At the time, he was my best customer. While I was a struggling entrepreneur, trying to make a living. Turning this guy in would have been a kick in my own face.
Isn't it sad that a business owner is at the mercy of a welfare recipient?
no excuse... you are trumpeting the "greater good" for all by eliminating welfare fraud, while at the same time you turn a blind eye to it when it affects your bottom line
no excuse... you are trumpeting the "greater good" for all by eliminating welfare fraud, while at the same time you turn a blind eye to it when it affects your bottom line
a touch hypocritical dont you think?
I'll have to disagree.
I grew up on street rules. Being a rat is one of the worst things a person can do. I've done it and suffered the consequences aswell. This particular guy would have had me killed, no joke. It's not my job to threaten my life for the greater good of something I don't agree with in the first place.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I grew up on street rules. Being a rat is one of the worst things a person can do. I've done it and suffered the consequences aswell. This particular guy would have had me killed, no joke. It's not my job to threaten my life for the greater good of something I don't agree with in the first place.
Based on all of your hard-line, conservative republican, bordering-on-facist posts, it is hard to believe you would use the "street laws" excuse to relieve you of doing your civic duty.
A true conservative would not make up his own "rules".
Based on all of your hard-line, conservative republican, bordering-on-facist posts, it is hard to believe you would use the "street laws" excuse to relieve you of doing your civic duty.
A true conservative would not make up his own "rules".
Conservative? People usually call me liberal.
Truth is, I'm not polarized.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.
Well that doesn't mean that your experience is typical, or that you have met/heard of a representative selection of those recipients.
A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.
So the system worked for you. That's fine isn't it?
While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.
Broad assumptions here. "He's standing on his feet, why the hell aint he working" But I dont know the specific mechanincs of your system.
I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"
Well that's strange, unless you canadians have specifically targetted programs at these groups, rather than having a general program.
He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.
Some can always circumnaviagte the system to their benefit, and for all I know, his former job was much more taxing on his back than snowmobiling.
The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.
People on welfare should not drink beer?
I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.
Perhaps that makes you rather unique, or rather that the people that rightfully claim, aren't so obvious or noted as the abusers.
On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.
And how would you do that apart from lowering the age one is considered to be an adult?
These couple of stories does not paint a picture of the canadian welfare system, unless you could prove that these stories are very typical and common. That you havent heard other stories is not proof in itself. What can be a problem, and something being debated in Norway too, is that once you're on a benefit, you may not take a job until it's nearing it's end, not necessarily because you dont want to work, but because the rules and taxation are sorted in such a way that someone with, say, a partly disability will hardly make any more from working than from benefits, because of reduced benefits (because you dont need it) and tax on that income. The solution isn't necessarily get rid of welfare, but perhaps a tuning is in order if it is shown to be a significant problem in prats of it.
Are there any canadians that has a good understanding of the canadian welfare system that would care to educate me on it's workings and perceived problems etc?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
These couple of stories does not paint a picture of the canadian welfare system, unless you could prove that these stories are very typical and common. That you havent heard other stories is not proof in itself. What can be a problem, and something being debated in Norway too, is that once you're on a benefit, you may not take a job until it's nearing it's end, not necessarily because you dont want to work, but because the rules and taxation are sorted in such a way that someone with, say, a partly disability will hardly make any more from working than from benefits, because of reduced benefits (because you dont need it) and tax on that income. The solution isn't necessarily get rid of welfare, but perhaps a tuning is in order if it is shown to be a significant problem in prats of it.
What do you consider a person that needs to be on welfare? We have a disability program for people that can't work at all. We have Canada Pension Plan for retired folks. Welfare is only there for people that can't find work. I was at a point where I was homeless and ready to go to a shelter and work from Labour Ready. A place you can go to each day and get work for the day. It's not a permanent job, but it pays alright. Welfare wasn't there for me, I don't really take it personally except I know it's because I'm a white guy. I'm the one that is supposed to be paying those cheques. My mother is disabled and gets disability. She also has a husband that makes really good money, they own a big fancy house on the west coast, it's overlooking the ocean. They have a big yard and a pond in the back. A huge deck that wraps around their house and they own two vehicles. My cousin actually got caught cheating the system and her husband did weekends in jail for a while. It was like $10,000 they were caught stealing from the government.
In the case of Ontario. If you are on welfare you collect about $8,000/year as an individual. If you are working full-time for minimum wage you are making roughly $12,000 Net/year. There are a lot of places to work where I live. Tim Horton's there are literally dozens of Tim Horton's drive-thru coffee shops in every city. The city I used to live in has a population of 35,000 and has 12 Tim Horton's one is a double drive-thru. They are always hiring, they don't usally descriminate, though mostly women and teenage guys work there. They offer a full package of benefits and they pay for your uniform. I believe they also pay like $10/hr. I could be wrong about the wage though. Then there is call centres, if you can speak english, cut copy & paste on a computer, you can work in a call centre. They train usually for 2-4 weeks and then you hit the floor taking calls for some company. There are over 70 of these in my city. They offer a nice package of bennefits and usally pay $9-$17/hr. They hire literally everyone, all ages, all lifestyles, all races, etc..
If a person can't find a job in this city, they aren't looking. So if they live in the middle of a bush and can't find a job, who's fault is that? Live within your means. Beer is roughly $50 a case, probably more since the increase on alcohol tax. Most alcoholics drink about a case a week if they are conservative. That's $2,600/year a nice chunk of that welfare. Water out of the tap is free. I invested in a water filter and it cost me $60/year. I mean I drink coffee and stuff too. But hell, I can't drink like that, I choose to spend my money on other things, either way, I earned it. I also earned that income tax, the PST and GST. I agree we need a certain number of cops. We need disability for people I met first hand that need it and get nothing or very little. We need Employment Insurance to help people get back on their feet. We don't need a long term system for people to live from. It's just an opening. And also, I knew some homeless people that owned boats and houses. Just because they are beggars doesn't mean they are homeles. In Victoria B.C. I knew first hand beggars that lived better than me. They easily make $15/hr sometimes in a busy tourist city, especially if they have an act. They also say "Looking?" and if you say "yea" they ask what you are looking for, and whatever it is they get a cut from the supplier. They take you to him, or he doesn't exist, but they convince you to give the money up front and wait outside.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
What do you consider a person that needs to be on welfare? We have a disability program for people that can't work at all. We have Canada Pension Plan for retired folks. Welfare is only there for people that can't find work. I was at a point where I was homeless and ready to go to a shelter and work from Labour Ready. A place you can go to each day and get work for the day. It's not a permanent job, but it pays alright. Welfare wasn't there for me, I don't really take it personally except I know it's because I'm a white guy. I'm the one that is supposed to be paying those cheques. My mother is disabled and gets disability. She also has a husband that makes really good money, they own a big fancy house on the west coast, it's overlooking the ocean. They have a big yard and a pond in the back. A huge deck that wraps around their house and they own two vehicles. My cousin actually got caught cheating the system and her husband did weekends in jail for a while. It was like $10,000 they were caught stealing from the government.
I appreciate you sharing your experience with it. If the system is like the norwegian, then for disability purposes evryone is counted as an individual. Doesn't matter to whom you're married. The system is geared towards double income families, where 2 incomes are needed. That way some people get when they dont necessarily need, but if those same are paying taxes they can consider it a taxcut. The point of functioning welfare regimes, is that there are programs in place not only for the most needy, but for more regular people, so that they dont fall down into the most needy category in the first place. But sorry to hear you got screwed over by that.
In the case of Ontario. If you are on welfare you collect about $8,000/year as an individual. If you are working full-time for minimum wage you are making roughly $12,000 Net/year. There are a lot of places to work where I live. Tim Horton's there are literally dozens of Tim Horton's drive-thru coffee shops in every city. The city I used to live in has a population of 35,000 and has 12 Tim Horton's one is a double drive-thru. They are always hiring, they don't usally descriminate, though mostly women and teenage guys work there. They offer a full package of benefits and they pay for your uniform. I believe they also pay like $10/hr. I could be wrong about the wage though. Then there is call centres, if you can speak english, cut copy & paste on a computer, you can work in a call centre. They train usually for 2-4 weeks and then you hit the floor taking calls for some company. There are over 70 of these in my city. They offer a nice package of bennefits and usally pay $9-$17/hr. They hire literally everyone, all ages, all lifestyles, all races, etc..
Which should indicate that for most people, there should be more than enough incentive for them to pick up a job, if that increases their earnings by 50%. The provisions are not too generous then. Then there must be other factors involved as to why people dont take those jobs.
If a person can't find a job in this city, they aren't looking. So if they live in the middle of a bush and can't find a job, who's fault is that? Live within your means. Beer is roughly $50 a case, probably more since the increase on alcohol tax. Most alcoholics drink about a case a week if they are conservative. That's $2,600/year a nice chunk of that welfare. Water out of the tap is free. I invested in a water filter and it cost me $60/year. I mean I drink coffee and stuff too. But hell, I can't drink like that, I choose to spend my money on other things, either way, I earned it. I also earned that income tax, the PST and GST. I agree we need a certain number of cops. We need disability for people I met first hand that need it and get nothing or very little. We need Employment Insurance to help people get back on their feet. We don't need a long term system for people to live from. It's just an opening. And also, I knew some homeless people that owned boats and houses. Just because they are beggars doesn't mean they are homeles. In Victoria B.C. I knew first hand beggars that lived better than me. They easily make $15/hr sometimes in a busy tourist city, especially if they have an act. They also say "Looking?" and if you say "yea" they ask what you are looking for, and whatever it is they get a cut from the supplier. They take you to him, or he doesn't exist, but they convince you to give the money up front and wait outside.
You are getting close to what we call an atomistic erroneous assumption. Just because you did, doesnt mean everyone can do the same to the same effect. You say everyone can move to the city and get jobs, yet all studies I've seen always show that unemployment is higher in urban than rural areas. You give examples of a workplace or two, and what a few entrepeneurial beggars does. Ok, that can solve the problem for some. What about the rest? The resons for unemployemtn are many and complex. Rarely, there is found any "lazy-effect" as to why people wont work. Actually, studies in Europe has shown that unemployed have a higher work motivation and ethics than actually employed.
Of course there exists some leeches, I have never said there didn't. The question is how widespread and serious it is. If you can find some empirical studies on what the numbers might be, I would be most interested. But some scary welfare abuse tales do not scare me, and I dont think that people should have to be rolling in poverty and misery to get any kind of assistance. That some can cheat that, ok, there are leeches in any system. But if the general result of the sytem is a benefit and helps a lot more people, well, is it that bad?
As a disclaimer, I must say I know little of the canadian system. I have read a lot of comparative studies on welfare states, but canada is never one of them. So for all I know, something can be very wrong with your specific system and the way it works. My defence is for welfare systems in general, and de-scandalizing the ordinary recipients of welfare provisions, who usually are in such a place that they can be considered to truly deserve it. Which is why I would be very interested if you can dig up any studies, articles or numbers describing the canadian system today. If you dont want to, I wont force you, I know it can be quite a lot of work to dig up stuff like that.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
The resons for unemployemtn are many and complex. Rarely, there is found any "lazy-effect" as to why people wont work.
The lazy effect is rarely found because it's very difficult to show or prove. You can't ask 100 people "Is the reason you're unemployed due to laziness?", and expect to get accurate data for some study.
A better study would be to find people who are not on welfare, but who live in an area where there is a high percentage of welfare recipients, and ask them about it. Then you will get some accurate data. I don't have a study like that, but I do know myself and other people I've talked to who live in such areas. And none of them say "rarely do I see lazy people leeching off the welfare system". However, none of them say "Welfare is only for lazy people". But it's clear there is a problem with it, and it needs to be reformed more than it has been.
And as someone mentioned before, corporate welfare is a lot worse, and gets little attention. That's why the social welfare issue is thrown in our faces all the time. It's complex, and it keeps our eyes off the major welfare leechers: corporations.
I think that says it all right there. A single employable individual working at minimum wage, which is like $7.50/hr for 40 hours per week minus their lunch breaks 3.5 hours makes $14,235/year, now subtract CPP, Income Tax and STD/LTD and it's about $12,000/year and that person is working. So it makes complete sense to me that a single employable person only gets $4,000 - $8,000 on welfare. They should technically be staying in a shelter and going to Labour Ready to find work and not sucking the system dry.
A couple with two children on welfare in Nunavut receives $36,325/year? That's rediculous, why are they on welfare to begin with? and secondly, I know a guy working 3 jobs to feed 4 kids and he doesn't make that much. The guy doesn't have a life, he works all the time. Thanks to these people no doubt.
just so you know.. I worked in child services in the North West Territories for quite a while and the reason the rates are higher in Nunavut is because the cost of living is double if not triple up north. I had a 2 bedroom apartment in 1990-95 which cost me 1500.00 a month. When the ice road was out milk cost up to 10 dollars a jug. It is an isolated province, it costs an arm and a leg to ship things up to the north because almost all of it is flown in. In the remote north they do not have easy access to fresh dairy, fruit or vegetables. You can not drive to other communities you must fly.. unless of course you drive from YEllowknife to Hay River which is the next town and that is about 5-6 hours away. Just to give you all an idea of the north. It costs about 700.00 just to fly from Yellowknife to Edmonton, the closest city. If you are trying to fly from Inuvik or Iqualiut to yellowknife you are looking at about 500.00 or more dollars. It is very very expensive up north.
another point I'd like to make..
my brother has worked for CPRail for the past 28 years, last January 2005 he suffered a brain injury and is unable to work. CPRail does not have long term disability, his benefits ran out in October of 2005. He lives alone on an acreage that has been in our family since the early 1900's. It costs a lot to look after a lot of property, not to mention the taxes. My brother is a proud person and declined to be on welfare, but he has every right to collect it when he has no funds coming in nor does his company have long term benefits and Canada disability pension will not cover him because they said, altho he can not work at CPRail, he can work some where pushing a broom around. So what do people like my brother do?
It has come to the point that we are going to be selling the land that has been in our family for so long just so he can survive for the rest of his life. that's sad.
The lazy effect is rarely found because it's very difficult to show or prove. You can't ask 100 people "Is the reason you're unemployed due to laziness?", and expect to get accurate data for some study.
Probably not, but that's not what I'm talking about either. I'm talking raw data. How many gets how much for how long. Those are the numbers that count.
A better study would be to find people who are not on welfare, but who live in an area where there is a high percentage of welfare recipients, and ask them about it. Then you will get some accurate data. I don't have a study like that, but I do know myself and other people I've talked to who live in such areas. And none of them say "rarely do I see lazy people leeching off the welfare system". However, none of them say "Welfare is only for lazy people". But it's clear there is a problem with it, and it needs to be reformed more than it has been.
That study would measure people's opinions and prejudices against people on welfare, nothing else. Although that could be interesting in itself.
And as someone mentioned before, corporate welfare is a lot worse, and gets little attention. That's why the social welfare issue is thrown in our faces all the time. It's complex, and it keeps our eyes off the major welfare leechers: corporations.
Quite possibly.
What truly speaks is analyzing a client's trajectory within various programs. I have just done that with Norwegian data from 1989-1995, and looked at records entering and leaving unemployment benefits and social assistance. (1989-1995 was a period of high unemployment in Norway) What I find over 62.000 records, is that a very small amount stay unemployed for very long, and of these unemployed, very few collect social assistance over time.
In other words, the norwegian system works largely as intended in that most people seem to get out pretty soon. There are some that stick of course, but they aren't that many comparatively. It's not so important how many registered unemployed you have at a given time, it is how long the various stay that way. If they get switched for others often, then the problem isn't too great and just periodical for the individuals involved. This is for Norway, mind. I do not know how it would look with canadian data.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Comments
no excuse... you are trumpeting the "greater good" for all by eliminating welfare fraud, while at the same time you turn a blind eye to it when it affects your bottom line
a touch hypocritical dont you think?
I'll have to disagree.
I grew up on street rules. Being a rat is one of the worst things a person can do. I've done it and suffered the consequences aswell. This particular guy would have had me killed, no joke. It's not my job to threaten my life for the greater good of something I don't agree with in the first place.
Based on all of your hard-line, conservative republican, bordering-on-facist posts, it is hard to believe you would use the "street laws" excuse to relieve you of doing your civic duty.
A true conservative would not make up his own "rules".
Conservative? People usually call me liberal.
Truth is, I'm not polarized.
So the system worked for you. That's fine isn't it?
Broad assumptions here. "He's standing on his feet, why the hell aint he working" But I dont know the specific mechanincs of your system.
Well that's strange, unless you canadians have specifically targetted programs at these groups, rather than having a general program.
Some can always circumnaviagte the system to their benefit, and for all I know, his former job was much more taxing on his back than snowmobiling.
People on welfare should not drink beer?
Perhaps that makes you rather unique, or rather that the people that rightfully claim, aren't so obvious or noted as the abusers.
And how would you do that apart from lowering the age one is considered to be an adult?
These couple of stories does not paint a picture of the canadian welfare system, unless you could prove that these stories are very typical and common. That you havent heard other stories is not proof in itself. What can be a problem, and something being debated in Norway too, is that once you're on a benefit, you may not take a job until it's nearing it's end, not necessarily because you dont want to work, but because the rules and taxation are sorted in such a way that someone with, say, a partly disability will hardly make any more from working than from benefits, because of reduced benefits (because you dont need it) and tax on that income. The solution isn't necessarily get rid of welfare, but perhaps a tuning is in order if it is shown to be a significant problem in prats of it.
Are there any canadians that has a good understanding of the canadian welfare system that would care to educate me on it's workings and perceived problems etc?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
What do you consider a person that needs to be on welfare? We have a disability program for people that can't work at all. We have Canada Pension Plan for retired folks. Welfare is only there for people that can't find work. I was at a point where I was homeless and ready to go to a shelter and work from Labour Ready. A place you can go to each day and get work for the day. It's not a permanent job, but it pays alright. Welfare wasn't there for me, I don't really take it personally except I know it's because I'm a white guy. I'm the one that is supposed to be paying those cheques. My mother is disabled and gets disability. She also has a husband that makes really good money, they own a big fancy house on the west coast, it's overlooking the ocean. They have a big yard and a pond in the back. A huge deck that wraps around their house and they own two vehicles. My cousin actually got caught cheating the system and her husband did weekends in jail for a while. It was like $10,000 they were caught stealing from the government.
In the case of Ontario. If you are on welfare you collect about $8,000/year as an individual. If you are working full-time for minimum wage you are making roughly $12,000 Net/year. There are a lot of places to work where I live. Tim Horton's there are literally dozens of Tim Horton's drive-thru coffee shops in every city. The city I used to live in has a population of 35,000 and has 12 Tim Horton's one is a double drive-thru. They are always hiring, they don't usally descriminate, though mostly women and teenage guys work there. They offer a full package of benefits and they pay for your uniform. I believe they also pay like $10/hr. I could be wrong about the wage though. Then there is call centres, if you can speak english, cut copy & paste on a computer, you can work in a call centre. They train usually for 2-4 weeks and then you hit the floor taking calls for some company. There are over 70 of these in my city. They offer a nice package of bennefits and usally pay $9-$17/hr. They hire literally everyone, all ages, all lifestyles, all races, etc..
If a person can't find a job in this city, they aren't looking. So if they live in the middle of a bush and can't find a job, who's fault is that? Live within your means. Beer is roughly $50 a case, probably more since the increase on alcohol tax. Most alcoholics drink about a case a week if they are conservative. That's $2,600/year a nice chunk of that welfare. Water out of the tap is free. I invested in a water filter and it cost me $60/year. I mean I drink coffee and stuff too. But hell, I can't drink like that, I choose to spend my money on other things, either way, I earned it. I also earned that income tax, the PST and GST. I agree we need a certain number of cops. We need disability for people I met first hand that need it and get nothing or very little. We need Employment Insurance to help people get back on their feet. We don't need a long term system for people to live from. It's just an opening. And also, I knew some homeless people that owned boats and houses. Just because they are beggars doesn't mean they are homeles. In Victoria B.C. I knew first hand beggars that lived better than me. They easily make $15/hr sometimes in a busy tourist city, especially if they have an act. They also say "Looking?" and if you say "yea" they ask what you are looking for, and whatever it is they get a cut from the supplier. They take you to him, or he doesn't exist, but they convince you to give the money up front and wait outside.
Which should indicate that for most people, there should be more than enough incentive for them to pick up a job, if that increases their earnings by 50%. The provisions are not too generous then. Then there must be other factors involved as to why people dont take those jobs.
You are getting close to what we call an atomistic erroneous assumption. Just because you did, doesnt mean everyone can do the same to the same effect. You say everyone can move to the city and get jobs, yet all studies I've seen always show that unemployment is higher in urban than rural areas. You give examples of a workplace or two, and what a few entrepeneurial beggars does. Ok, that can solve the problem for some. What about the rest? The resons for unemployemtn are many and complex. Rarely, there is found any "lazy-effect" as to why people wont work. Actually, studies in Europe has shown that unemployed have a higher work motivation and ethics than actually employed.
Of course there exists some leeches, I have never said there didn't. The question is how widespread and serious it is. If you can find some empirical studies on what the numbers might be, I would be most interested. But some scary welfare abuse tales do not scare me, and I dont think that people should have to be rolling in poverty and misery to get any kind of assistance. That some can cheat that, ok, there are leeches in any system. But if the general result of the sytem is a benefit and helps a lot more people, well, is it that bad?
As a disclaimer, I must say I know little of the canadian system. I have read a lot of comparative studies on welfare states, but canada is never one of them. So for all I know, something can be very wrong with your specific system and the way it works. My defence is for welfare systems in general, and de-scandalizing the ordinary recipients of welfare provisions, who usually are in such a place that they can be considered to truly deserve it. Which is why I would be very interested if you can dig up any studies, articles or numbers describing the canadian system today. If you dont want to, I wont force you, I know it can be quite a lot of work to dig up stuff like that.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
The lazy effect is rarely found because it's very difficult to show or prove. You can't ask 100 people "Is the reason you're unemployed due to laziness?", and expect to get accurate data for some study.
A better study would be to find people who are not on welfare, but who live in an area where there is a high percentage of welfare recipients, and ask them about it. Then you will get some accurate data. I don't have a study like that, but I do know myself and other people I've talked to who live in such areas. And none of them say "rarely do I see lazy people leeching off the welfare system". However, none of them say "Welfare is only for lazy people". But it's clear there is a problem with it, and it needs to be reformed more than it has been.
And as someone mentioned before, corporate welfare is a lot worse, and gets little attention. That's why the social welfare issue is thrown in our faces all the time. It's complex, and it keeps our eyes off the major welfare leechers: corporations.
just so you know.. I worked in child services in the North West Territories for quite a while and the reason the rates are higher in Nunavut is because the cost of living is double if not triple up north. I had a 2 bedroom apartment in 1990-95 which cost me 1500.00 a month. When the ice road was out milk cost up to 10 dollars a jug. It is an isolated province, it costs an arm and a leg to ship things up to the north because almost all of it is flown in. In the remote north they do not have easy access to fresh dairy, fruit or vegetables. You can not drive to other communities you must fly.. unless of course you drive from YEllowknife to Hay River which is the next town and that is about 5-6 hours away. Just to give you all an idea of the north. It costs about 700.00 just to fly from Yellowknife to Edmonton, the closest city. If you are trying to fly from Inuvik or Iqualiut to yellowknife you are looking at about 500.00 or more dollars. It is very very expensive up north.
my brother has worked for CPRail for the past 28 years, last January 2005 he suffered a brain injury and is unable to work. CPRail does not have long term disability, his benefits ran out in October of 2005. He lives alone on an acreage that has been in our family since the early 1900's. It costs a lot to look after a lot of property, not to mention the taxes. My brother is a proud person and declined to be on welfare, but he has every right to collect it when he has no funds coming in nor does his company have long term benefits and Canada disability pension will not cover him because they said, altho he can not work at CPRail, he can work some where pushing a broom around. So what do people like my brother do?
It has come to the point that we are going to be selling the land that has been in our family for so long just so he can survive for the rest of his life. that's sad.
That study would measure people's opinions and prejudices against people on welfare, nothing else. Although that could be interesting in itself.
Quite possibly.
What truly speaks is analyzing a client's trajectory within various programs. I have just done that with Norwegian data from 1989-1995, and looked at records entering and leaving unemployment benefits and social assistance. (1989-1995 was a period of high unemployment in Norway) What I find over 62.000 records, is that a very small amount stay unemployed for very long, and of these unemployed, very few collect social assistance over time.
In other words, the norwegian system works largely as intended in that most people seem to get out pretty soon. There are some that stick of course, but they aren't that many comparatively. It's not so important how many registered unemployed you have at a given time, it is how long the various stay that way. If they get switched for others often, then the problem isn't too great and just periodical for the individuals involved. This is for Norway, mind. I do not know how it would look with canadian data.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965