Welfare Whiners

Ahnimus

cbc wrote:

Single employable person:

N.B. - $3,427
N.L. - $8,198
Person with disability:

Alta. - $7,851
Ont. - $12,057
Lone parent with one child:

Alta. - $12,326
N.L. - $16,181
Couple with two children:

N.B. - $17,567
P.E.I. - $21,213
The income figures reported from the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut were higher than those in the provinces. However, the cost of living is higher in northern regions, so any benefit of bigger cheques is lost.

A single person on welfare in N.W.T. receives $13,610 per year, while a couple with two children in Nunavut receive $36,325.

I think that says it all right there. A single employable individual working at minimum wage, which is like $7.50/hr for 40 hours per week minus their lunch breaks 3.5 hours makes $14,235/year, now subtract CPP, Income Tax and STD/LTD and it's about $12,000/year and that person is working. So it makes complete sense to me that a single employable person only gets $4,000 - $8,000 on welfare. They should technically be staying in a shelter and going to Labour Ready to find work and not sucking the system dry.

A couple with two children on welfare in Nunavut receives $36,325/year? That's rediculous, why are they on welfare to begin with? and secondly, I know a guy working 3 jobs to feed 4 kids and he doesn't make that much. The guy doesn't have a life, he works all the time. Thanks to these people no doubt.

surferdude

My favorite part is how it is the provinces that can least afford and have the lowest cost of living offer the highest welfare rates.

That said, Alberta and BC need to raise their rates, and especially provide more support for the working poor. Canada also needs to come up with a definition for poverty that relies on a basket of goods type measurement rather than income distribution.

thankyougrandma

damn i might consider filing those welfare papers, will make a lot of money!!!

Seriously is there a link? i'd like to read more...

_Crazy_Mary_

Ahnimus wrote:

I think that says it all right there. A single employable individual working at minimum wage, which is like $7.50/hr for 40 hours per week minus their lunch breaks 3.5 hours makes $14,235/year, now subtract CPP, Income Tax and STD/LTD and it's about $12,000/year and that person is working. So it makes complete sense to me that a single employable person only gets $4,000 - $8,000 on welfare. They should technically be staying in a shelter and going to Labour Ready to find work and not sucking the system dry.

A couple with two children on welfare in Nunavut receives $36,325/year? That's rediculous, why are they on welfare to begin with? and secondly, I know a guy working 3 jobs to feed 4 kids and he doesn't make that much. The guy doesn't have a life, he works all the time. Thanks to these people no doubt.

What the hell kind of lunch breaks are you people taking up there?! 3.5 hours for a 40 hour work weeK? :eek:

Ahnimus

I just think we need to seriously rething our welfare system. I've known way too many people that abuse it and laugh about it. While those of us paying into it are struggling just as much. If these lazy sacks of crap would get out and look for a job, or maybe move from Nunavut to somewhere that has Jobs (like I was forced to do) then we wouldn't need a fucking welfare system or we could make welfare better for those that genuinely need it. I personally don't want to give anymore hand-outs to low-life scum that shoots smack all day and barely has enough will power to change the channel on their wide-screen HDTV. Most of these welfare bastards are dealing drugs too.

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

Ahnimus

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

What the hell kind of lunch breaks are you people taking up there?! 3.5 hours for a 40 hour work weeK? :eek:

Hmm my bad, that should be 2.5 hours.

Ahnimus

thankyougrandma wrote:

damn i might consider filing those welfare papers, will make a lot of money!!!

Seriously is there a link? i'd like to read more...

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/08/24/welfare-report.html

_Crazy_Mary_

ok, I get it. lol

welfare systems do need to be revised, I agree with you there.

tybird

Are Welfare whiners like Welfare Mothers?..........you know, do they make better lovers???

Collin

tybird wrote:

Are Welfare whiners like Welfare Mothers?..........you know, do they make better lovers???

Ahnimus

tybird wrote:

Are Welfare whiners like Welfare Mothers?..........you know, do they make better lovers???

A welfare mother IMO is one of two people:
A) A woman who had a child with a guy that left her or died
A woman that carelessly became pregnant through lack of birth control

The canadian federal government has provided funded daycare services for single mothers for decades. Enabling those single mothers to work through the day and look after their homes and kids in the evening, just like any other person. Except, it's voluntary, so literally no one uses it. Everyone prefers a free ride and when that doesn't afford them a yacht they complain about it. Well I got news sister, I work full time and make twice minimum wage and I don't own a yacht. I don't even own a house or a car and that's all due to my own lack of budgeting. The same way their situtation is a result of their lack of birth control and willingness to work.

tybird

Ahnimus wrote:

A welfare mother IMO is one of two people:
A) A woman who had a child with a guy that left her or died
A woman that carelessly became pregnant through lack of birth control

The canadian federal government has provided funded daycare services for single mothers for decades. Enabling those single mothers to work through the day and look after their homes and kids in the evening, just like any other person. Except, it's voluntary, so literally no one uses it. Everyone prefers a free ride and when that doesn't afford them a yacht they complain about it. Well I got news sister, I work full time and make twice minimum wage and I don't own a yacht. I don't even own a house or a car and that's all due to my own lack of budgeting. The same way their situtation is a result of their lack of birth control and willingness to work.

A moment of levity..............it's a paraphrase from a old Neil Young song.

Ahnimus

tybird wrote:

A moment of levity..............it's a paraphrase from a old Neil Young song.

Oh...

JOEJOEJOE

Ahnimus wrote:

I just think we need to seriously rething our welfare system. I've known way too many people that abuse it and laugh about it. While those of us paying into it are struggling just as much. If these lazy sacks of crap would get out and look for a job, or maybe move from Nunavut to somewhere that has Jobs (like I was forced to do) then we wouldn't need a fucking welfare system or we could make welfare better for those that genuinely need it. I personally don't want to give anymore hand-outs to low-life scum that shoots smack all day and barely has enough will power to change the channel on their wide-screen HDTV. Most of these welfare bastards are dealing drugs too.

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

narc on him!

Ahnimus

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

narc on him!

Yea, but that's not my job. I can rat out one guy, but what about the other thousands. We need a better system than relying on people like me to rat people out.

brain of c

tybird wrote:

Are Welfare whiners like Welfare Mothers?..........you know, do they make better lovers???

yes.

and rust never sleeps.

Ahnimus

I meant to say in the original post aswell, in the original article some people were complaining about Welfare not giving enough money to recipients.

JOEJOEJOE

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, but that's not my job. I can rat out one guy, but what about the other thousands. We need a better system than relying on people like me to rat people out.

Well, if the system can't be fixed, it is up to everybody to rat out the offenders...it may just be a band-aid fix, but it will hopefully discourage future cheats!

OutOfBreath

Is it so bad that people actually can get by on welfare provisions? I am usually unimpressed by the abuse tales. Sure, they happen, and those kind of people are out there. But they are vastly outnumbered by those who "genuinely" need it. 36000$ for a couple with 2 children and no income in a northern district would actually need it me thinks. That would be a bit above one minimum wage over here at least. But I know we have high low salaries, and lower high salaries.

And as a sidenote, I am reading a lot of studies and literature on unemployment and poverty, as I am writing my master's on that. And one comparative finding across europe is that generosity of benefits have no influence whatsoever to whether people take jobs or not. When it comes to unemployment benefits, it is the duration, not amount that counts. For instance, scandinavia have generally much more generous benefits than other european nations, and we have lower unemployment and higher participation in the workforce than almost anyone else. Then again it must be said that a lot of the benefits are geared towards employment, and many of the orderings is there to make it easier for people to work, like kindergartens (90% coverage and increasing), generous childcare benefits etc. But also unemployment benefits are pretty good, as they are based on percentage of former income the past 1 or 3 years.

Leeches will always be there. And you are allowed to think that they're lazy good-for-nothings. But the way to deal with them is not necessarily through structural change, if the structure otherwise helps out a ton of people. Perfection is impossible.

That being said, I have little knowledge about the specific canadian system, and it could be that it needs an overhaul for all I know. My points were of a more general kind.

Peace
Dan

PaperPlates

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, but that's not my job. I can rat out one guy, but what about the other thousands. We need a better system than relying on people like me to rat people out.

ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

tonywellington

This is hardly much money contrary to a lot of this angry man rhetoric here. Not mentioned in those statistics is that in Alberta the number represents a 50% cut in real dollars after inflation in ten years and does not provide enough money to meet necessities (food, shelter and clothing). Ontario and other richer privnices are just as bad. If we are helping people get back on their feet should we not allow them to eat? Methinks Canada can afford it, we do run a surplus, we did just cut corporate tax rates..... we can do better than this. Welfare recipients get less real dollars today than they did twenty years ago, this does not factor inflation. Imagine making less dollars twenty years from now than you do today. With rates this low (and they are low according to the National Council on Welfare) we can't expect people to improve their condition when they can't support themselves. Jobs, training and opportunity do not go looking for people on welfare. They need help, thus the term "assistance."

As for this welfare mother nonsense, I don't hear any proposals here about going after child support payments or dead beat dads who left these women in the first place. So the condom broke.... fuck her? Is that our policy? Why not give the dad the yacht and her the boot? Better yet we could just publicly shame the poor... oh wait already do by condeming them to the cycle of poverty we support. There is also very little government supported child care and no yachts being handed out in this country to welfare recipients.

There is not that much fraud in the system and all statistical evidence points that out. The "I know a guy who cheats" is as silly as the cry of the smoker, "my Grandpa lived to be 100 and smoked every day". The majority do not fall into these categories. If the suggestion is to cut them off, then I ask where are you sending these people? The streets, jail? addiction, abuse? Sounds like even more money than trying to help them get back on their feet.

OutOfBreath

tonywellington wrote:

This is hardly much money contrary to a lot of this angry man rhetoric here. Not mentioned in those statistics is that in Alberta the number represents a 50% cut in real dollars after inflation in ten years and does not provide enough money to meet necessities (food, shelter and clothing). Ontario and other richer privnices are just as bad. If we are helping people get back on their feet should we not allow them to eat? Methinks Canada can afford it, we do run a surplus, we did just cut corporate tax rates..... we can do better than this. Welfare recipients get less real dollars today than they did twenty years ago, this does not factor inflation. Imagine making less dollars twenty years from now than you do today. With rates this low (and they are low according to the National Council on Welfare) we can't expect people to improve their condition when they can't support themselves. Jobs, training and opportunity do not go looking for people on welfare. They need help, thus the term "assistance."

As for this welfare mother nonsense, I don't hear any proposals here about going after child support payments or dead beat dads who left these women in the first place. So the condom broke.... fuck her? Is that our policy? Why not give the dad the yacht and her the boot? Better yet we could just publicly shame the poor... oh wait already do by condeming them to the cycle of poverty we support. There is also very little government supported child care and no yachts being handed out in this country to welfare recipients.

There is not that much fraud in the system and all statistical evidence points that out. The "I know a guy who cheats" is as silly as the cry of the smoker, "my Grandpa lived to be 100 and smoked every day". The majority do not fall into these categories. If the suggestion is to cut them off, then I ask where are you sending these people? The streets, jail? addiction, abuse? Sounds like even more money than trying to help them get back on their feet.

I hear you. Social assistance can easily be the cheap way out, compared to incarceration costs and crime rates.

Btw, was that canadian dollars in the example? And how many canadian are there to the us dollar? My comment about the level of compensation was based on the assumption of us $.

Peace
Dan

even flow?

Ahnimus wrote:

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

Then why don't you do your part and report the piece of shit that is ripping you and I off. Do your part to help out and get rid of the people you despise. It would be one less scumbag for you to bitch about.

Don't forget that when welfare and UI were launched there was a good reason for it. Of course with free money comes scams. It is in some human nature to want everything for nothing.

tonywellington

OutOfBreath wrote:

I hear you. Social assistance can easily be the cheap way out, compared to incarceration costs and crime rates.

Btw, was that canadian dollars in the example? And how many canadian are there to the us dollar? My comment about the level of compensation was based on the assumption of us $.

Peace
Dan

The figures are for Canadian Dollars which are almost equal to US right now. I think our dollar is between 87 and 90 cents US.

Ahnimus

Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.

A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.

While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.

I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"

He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.

The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.

tonywellington

Ahnimus wrote:

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

This does not mean they don't exist. I have worked with poverty groups and can say these people are out there and there are more of them than these theives you are mad about. Now that you have stopped slamming women for getting pregnant, I see you are on to minorities. How about we deal with root causes of poverty instead of this anti-poor rhetoric. It ain't so bad for white men that we don't hold the top paying jobs and own the richest companies just yet. We are pretty well represented in government too, so I guess white guys are a pretty strong lobby group still. Women still make about 75 cents for every dollar we do in equal jobs.

I will leave it at that. Most people are not on the system that long. With EI as it the only program many can get is welfare, this does not make them theives. It means they need training for new jobs. That is what the system is for, it's a Canadian value to help the poor. Fraud is fraud, but you seem to be suggesting we get rid of all social assistance and that seems really short sighted to me.

I don't personally know a person with AIDS right now should I suggest it isn't real? Should we cut off all research and spending for that as well? Just cause I don't know any astronauts does mean there aren't any.

farfromglorified

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, well, I've met a lot of people on welfare through my life. All of the welfare recipients I have met could work, they don't even look for work. I've yet to meet one person that actually needs it.

A few years ago I lost my job in Orillia and spent a bit of time looking around for another job. My suspicions were true that I wouldn't be able to find a decent job in Orillia, the gas stations wouldn't even higher me. So I moved to a bigger city and stayed with my cousin for a few months. It took about 2 months to find work here, after about a month I went to the welfare office and pleaded with them for some kind of assistance. After a very long process they granted me $500 with no future assistance. When I started working finally, they sent me a letter saying I have to pay it all back, and I did.

While I was in the welfare office, literally everyone I saw could be working in some job or another and even on minimum wage be making more than they were on welfare. But, they obviously didn't want to make the effort to get a job. The Tim Horton's by my place is always hiring, they are hiring right now. But most of the applicants turn out to be kids because the welfare recipients can't swallow their pride and do that kind of job.

I've talked to a few people about welfare since I heard about this problem. A guy I spoke with last night said he went to welfare and after jumping through some hoops he was told "if you were a minority or a woman we could help you out, but since you are a white guy there is nothing we can do"

He said he knew a guy on disability for his back, but the guy would go snow-mobiling all the time.

The security guard at my work says his neighbour and his wife collect welfare and they are seen drinking beer every day.

I've yet to have one experience or meet someone who has had an experience with someone who genuinely needs to be on welfare.

On the news last night they said 500,000 of the people on welfare are children. That's not exactly right, those kids legal guardians are on welfare and the kids are under their umbrella. I'd rather spend the money on the kids than the legal guardians.

My mother has worked for the welfare system in the state of Michigan for over 30 years. While I am anti-welfare myself, there are certainly many people who need welfare. I simply do not believe that one man's need dictates another man's obligation. Regardless, I've met them, seen them and talked to them. Even more troubling are the children I've seen as well who are the real victims of poverty. Poor people certainly do exist.

Ahnimus

tonywellington wrote:

This does not mean they don't exist. I have worked with poverty groups and can say these people are out there and there are more of them than these theives you are mad about. Now that you have stopped slamming women for getting pregnant, I see you are on to minorities. How about we deal with root causes of poverty instead of this anti-poor rhetoric. It ain't so bad for white men that we don't hold the top paying jobs and own the richest companies just yet. We are pretty well represented in government too, so I guess white guys are a pretty strong lobby group still. Women still make about 75 cents for every dollar we do in equal jobs.

I will leave it at that. Most people are not on the system that long. With EI as it the only program many can get is welfare, this does not make them theives. It means they need training for new jobs. That is what the system is for, it's a Canadian value to help the poor. Fraud is fraud, but you seem to be suggesting we get rid of all social assistance and that seems really short sighted to me.

I don't personally know a person with AIDS right now should I suggest it isn't real? Should we cut off all research and spending for that as well? Just cause I don't know any astronauts does mean there aren't any.

I understand your logic in that last segment, however, television has shown us those things, but fails to show us a person in genuine need of welfare assistance.

What constitutes a person that genuinely needs welfare assistance? Would that be a person that drops out of school and fails to pursue any further skills and knowledge to secure a career? A person that carelessly puts their future in the hands of their neighbours because they can't take care of themselves?

I know several people that work several jobs to raise their families. They would be more than willing to offer one of their jobs up to have that welfare money back.

The problem seems to be that these individuals choose to live in cities where the population exceeds the available positions. Or at least for their skill sets. Or these people as you said, do not have any skills. So why should we just give them fish, when teaching them to fish will feed them for a lifetime?

Too many of the assistance programs are voluntary and that relies on the individuals motivation, which if they had sufficient motivation, they wouldn't be on welfare to begin with.

Now, in defense, I am not targetting minorities, women or single mothers. Those are typically the people collecting welfare, I am focusing on those people that are on welfare. There are plenty of single mothers, natives, blacks, chinese, etc.. that have full-time jobs and work for a living.

my2hands

Ahnimus wrote:

I know a guy that lives in a massive house on the water front, owns 2 trucks and 2 cars, has 3 kids a wife and makes a lot of money. From welfare, drugs, and identity theft. It's amazing the authorities never catch on.

and you help enable this by not mentioning it to him or turning him in...so if your not willing to alert the proper authorities about fraudulant behavior stop "whining"

Ahnimus

my2hands wrote:

and you help enable this by not mentioning it to him or turning him in...so if your not willing to alert the proper authorities about fraudulant behavior stop "whining"

At the time, he was my best customer. While I was a struggling entrepreneur, trying to make a living. Turning this guy in would have been a kick in my own face.

Isn't it sad that a business owner is at the mercy of a welfare recipient?

my2hands

i know this a "canadian" thread about welfare... but to chime in as an american...i am much more concerned with corporate welfare and the constant massive abuse... i am also more concerned with nearly 70% of my tax dollars going to military spending

those are the real problems...not the poor mother living in public housing eating PBJ to survive with 2 hungry children being lead astray into a world of drugs and violence because their housing project is like downtown bagdad

peace