Did Ahmadinejad Really Call To "wipe Israel Off The Map?"

TheVoiceInside

polaris wrote:

so ... everyone thinks that the president of iran (much easier to type than his actual name) sole purpose is to build nuclear weapons so he can destroy israel?? ...

what do you guys take iranians for? ... for pete's sake ... i guess in the end - it makes it easier to put a real hate on the guy for future actions against iran ...

i don't have any love for right wing hardliners like him but i'm not gonna buy into this marketing ad to support more war ...

I agree, even if the Iranians had a nuke would they really use it to "wipe Israel of the map". I doubt it. cuz if they send one their way they know that Israel will send one and the US will send a bunch more leaving nothing of Iran. I dont think they hate Isreal enough to warrent their own destruction.

shiraz

El_Kabong wrote:

<scratches head>

which part of the word "translation" didn't you understand? Never seen a live event who got translated while taking place, or do you think every news stations in the world are having a transltaion-conspiracy? What is there you were trying to prove, that I knew what I was talking about (via live translation) and you didn't have a clue, so you just assumed?

Well, good for me then

shiraz

TheVoiceInside wrote:

I agree, even if the Iranians had a nuke would they really use it to "wipe Israel of the map". I doubt it. cuz if they send one their way they know that Israel will send one and the US will send a bunch more leaving nothing of Iran. I dont think they hate Isreal enough to warrent their own destruction.

So you basically think we should just trust that guy & see what happen, right? To trust the guy who is actually funding a terror organizations to fight Israel. Sure, lets give him a chance. Maybe he'll kill you, but maybe not.

NMyTree

even flow? wrote:

Much easier to blame Iran as you can't say anything about gods people and have them accept it.

Which "God's People" ? Muslims? Christians? Jews? (insert religion of choice)?

They all claim to be "God's People". Muslims do, Jews do, Christians do.


Personally I think Hockey fans and Hockey Players are "God's People".

Think I'll start a new religion. I'll call it Puckism. Puckist. I'm a Puckist.

TheVoiceInside

shiraz wrote:

So you basically think we should just trust that guy & see what happen, right? To trust the guy who is actually funding a terror organizations to fight Israel. Sure, lets give him a chance. Maybe he'll kill you, but maybe not.

Im not saying you should trust the guy, he definately doesnt want the best for Isreal but I really dont think of him capable of going that far. It would'nt make much sense. I think the guy is a nut but hes not stupid. I think that putting preasure on him and allowing for a revolt from the inside is much better than banging on the drums of war just because this guy can snap at any moment, i dont think its very realistic.

rebornFixer

polaris wrote:

and this is the problem ... what acts of aggression have iran committed against other countries? ...

do you honestly think he is sitting there and his sole purpose is to destroy all of israel?? ... if so, then i can understand why everyone wants to bomb him and all his people ...

and why we will never have peace ... as far as i can tell - the americans have done more invading then anyone else ... why aren't we bombing them?

Enough of the facile arguments about Americans ... Was that even the topic of this thread? Do you really want me to post a list of "acts of aggression"? OK, sure ... How about attacking Iraq in the 80s. How about arming and training Hezbollah, definitely sounds like an act of aggression to me. Now, did that change your mind? Thought not.

polaris

reborncareerist wrote:

Enough of the facile arguments about Americans ... Was that even the topic of this thread? Do you really want me to post a list of "acts of aggression"? OK, sure ... How about attacking Iraq in the 80s. How about arming and training Hezbollah, definitely sounds like an act of aggression to me. Now, did that change your mind? Thought not.

ha! ... is iraq now a victim cuz its convenient? ... iraq invaded iran just like they did in kuwait because of border disputes ... and if we are going to be talking about arming ... who arms the rest of the world??

see ... this is the crux of the difference between us - i'm not sitting here saying iran is some good guy and everyone is bad ... you can take all the propaganda out there and convince yourself of this axis of evil but when all is said and done ... the past actions of the so called "good guys" does not fit that mantra ...

so ... while the marketing campaign follows the drum beats of war - i'm gonna tune out ... you can buy in all you want ... all i know is that more innocent people will die because people buy into this bs ...

shiraz

TheVoiceInside wrote:

Im not saying you should trust the guy, he definately doesnt want the best for Isreal but I really dont think of him capable of going that far. It would'nt make much sense. I think the guy is a nut but hes not stupid. I think that putting preasure on him and allowing for a revolt from the inside is much better than banging on the drums of war just because this guy can snap at any moment, i dont think its very realistic.

Israel is not banging on any drums of war, we've just got out of one. In fact, Israel said over & over again it has no intrest with war against Iran nor Syria. The problem is, if the US decides to do something, us Israelis will be the first to get hurt.
Btw, Hitler was also nut and not stupid, but that didn't stop him from starting ww2. Too many people are listeing to that guy, so we got evey reason not to relate him only as some crazy guy.

farfromglorified

What in the hell are people arguing about here?

The competing translations are:

"must be wiped off the map"

vs:

"must vanish from the pages of time" or "eliminated from the pages of history"

Can any of those be positive????? George Bush has said less about Iran and half of the people here are going apeshit about the US "starting a war". What's the difference?

NMyTree

farfromglorified wrote:

What in the hell are people arguing about here?

The competing translations are:

"must be wiped off the map"

vs:

"must vanish from the pages of time" or "eliminated from the pages of history"

Can any of those be positive????? George Bush has said less about Iran and half of the people here are going apeshit about the US "starting a war". What's the difference?

Forget it, man.

It's absurd. Everything can be twisted, spun and bent. It's dispicable.

I often wonder how many of these lslam extremist apologists, are Muslims, themselves.

farfromglorified

NMyTree wrote:

I often wonder how many of these lslam extremist apologists, are Muslims, themselves.

Does this matter?

NMyTree

farfromglorified wrote:

Does this matter?

It shouldn't.

But bias runs deep.

Byrnzie

dkst0426 wrote:

Al-Jazeera
Bangkok Post
BBC

Yeah, those are such "American" media outlets there. :rolleyes:

I was referring to the fact that the article above pointed to a mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's speech being mistranslated by a U.S media outlet. I was assuming that a number of international media outlets had picked up the story - hence 'snowball effect'.

Ahnimus

dkst0426 wrote:

Al-Jazeera
Bangkok Post
BBC

Yeah, those are such "American" media outlets there. :rolleyes:

Let's get this straight...

Bankok Post
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Saturday that the Palestinians and "other nations" will eventually remove Israel from the region.

Al-Jazeera
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

BBC
"If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II... why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told Iranian television.

So... Only one of these sources calls for the destruction of Israel and that is Al-Jazeera. They are saying as Ayatollah Khomeini said... Well Khomeini said the Zionist Regime must be removed, and that correlates with the other two sources. Poor translation.

Look, I'm not taking the side of Ahmadinejad. I'm just sick of the demonizing propaganda. All sides are to blame, all sides are driven by religious and political motives. Kiss and make up.

rebornFixer

farfromglorified wrote:

What in the hell are people arguing about here?

The competing translations are:

"must be wiped off the map"

vs:

"must vanish from the pages of time" or "eliminated from the pages of history"

Can any of those be positive????? George Bush has said less about Iran and half of the people here are going apeshit about the US "starting a war". What's the difference?

Exactly. That's what I've tried to say, but whose listening?

shiraz

Ahnimus wrote:

Let's get this straight...

Bankok Post
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Saturday that the Palestinians and "other nations" will eventually remove Israel from the region.

Al-Jazeera
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

BBC
"If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II... why don't they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe," Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told Iranian television.

So... Only one of these sources calls for the destruction of Israel and that is Al-Jazeera. They are saying as Ayatollah Khomeini said... Well Khomeini said the Zionist Regime must be removed, and that correlates with the other two sources. Poor translation.

Look, I'm not taking the side of Ahmadinejad. I'm just sick of the demonizing propaganda. All sides are to blame, all sides are driven by religious and political motives. Kiss and make up.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/27/wiran27.xml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4384264.stm

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/003360.php

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702221.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2152412005


I'm just sick of your demonizing propaganda, like the exact words really matter - The man wants to destroy Israel (regime, country, people - same thing in that case), end of story.

farfromglorified

reborncareerist wrote:

Exactly. That's what I've tried to say, but whose listening?

Apparently no one. It's so ridiculous. Let's imagine that all Ahmedinejad really wants is to tackle the issue of Jerusalem (the bare minimum that his words can be interpreted as). Let's imagine that's all he cares about and ignore everything he's ever said. So all he wants is an Arab government in Jerusalem. Will Israel ever allow that to happen? No. So the question is now, how will you get it? Ok - you'll have to fight for it. Does Ahmedinejad have a problem with that? Obviously not since his administration is and has been funding active military efforts to accomplish just that. So where does that leave us? Iran is willing to fight a war over a piece of fucking land and install a new government in that process.

Even at the bare minimum you still have a guy who's ready to fight a war to install a new government in a foreign land. Is that acceptable? No, as so many of these other posters have already indicated by rightly chiding George Bush for the exact same thing.

I just cannot believe that this goes on. I understand that a lot of people really despise America or American policy or whatever. There's a lot of good reasons to do so. So many good reasons that you never have to contradict yourself with this kind of bullshit. Ahmadinejad is an Islamic hard-liner people. When he was mayor of Tehran he declared that men and women should ride in separate elevators for Christ's sake. During his inaguration speech he said "the wave of the Islamic revolution will reach the entire world". He is pursuing nuclear weapons. That's his right, but let's not pretend for a second that the only reason he's doing this is for defensive reasons. He's as much an imperialist as George Bush and probably more so. He very much wants to extend Iranian influence beyond the Middle East.

If you like this guy so much, put Jerry Falwell for president on your goddamn ballot in 2008. Or better yet I'll be more than happy to pay for anyone's one-way ticket to Iran.

Ahnimus

farfromglorified wrote:

What in the hell are people arguing about here?

The competing translations are:

"must be wiped off the map"

vs:

"must vanish from the pages of time" or "eliminated from the pages of history"

Can any of those be positive????? George Bush has said less about Iran and half of the people here are going apeshit about the US "starting a war". What's the difference?

The difference is one is radically more beligerent. It's demonizing propaganda. It's also the difference of referring to "Zionism" rather than "Israel", that's a big difference to me. If you think that those two terms are synonymous, then maybe Israel should be removed.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

The difference is one is radically more beligerent.

Huh?! Man, you can't just use totally false assertions to prove your points on here! How so?! Even assuming you're right about Iran's president (and you're not, but let's assume), what he and Bush said amount to the same damn thing! Removing a regime!

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

Huh?! Man, you can't just use totally false assertions to prove your points on here! How so?! Even assuming you're right about Iran's president (and you're not, but let's assume), what he and Bush said amount to the same damn thing! Removing a regime!

If you are referring to Bush's statment about Saddam then you are correct.

However...

"Wipe Israel off the Map"
and
"Eliminate the Zionist Regime"

are completely different. One calls for the destruction of a state, the other calls for a change of leadership. One is like the USA bullying Saddam out of Iraq and the other is like the USA taking ownership of Iraq.