Did Ahmadinejad Really Call To "wipe Israel Off The Map?"

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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The difference is one is radically more beligerent. It's demonizing propaganda.

    It's not "radically beligerent" to suggest that a government should be removed in favor of another via force? If George Bush said that the "Iranian Government should vanish from the pages of time", would you not call that "radically beligerent" particularly considering existing military involvement aimed at removing that government?
    It's also the difference of referring to "Zionism" rather than "Israel", that's a big difference to me. If you think that those two terms are synonymous, then maybe Israel should be removed.

    Can you tell me the difference between "Zionism" and the common belief among Arabs that they belong in that land?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's not "radically beligerent" to suggest that a government should be removed in favor of another via force? If George Bush said that the "Iranian Government should vanish from the pages of time", would you not call that "radically beligerent" particularly considering existing military involvement aimed at removing that government?

    While I feel that both statements are radically beligerent, one is radically more beligerent.
    Can you tell me the difference between "Zionism" and the common belief among Arabs that they belong in that land?

    The arabs inhabited the land for centuries after the Jews fled from Roman occupation. While I don't agree with the Roman exile of the Jews, I don't consider that a ticket to kill arabs and steal the land back.

    At this point, we can't just say "what's done is done" "it's water under the bridge" because the Israeli settlements in Palestine are grand and spread out, allowing Israel to claim ownership of that occupied land effectively eliminates Palestine as a sovereign state. So, Israel needs to retreat to pre-1967 borders where Palestine can have a definate solid state. As sad as that is, I believe it's the only way it will work, and the Jews can have their precious Israel aswell.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • acutejam
    acutejam Posts: 1,433
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The arabs inhabited the land for centuries after the Jews fled from Roman occupation. While I don't agree with the Roman exile of the Jews, I don't consider that a ticket to kill arabs and steal the land back.

    Edit: While I don't agree with the Israeli exile of the Palestinians, I don't consider that a ticket to kill Israelis and steal the land back.
    [sic] happens
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    acutejam wrote:
    Edit: While I don't agree with the Israeli exile of the Palestinians, I don't consider that a ticket to kill Israelis and steal the land back.

    Exactly, but it is a ticket to stop Israel from killing Palestinians and stealing their land. This is a rather unique situation because in ancient Palestine the Jews and Arabs lived together peacefully. But the Jews somehow got this idea they should own the land without any arabs and thus the reason for seperation. If you look at a map of Israeli settlements in present day palestine, you will see Israel needs to evacuate it's occupation of Palestine in order for their to be a two-state solution.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    While I feel that both statements are radically beligerent, one is radically more beligerent.

    Ok. Thank you for the clarification.
    The arabs inhabited the land for centuries after the Jews fled from Roman occupation. While I don't agree with the Roman exile of the Jews, I don't consider that a ticket to kill arabs and steal the land back.

    And can I also infer then that you don't consider Arab exile a ticket to kill Israelis and steal the land back?
    At this point, we can't just say "what's done is done" "it's water under the bridge" because the Israeli settlements in Palestine are grand and spread out, allowing Israel to claim ownership of that occupied land effectively eliminates Palestine as a sovereign state. So, Israel needs to retreat to pre-1967 borders where Palestine can have a definate solid state. As sad as that is, I believe it's the only way it will work, and the Jews can have their precious Israel aswell.

    And if Israel refuses do so?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    And can I also infer then that you don't consider Arab exile a ticket to kill Israelis and steal the land back?
    Correct
    And if Israel refuses do so?

    The international community needs to stop kissing Israel's ass and put some sanctions on them. Personally I think the USA needs to take the initiative on this.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Correct

    Good.
    The international community needs to stop kissing Israel's ass and put some sanctions on them. Personally I think the USA needs to take the initiative on this.

    I'm not sure the international community really kisses Israel's ass. The USA certainly does though. And I'd like to see the USA pull its funding and support. But I don't think Israel has any fundamental obligation at to retract its borders. If a "two-state" solution is only possible with those borders, it makes me wonder what the hell people were clamoring for in 1966.
  • brianjd
    brianjd Posts: 201
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I see a lot of people quoting Ahmadinejad as saying this, and I want you all to know that you are wrong. That's just what the headlines say, nowhere have I seen this directly quoted and/or properly translated. Read the below article for a better understanding, please.
    HE NEVER SAID IT AND YES, THE HOLOCAUST REALLY DIDNT HAPPEN RIGHT?
    ______________
    Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
  • brianjd
    brianjd Posts: 201
    polaris wrote:
    so ... everyone thinks that the president of iran (much easier to type than his actual name) sole purpose is to build nuclear weapons so he can destroy israel?? ...

    what do you guys take iranians for? ... for pete's sake ... i guess in the end - it makes it easier to put a real hate on the guy for future actions against iran ...

    i don't have any love for right wing hardliners like him but i'm not gonna buy into this marketing ad to support more war ...
    HOW ABOUT AMERICAN HOSTAGE TAKING WAR LIKE ENEMIES TO OUR STATE, AKA THE GREAT SATATN.
    ______________
    Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
  • brianjd
    brianjd Posts: 201
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Let's get this straight...

    Bankok Post
    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Saturday that the Palestinians and "other nations" will eventually remove Israel from the region.

    Al-Jazeera
    "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

    BBC
    "If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II... why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told Iranian television.

    So... Only one of these sources calls for the destruction of Israel and that is Al-Jazeera. They are saying as Ayatollah Khomeini said... Well Khomeini said the Zionist Regime must be removed, and that correlates with the other two sources. Poor translation.

    Look, I'm not taking the side of Ahmadinejad. I'm just sick of the demonizing propaganda. All sides are to blame, all sides are driven by religious and political motives. Kiss and make up.

    YOUR PASTING PRO AHMADNIJAD STUFF ALL OVER THIS BOARD. GIVE ME A BREAK
    ______________
    Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    brianjd wrote:
    HE NEVER SAID IT AND YES, THE HOLOCAUST REALLY DIDNT HAPPEN RIGHT?

    I am glad you agree he never said it. The holocaust though, I'm suprised you think that didn't happen. There is plenty of evidence to prove it did.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    brianjd wrote:
    YOUR PASTING PRO AHMADNIJAD STUFF ALL OVER THIS BOARD. GIVE ME A BREAK

    That is a blatant lie. Pro Ahmadnijad stuff would look completely different. I'm simply sorting out the bullshit.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • brianjd
    brianjd Posts: 201
    "Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism"

    - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

    ". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth.
    "Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so.

    "Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.

    "The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.

    "How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land.

    This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

    "And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

    "The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!

    "My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share.

    Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

    From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967)

    So Ahmadnijad never called Jews Zionists? And he never called for the removal of the Zionists? I call BS! So Does MLK
    ______________
    Irvine 1992, Las Vegas 1993, Mountain View 1994, San Diego 1995, Los Angeles 1996, Los Angeles 1998, Moutain View 1999, San Bernadino 2000, Los Angeles 2000, Irvine 2003, Irvine 2003, Moutain View 2003, Santa Barbara 2003, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006, Santa Barbara 2006

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