornFixer

U.S. subs patrol our Arctic waters because we don't do it ourselves. No one in this country cares to spend enough money on defense, enough to ensure that we can keep our own borders secure. So the Americans do it for us.
Personally, I don't like this state of affairs ... It erodes our sovereignty.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

does anybody really pay attention to what's going on in Canada anyway

I think.. If I recall correctly.. some people live here.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

U.S. subs patrol our Arctic waters because we don't do it ourselves. No one in this country cares to spend enough money on defense, enough to ensure that we can keep our own borders secure. So the Americans do it for us.
Personally, I don't like this state of affairs ... It erodes our sovereignty.

Exactly, I read there is some kind of claus, where if we don't kick people out of our waters they become international after like 25 years.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

I think.. If I recall correctly.. some people live here.

news to me.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Exactly, I read there is some kind of claus, where if we don't kick people out of our waters they become international after like 25 years.

People that think we should not have a military drive me bananas ... Having a military does not mean your state is warmongering. Rather, having a military to secure ones borders is an important aspect of sovereignty.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

People that think we should not have a military drive me bananas ... Having a military does not mean your state is warmongering. Rather, having a military to secure ones borders is an important aspect of sovereignty.

Well, I deffinately rather we have military defending the arctic than sign on to some U.S. military project and consolidate our power. Any kind of military partnership between Canada and the U.S. ultimately means the U.S. controls our military.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, I deffinately rather we have military defending the arctic than sign on to some U.S. military project and consolidate our power. Any kind of military partnership between Canada and the U.S. ultimately means the U.S. controls our military.

thats a little extreme isn't it? we are neighbors. you act as if we are enemies.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, I deffinately rather we have military defending the arctic than sign on to some U.S. military project and consolidate our power. Any kind of military partnership between Canada and the U.S. ultimately means the U.S. controls our military.

I am inclined to agree ... Obviously we need to cooperate with the U.S. military, inasmuch as we share this continent. But yes, we need to do our own thing, with regards to bases, equipment, etc. I have mixed feelings about participating in the missile shield. On the one hand, its really not that different from the old days of NORAD. On the other hand, maybe resources would be better spent elsewhere, like the Arctic.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

thats a little extreme isn't it? we are neighbors. you act as if we are enemies.

We may very well end up that way.

With all this talk of sovereignty in the last few years. Is it any suprise Canadians would want to keep their's?

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

I am inclined to agree ... Obviously we need to cooperate with the U.S. military, inasmuch as we share this continent. But yes, we need to do our own thing, with regards to bases, equipment, etc. I have mixed feelings about participating in the missile shield. On the one hand, its really not that different from the old days of NORAD. On the other hand, maybe resources would be better spent elsewhere, like the Arctic.

I just don't see it. I don't know. I am hesitant to support military funding. They want to increase it by 15 billion. But I mean, we are already paying out our noses in taxes. If they want to do that, they are going to have to cut other programs, and they will probably be middle-class programs. Or they will jack the income tax on the middle-class up again.

PaperPlates

reborncareerist wrote:

U.S. subs patrol our Arctic waters because we don't do it ourselves. No one in this country cares to spend enough money on defense, enough to ensure that we can keep our own borders secure. So the Americans do it for us.
Personally, I don't like this state of affairs ... It erodes our sovereignty.

You're welcome. My tax dollars to do it.

PaperPlates

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, I deffinately rather we have military defending the arctic than sign on to some U.S. military project and consolidate our power. Any kind of military partnership between Canada and the U.S. ultimately means the U.S. controls our military.

I think the point is that you don't really have anything that qualifies as a real military? Also, Im pretty sure that other than keeping US safe, we have no interests in your military, nor your sovereignty.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

We may very well end up that way.

With all this talk of sovereignty in the last few years. Is it any suprise Canadians would want to keep their's?

dude, you honestly think we would end up enemies? we share a million mile border. the only way we would become enemies is if you outright attacked us. even canadians are smarter then that. no american or canadian would ever want that. its illogical to ever happen. you should be thankful we are patrolling your artic waters.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

dude, you honestly think we would end up enemies? we share a million mile border. the only way we would become enemies is if you outright attacked us. even canadians are smarter then that. no american or canadian would ever want that. its illogical to ever happen. you should be thankful we are patrolling your artic waters.

Oh, but we've been at war in the past! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

I think we will probably be assimilated with very little resistance. But I'd like to think we'd fight you and win. You know, like we did before?

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

I just don't see it. I don't know. I am hesitant to support military funding. They want to increase it by 15 billion. But I mean, we are already paying out our noses in taxes. If they want to do that, they are going to have to cut other programs, and they will probably be middle-class programs. Or they will jack the income tax on the middle-class up again.

I agree that social programs are a more urgent concern ... That being said, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want separation from the U.S., yet you aren't willing to help pay for what we would need to do to solidity this separation. Are you from Quebec, perchance?

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

I agree that social programs are a more urgent concern ... That being said, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want separation from the U.S., yet you aren't willing to help pay for what we would need to do to solidity this separation. Are you from Quebec, perchance?

No, I'm not from Quebec, I've never even been there.

We don't need as strong of a military as the U.S. though. Because we kick ass.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Oh, but we've been at war in the past! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

I think we will probably be assimilated with very little resistance. But I'd like to think we'd fight you and win. You know, like we did before?

Dude, seriously ... The historical and political context has changed so much since 1812. The odds of an actual war are very, very slim. It strikes me as bizarre that you worry about a hypothetical American conquest of Canada. The Americans are not the biggest threat this country faces. Did a bunch of Americans get busted for massing explosives to blow up Ottawa?

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

I agree that social programs are a more urgent concern ... That being said, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want separation from the U.S., yet you aren't willing to help pay for what we would need to do to solidity this separation. Are you from Quebec, perchance?

No, I'm not from Quebec, I've never even been there.

We don't need as strong of a military as the U.S. though. Because we kick ass.