Welfare Whiners

OutOfBreath

tonywellington wrote:

This is hardly much money contrary to a lot of this angry man rhetoric here. Not mentioned in those statistics is that in Alberta the number represents a 50% cut in real dollars after inflation in ten years and does not provide enough money to meet necessities (food, shelter and clothing). Ontario and other richer privnices are just as bad. If we are helping people get back on their feet should we not allow them to eat? Methinks Canada can afford it, we do run a surplus, we did just cut corporate tax rates..... we can do better than this. Welfare recipients get less real dollars today than they did twenty years ago, this does not factor inflation. Imagine making less dollars twenty years from now than you do today. With rates this low (and they are low according to the National Council on Welfare) we can't expect people to improve their condition when they can't support themselves. Jobs, training and opportunity do not go looking for people on welfare. They need help, thus the term "assistance."

As for this welfare mother nonsense, I don't hear any proposals here about going after child support payments or dead beat dads who left these women in the first place. So the condom broke.... fuck her? Is that our policy? Why not give the dad the yacht and her the boot? Better yet we could just publicly shame the poor... oh wait already do by condeming them to the cycle of poverty we support. There is also very little government supported child care and no yachts being handed out in this country to welfare recipients.

There is not that much fraud in the system and all statistical evidence points that out. The "I know a guy who cheats" is as silly as the cry of the smoker, "my Grandpa lived to be 100 and smoked every day". The majority do not fall into these categories. If the suggestion is to cut them off, then I ask where are you sending these people? The streets, jail? addiction, abuse? Sounds like even more money than trying to help them get back on their feet.

I hear you. Social assistance can easily be the cheap way out, compared to incarceration costs and crime rates.

Btw, was that canadian dollars in the example? And how many canadian are there to the us dollar? My comment about the level of compensation was based on the assumption of us $.

Peace
Dan

even flow?

Ahnimus wrote:

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

Then why don't you do your part and report the piece of shit that is ripping you and I off. Do your part to help out and get rid of the people you despise. It would be one less scumbag for you to bitch about.

Don't forget that when welfare and UI were launched there was a good reason for it. Of course with free money comes scams. It is in some human nature to want everything for nothing.

tonywellington

OutOfBreath wrote:

I hear you. Social assistance can easily be the cheap way out, compared to incarceration costs and crime rates.

Btw, was that canadian dollars in the example? And how many canadian are there to the us dollar? My comment about the level of compensation was based on the assumption of us $.

Peace
Dan

The figures are for Canadian Dollars which are almost equal to US right now. I think our dollar is between 87 and 90 cents US.

Ahnimus

Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.

A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.

While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.

I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"

He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.

The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.

tonywellington

Ahnimus wrote:

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

This does not mean they don't exist. I have worked with poverty groups and can say these people are out there and there are more of them than these theives you are mad about. Now that you have stopped slamming women for getting pregnant, I see you are on to minorities. How about we deal with root causes of poverty instead of this anti-poor rhetoric. It ain't so bad for white men that we don't hold the top paying jobs and own the richest companies just yet. We are pretty well represented in government too, so I guess white guys are a pretty strong lobby group still. Women still make about 75 cents for every dollar we do in equal jobs.

I will leave it at that. Most people are not on the system that long. With EI as it the only program many can get is welfare, this does not make them theives. It means they need training for new jobs. That is what the system is for, it's a Canadian value to help the poor. Fraud is fraud, but you seem to be suggesting we get rid of all social assistance and that seems really short sighted to me.

I don't personally know a person with AIDS right now should I suggest it isn't real? Should we cut off all research and spending for that as well? Just cause I don't know any astronauts does mean there aren't any.

farfromglorified

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.

A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.

While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.

I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"

He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.

The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.

My mother has worked for the welfare system in the state of Michigan for over 30 years. While I am anti-welfare myself, there are certainly many people who need welfare. I simply do not believe that one man's need dictates another man's obligation. Regardless, I've met them, seen them and talked to them. Even more troubling are the children I've seen as well who are the real victims of poverty. Poor people certainly do exist.

Ahnimus

tonywellington wrote:

This does not mean they don't exist. I have worked with poverty groups and can say these people are out there and there are more of them than these theives you are mad about. Now that you have stopped slamming women for getting pregnant, I see you are on to minorities. How about we deal with root causes of poverty instead of this anti-poor rhetoric. It ain't so bad for white men that we don't hold the top paying jobs and own the richest companies just yet. We are pretty well represented in government too, so I guess white guys are a pretty strong lobby group still. Women still make about 75 cents for every dollar we do in equal jobs.

I will leave it at that. Most people are not on the system that long. With EI as it the only program many can get is welfare, this does not make them theives. It means they need training for new jobs. That is what the system is for, it's a Canadian value to help the poor. Fraud is fraud, but you seem to be suggesting we get rid of all social assistance and that seems really short sighted to me.

I don't personally know a person with AIDS right now should I suggest it isn't real? Should we cut off all research and spending for that as well? Just cause I don't know any astronauts does mean there aren't any.

I understand your logic in that last segment, however, television has shown us those things, but fails to show us a person in genuine need of welfare assistance.

What constitutes a person that genuinely needs welfare assistance? Would that be a person that drops out of school and fails to pursue any further skills and knowledge to secure a career? A person that carelessly puts their future in the hands of their neighbours because they can't take care of themselves?

I know several people that work several jobs to raise their families. They would be more than willing to offer one of their jobs up to have that welfare money back.

The problem seems to be that these individuals choose to live in cities where the population exceeds the available positions. Or at least for their skill sets. Or these people as you said, do not have any skills. So why should we just give them fish, when teaching them to fish will feed them for a lifetime?

Too many of the assistance programs are voluntary and that relies on the individuals motivation, which if they had sufficient motivation, they wouldn't be on welfare to begin with.

Now, in defense, I am not targetting minorities, women or single mothers. Those are typically the people collecting welfare, I am focusing on those people that are on welfare. There are plenty of single mothers, natives, blacks, chinese, etc.. that have full-time jobs and work for a living.

my2hands

Ahnimus wrote:

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

and you help enable this by not mentioning it to him or turning him in...so if your not willing to alert the proper authorities about fraudulant behavior stop "whining"

Ahnimus

my2hands wrote:

and you help enable this by not mentioning it to him or turning him in...so if your not willing to alert the proper authorities about fraudulant behavior stop "whining"

At the time, he was my best customer. While I was a struggling entrepreneur, trying to make a living. Turning this guy in would have been a kick in my own face.

Isn't it sad that a business owner is at the mercy of a welfare recipient?

my2hands

i know this a "canadian" thread about welfare... but to chime in as an american...i am much more concerned with corporate welfare and the constant massive abuse... i am also more concerned with nearly 70% of my tax dollars going to military spending

those are the real problems...not the poor mother living in public housing eating PBJ to survive with 2 hungry children being lead astray into a world of drugs and violence because their housing project is like downtown bagdad

peace

my2hands

Ahnimus wrote:

At the time, he was my best customer. While I was a struggling entrepreneur, trying to make a living. Turning this guy in would have been a kick in my own face.

Isn't it sad that a business owner is at the mercy of a welfare recipient?

no excuse... you are trumpeting the "greater good" for all by eliminating welfare fraud, while at the same time you turn a blind eye to it when it affects your bottom line

a touch hypocritical dont you think?

Ahnimus

my2hands wrote:

no excuse... you are trumpeting the "greater good" for all by eliminating welfare fraud, while at the same time you turn a blind eye to it when it affects your bottom line

a touch hypocritical dont you think?

I'll have to disagree.

I grew up on street rules. Being a rat is one of the worst things a person can do. I've done it and suffered the consequences aswell. This particular guy would have had me killed, no joke. It's not my job to threaten my life for the greater good of something I don't agree with in the first place.

JOEJOEJOE

Ahnimus wrote:

I'll have to disagree.

I grew up on street rules. Being a rat is one of the worst things a person can do. I've done it and suffered the consequences aswell. This particular guy would have had me killed, no joke. It's not my job to threaten my life for the greater good of something I don't agree with in the first place.

Based on all of your hard-line, conservative republican, bordering-on-facist posts, it is hard to believe you would use the "street laws" excuse to relieve you of doing your civic duty.

A true conservative would not make up his own "rules".

Ahnimus

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Based on all of your hard-line, conservative republican, bordering-on-facist posts, it is hard to believe you would use the "street laws" excuse to relieve you of doing your civic duty.

A true conservative would not make up his own "rules".

Conservative? People usually call me liberal.

Truth is, I'm not polarized.

OutOfBreath

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.

Well that doesn't mean that your experience is typical, or that you have met/heard of a representative selection of those recipients.

A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.

So the system worked for you. That's fine isn't it?

While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.

Broad assumptions here. "He's standing on his feet, why the hell aint he working" But I dont know the specific mechanincs of your system.

I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"

Well that's strange, unless you canadians have specifically targetted programs at these groups, rather than having a general program.

He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.

Some can always circumnaviagte the system to their benefit, and for all I know, his former job was much more taxing on his back than snowmobiling.

The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.

People on welfare should not drink beer?

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

Perhaps that makes you rather unique, or rather that the people that rightfully claim, aren't so obvious or noted as the abusers.

On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.

And how would you do that apart from lowering the age one is considered to be an adult?

These couple of stories does not paint a picture of the canadian welfare system, unless you could prove that these stories are very typical and common. That you havent heard other stories is not proof in itself. What can be a problem, and something being debated in Norway too, is that once you're on a benefit, you may not take a job until it's nearing it's end, not necessarily because you dont want to work, but because the rules and taxation are sorted in such a way that someone with, say, a partly disability will hardly make any more from working than from benefits, because of reduced benefits (because you dont need it) and tax on that income. The solution isn't necessarily get rid of welfare, but perhaps a tuning is in order if it is shown to be a significant problem in prats of it.

Are there any canadians that has a good understanding of the canadian welfare system that would care to educate me on it's workings and perceived problems etc?

Peace
Dan

Ahnimus

OutOfBreath wrote:

These couple of stories does not paint a picture of the canadian welfare system, unless you could prove that these stories are very typical and common. That you havent heard other stories is not proof in itself. What can be a problem, and something being debated in Norway too, is that once you're on a benefit, you may not take a job until it's nearing it's end, not necessarily because you dont want to work, but because the rules and taxation are sorted in such a way that someone with, say, a partly disability will hardly make any more from working than from benefits, because of reduced benefits (because you dont need it) and tax on that income. The solution isn't necessarily get rid of welfare, but perhaps a tuning is in order if it is shown to be a significant problem in prats of it.

What do you consider a person that needs to be on welfare? We have a disability program for people that can't work at all. We have Canada Pension Plan for retired folks. Welfare is only there for people that can't find work. I was at a point where I was homeless and ready to go to a shelter and work from Labour Ready. A place you can go to each day and get work for the day. It's not a permanent job, but it pays alright. Welfare wasn't there for me, I don't really take it personally except I know it's because I'm a white guy. I'm the one that is supposed to be paying those cheques. My mother is disabled and gets disability. She also has a husband that makes really good money, they own a big fancy house on the west coast, it's overlooking the ocean. They have a big yard and a pond in the back. A huge deck that wraps around their house and they own two vehicles. My cousin actually got caught cheating the system and her husband did weekends in jail for a while. It was like $10,000 they were caught stealing from the government.

In the case of Ontario. If you are on welfare you collect about $8,000/year as an individual. If you are working full-time for minimum wage you are making roughly $12,000 Net/year. There are a lot of places to work where I live. Tim Horton's there are literally dozens of Tim Horton's drive-thru coffee shops in every city. The city I used to live in has a population of 35,000 and has 12 Tim Horton's one is a double drive-thru. They are always hiring, they don't usally descriminate, though mostly women and teenage guys work there. They offer a full package of benefits and they pay for your uniform. I believe they also pay like $10/hr. I could be wrong about the wage though. Then there is call centres, if you can speak english, cut copy & paste on a computer, you can work in a call centre. They train usually for 2-4 weeks and then you hit the floor taking calls for some company. There are over 70 of these in my city. They offer a nice package of bennefits and usally pay $9-$17/hr. They hire literally everyone, all ages, all lifestyles, all races, etc..

If a person can't find a job in this city, they aren't looking. So if they live in the middle of a bush and can't find a job, who's fault is that? Live within your means. Beer is roughly $50 a case, probably more since the increase on alcohol tax. Most alcoholics drink about a case a week if they are conservative. That's $2,600/year a nice chunk of that welfare. Water out of the tap is free. I invested in a water filter and it cost me $60/year. I mean I drink coffee and stuff too. But hell, I can't drink like that, I choose to spend my money on other things, either way, I earned it. I also earned that income tax, the PST and GST. I agree we need a certain number of cops. We need disability for people I met first hand that need it and get nothing or very little. We need Employment Insurance to help people get back on their feet. We don't need a long term system for people to live from. It's just an opening. And also, I knew some homeless people that owned boats and houses. Just because they are beggars doesn't mean they are homeles. In Victoria B.C. I knew first hand beggars that lived better than me. They easily make $15/hr sometimes in a busy tourist city, especially if they have an act. They also say "Looking?" and if you say "yea" they ask what you are looking for, and whatever it is they get a cut from the supplier. They take you to him, or he doesn't exist, but they convince you to give the money up front and wait outside.

OutOfBreath

Ahnimus wrote:

What do you consider a person that needs to be on welfare? We have a disability program for people that can't work at all. We have Canada Pension Plan for retired folks. Welfare is only there for people that can't find work. I was at a point where I was homeless and ready to go to a shelter and work from Labour Ready. A place you can go to each day and get work for the day. It's not a permanent job, but it pays alright. Welfare wasn't there for me, I don't really take it personally except I know it's because I'm a white guy. I'm the one that is supposed to be paying those cheques. My mother is disabled and gets disability. She also has a husband that makes really good money, they own a big fancy house on the west coast, it's overlooking the ocean. They have a big yard and a pond in the back. A huge deck that wraps around their house and they own two vehicles. My cousin actually got caught cheating the system and her husband did weekends in jail for a while. It was like $10,000 they were caught stealing from the government.

I appreciate you sharing your experience with it. If the system is like the norwegian, then for disability purposes evryone is counted as an individual. Doesn't matter to whom you're married. The system is geared towards double income families, where 2 incomes are needed. That way some people get when they dont necessarily need, but if those same are paying taxes they can consider it a taxcut. The point of functioning welfare regimes, is that there are programs in place not only for the most needy, but for more regular people, so that they dont fall down into the most needy category in the first place. But sorry to hear you got screwed over by that.

In the case of Ontario. If you are on welfare you collect about $8,000/year as an individual. If you are working full-time for minimum wage you are making roughly $12,000 Net/year. There are a lot of places to work where I live. Tim Horton's there are literally dozens of Tim Horton's drive-thru coffee shops in every city. The city I used to live in has a population of 35,000 and has 12 Tim Horton's one is a double drive-thru. They are always hiring, they don't usally descriminate, though mostly women and teenage guys work there. They offer a full package of benefits and they pay for your uniform. I believe they also pay like $10/hr. I could be wrong about the wage though. Then there is call centres, if you can speak english, cut copy & paste on a computer, you can work in a call centre. They train usually for 2-4 weeks and then you hit the floor taking calls for some company. There are over 70 of these in my city. They offer a nice package of bennefits and usally pay $9-$17/hr. They hire literally everyone, all ages, all lifestyles, all races, etc..

Which should indicate that for most people, there should be more than enough incentive for them to pick up a job, if that increases their earnings by 50%. The provisions are not too generous then. Then there must be other factors involved as to why people dont take those jobs.

If a person can't find a job in this city, they aren't looking. So if they live in the middle of a bush and can't find a job, who's fault is that? Live within your means. Beer is roughly $50 a case, probably more since the increase on alcohol tax. Most alcoholics drink about a case a week if they are conservative. That's $2,600/year a nice chunk of that welfare. Water out of the tap is free. I invested in a water filter and it cost me $60/year. I mean I drink coffee and stuff too. But hell, I can't drink like that, I choose to spend my money on other things, either way, I earned it. I also earned that income tax, the PST and GST. I agree we need a certain number of cops. We need disability for people I met first hand that need it and get nothing or very little. We need Employment Insurance to help people get back on their feet. We don't need a long term system for people to live from. It's just an opening. And also, I knew some homeless people that owned boats and houses. Just because they are beggars doesn't mean they are homeles. In Victoria B.C. I knew first hand beggars that lived better than me. They easily make $15/hr sometimes in a busy tourist city, especially if they have an act. They also say "Looking?" and if you say "yea" they ask what you are looking for, and whatever it is they get a cut from the supplier. They take you to him, or he doesn't exist, but they convince you to give the money up front and wait outside.

You are getting close to what we call an atomistic erroneous assumption. Just because you did, doesnt mean everyone can do the same to the same effect. You say everyone can move to the city and get jobs, yet all studies I've seen always show that unemployment is higher in urban than rural areas. You give examples of a workplace or two, and what a few entrepeneurial beggars does. Ok, that can solve the problem for some. What about the rest? The resons for unemployemtn are many and complex. Rarely, there is found any "lazy-effect" as to why people wont work. Actually, studies in Europe has shown that unemployed have a higher work motivation and ethics than actually employed.

Of course there exists some leeches, I have never said there didn't. The question is how widespread and serious it is. If you can find some empirical studies on what the numbers might be, I would be most interested. But some scary welfare abuse tales do not scare me, and I dont think that people should have to be rolling in poverty and misery to get any kind of assistance. That some can cheat that, ok, there are leeches in any system. But if the general result of the sytem is a benefit and helps a lot more people, well, is it that bad?

As a disclaimer, I must say I know little of the canadian system. I have read a lot of comparative studies on welfare states, but canada is never one of them. So for all I know, something can be very wrong with your specific system and the way it works. My defence is for welfare systems in general, and de-scandalizing the ordinary recipients of welfare provisions, who usually are in such a place that they can be considered to truly deserve it. Which is why I would be very interested if you can dig up any studies, articles or numbers describing the canadian system today. If you dont want to, I wont force you, I know it can be quite a lot of work to dig up stuff like that.

Peace
Dan

lalalalaaaaaaaa

OutOfBreath wrote:

The resons for unemployemtn are many and complex. Rarely, there is found any "lazy-effect" as to why people wont work.

The lazy effect is rarely found because it's very difficult to show or prove. You can't ask 100 people "Is the reason you're unemployed due to laziness?", and expect to get accurate data for some study.

A better study would be to find people who are not on welfare, but who live in an area where there is a high percentage of welfare recipients, and ask them about it. Then you will get some accurate data. I don't have a study like that, but I do know myself and other people I've talked to who live in such areas. And none of them say "rarely do I see lazy people leeching off the welfare system". However, none of them say "Welfare is only for lazy people". But it's clear there is a problem with it, and it needs to be reformed more than it has been.

And as someone mentioned before, corporate welfare is a lot worse, and gets little attention. That's why the social welfare issue is thrown in our faces all the time. It's complex, and it keeps our eyes off the major welfare leechers: corporations.

Earthgirl

Ahnimus wrote:

I think that says it all right there. A single employable individual working at minimum wage, which is like $7.50/hr for 40 hours per week minus their lunch breaks 3.5 hours makes $14,235/year, now subtract CPP, Income Tax and STD/LTD and it's about $12,000/year and that person is working. So it makes complete sense to me that a single employable person only gets $4,000 - $8,000 on welfare. They should technically be staying in a shelter and going to Labour Ready to find work and not sucking the system dry.

A couple with two children on welfare in Nunavut receives $36,325/year? That's rediculous, why are they on welfare to begin with? and secondly, I know a guy working 3 jobs to feed 4 kids and he doesn't make that much. The guy doesn't have a life, he works all the time. Thanks to these people no doubt.

just so you know.. I worked in child services in the North West Territories for quite a while and the reason the rates are higher in Nunavut is because the cost of living is double if not triple up north. I had a 2 bedroom apartment in 1990-95 which cost me 1500.00 a month. When the ice road was out milk cost up to 10 dollars a jug. It is an isolated province, it costs an arm and a leg to ship things up to the north because almost all of it is flown in. In the remote north they do not have easy access to fresh dairy, fruit or vegetables. You can not drive to other communities you must fly.. unless of course you drive from YEllowknife to Hay River which is the next town and that is about 5-6 hours away. Just to give you all an idea of the north. It costs about 700.00 just to fly from Yellowknife to Edmonton, the closest city. If you are trying to fly from Inuvik or Iqualiut to yellowknife you are looking at about 500.00 or more dollars. It is very very expensive up north.

Earthgirl

another point I'd like to make..
my brother has worked for CPRail for the past 28 years, last January 2005 he suffered a brain injury and is unable to work. CPRail does not have long term disability, his benefits ran out in October of 2005. He lives alone on an acreage that has been in our family since the early 1900's. It costs a lot to look after a lot of property, not to mention the taxes. My brother is a proud person and declined to be on welfare, but he has every right to collect it when he has no funds coming in nor does his company have long term benefits and Canada disability pension will not cover him because they said, altho he can not work at CPRail, he can work some where pushing a broom around. So what do people like my brother do?
It has come to the point that we are going to be selling the land that has been in our family for so long just so he can survive for the rest of his life. that's sad.