Israel's Next War?
Ahnimus
Posts: 10,560
In "Israel's Next War?" FRONTLINE goes deep inside the world of militant Jewish radicals who pose a grave new threat to Israeli security and, potentially, to the region. "The dream of these extremists"—to blow up the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, one of the most important holy sites in the Muslim world—"should give us sleepless nights," says former Israeli Security Chief Avi Dichter. "Jewish terror is liable to create a serious strategic threat that will turn the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into a conflict between thirteen million Jews and a billion Muslims all over the world."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/view/#rest
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/view/#rest
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Man, a bunch of Kahanists made a massive bomb and intended to blow up a bunch of little girls at a school.
Why do we hear so much about radical Islamic terrorists, when radical Jewish terrorists are bombing schools? Why don't we ever hear about that?
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
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They are a non-profit organization, they don't spind things like the corporately owned mainstream media. You should understand this. They are just reporting on something that is happening and this is admitted by Israel. How can you say "take it with a grain of salt"? Because it's not about ARAB extremists?
Being non-profit has nothing to do with not pushing a certain political viewpoint. In fact, many non-profits tend to sway one way or another quite often. I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to this story…I'm just saying…I'm not naive enough to think that FRONTLINE is totally un-biased either.
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I never said watching it was wrong. I said I take it with a BIG GRAIN OF SALT. I even admitted in a round about way that I watch it too, and that I think it's well done.
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I guess you haven't watched it. And when you take things with a big grain of salt, do you investigate them further? I'm not trying to be hostile here. Just saying, it implies that you don't fully believe what they are saying. If you have seen it then it's clear there is no politics involved. It's just showing you a terrorist group. It just happens to be from Israel. How that figures into politics is up to you. If you automatically assume that this is a liberal perspective then your perspective is tainted. So I'm assuming you haven't watched it.
Here is Noam Federman's website
Here is the Israeli governments recognition of Kahanism as terrorism
"88. The Committee welcomes the outlawing by Israel, after the massacre in Hebron, of the extremist
Jewish groups "Kach" and "Kahana Chai" as terrorist organizations and indications that Israel will
take similar action against other terrorist groups and movements."
Furthermore Kahanism has a political arm. A terroist/milita and a political arm. Hmm where have we heard that before? I'm starting to sense a bit of hipocracy in Israel's actions. I don't know. But it's typical, the western world has the highest crime rates and concentration of wealth. Yet, we continue to preach our ways.
2005
In February the Knesset votes 59-40 to evacuate all Israeli settlers residing in 21 settlements in Gaza and to compensate the settlers (The Gaza withdrawal plan, as well as the evacuation of four small settlements in the West Bank, is scheduled to begin in July.)
In March Israel approves the expansion of Maalah Adumim, the most populous settlement in the West Bank and located seven miles from Jerusalem. 3,500 new housing units will be built, making it the largest settlement housing project in years.
Also in March, the government-sponsored report, "Opinion Concerning Unauthorized Outposts," is released. Authored by former state prosecutor Talya Sason, it reveals that agencies throughout the Israeli government were aware of the establishment of illegal settler outposts in the West Bank and Gaza starting in the mid-1990s, and in some cases these agencies supported those outposts financially. Sason estimates there are roughly 105 unauthorized outposts.
We don't hear about it because Israel polices its people like a country is supposed to do and breaks up such organizations. Like you said they intended to blow up a school, but they never got to because the Israeli police arrested them first. We hear about Islamic terror because they actually kill people.
Wow, you astound me yet again with your utter lack of common sense. As your own post notes Israel outlawed these groups, and their political arm, the Kach political party, has also been outlawed for being openly racist. This is not at all familiar, if what you mean by that comment is to allude to a group like Hezbollah or Hamas. These groups are not banned in either their political form, let alone in their terrorist form, even though they are racist and genocidal. Furthermore, their countries have failed to police and contain these groups and have allowed them to kill hundreds of Israelis. How many organized terror attacks have these Jewish groups carried out recently? Zero, none. Because Israel is a real, responsible country that controls its citizens, rather than issuing public condemnations while doing nothing to actually prevent terror from occuring.
This is the intent to kill which isn't very far off. It's also stealing palestinian land and shooting at natives that wonder by. This is a political movement, which is quite threatening if it ever rises to power. The actions by Israel now only facilitates this type of racism. Olmert could be a closet Kahanist. It's hipocritical to hold another nation responsible for not eliminating racism and terrorism when they themselves are guilty. Israel receives billions of aid from it's allies, while we know the arab world is poorer and is criticized for it's connections. Relatively speaking Lebanon does what is within it's ability to eliminate Hezbollah and Israel does what's in it's ability to eliminate Kahane. But Israel would not tolerate Lebanon killing 400 or more Israeli civilians to take down all the Kahanists.
Again you spew out inane garbage. It is a political movement that is banned, and can only exist underground. It can't rise to power because it can not by law run for office, BECAUSE it is deemed to be racist by Israel. How exactly is Israel facilitating this type of racism by banning Kahana's political party for being racist? And how is it hypocritical to ask other nations to eliminate terrorism and racism when you arrest anyone involved in terrorist activity in your own country, and ban political parties with racist platforms? Lebanon does what is in its power to do to eliminate Hezbollah? That's funny because Hezbollah has representatives in Lebanon's government, and the Lebanese army/police have never even tried to act against Hezbollah.
It only exists underground eh? lol
It really doesn't matter if they are banned or not. They have public support in some form or another, they exist, which means there is a potential. The same kind of potential Iran has for making nukes. You look at something like Iran and say with all certainty that is what he wants to do. But you look at this like it doesn't exist. lol. With Israel's actions and the ongoing threat of Syrian or Iranian involvement. It'd be a small stretch to say Olmert is carrying out the Kahanist ideaology. I guess it depends on your perspective though. If you aren't the president of Iran you don't have a clue what his intentions are, the same applies to Olmert, it's all speculation. I'm pointing out an aspect of Israeli society that no doubt is a burden to Israel, however it does exist and shows the imperfections that Israel shares with it's neighbours. If you live in N. America you probably know what the Hell's Angels are. They don't seem very threatening because you think they just ride their motorbikes and only occasionally kill people. But I know from first hand experience there is much more to them. The same applies to Crypts and Bloods, major gangs in the Toronto area, but can be found as far west as B.C. Most people don't know that. We also have a lot of racial gangs. A girl in Victoria was killed for trying to leave her gang. I was attacked multiple times while I was pegged.
What do you think motivated Hamas to capture a soldier?
Maybe it has something to do with the push for a democratic election. Then when Hamas won, 145 million of funding from the U.S. and E.U. were cut from palestine. And Israel refused to pay Hamas 55 million in taxes it collected for the PA. Maybe the 250,000+ Israeli settlers on palestinian land, terrorizing their people. Maybe their is a hell of a lot more to it than they hate Israel. You must be pretty blind to think that the problems in palestine are the result of pure hatred and evil instead of the state of humanity in palestine. Don't tell me it's a religious doctrine because that's exactly what Kahanism is, it doesn't have the level of support because of the quality of life in Israel. It's pretty pathetic to expect a make-shift and undermined government in palestine to combat that kind of social problem without proper funding or international support. Due to the history of the region the hatred runs deep on both sides and it's only getting worse because of this kind of ignorance.
You attract more bees with honey
You attract more enemies with bombs
The thing is - we have them under control via some special units who catch & dismiss them before they become a real threat. If only others would do the same...
No, it does matter that they are banned. Yes there is always a potential, but that's beside the point. It is not the same sort of "potential" that Iran might make nukes. Iran is making nukes. It is the government that is doing it, with the support of the Iranian people. Kahanists are not the government, and they have no support outside of their own circles, which are exceedingly small and entirely marginal to normal Israeli politics. I don't look at this like it doesn't exist. I look at it as it is, which is a group of crazies who are kept under control by a responsible government. Olmert is not carrying out the Kahanist ideology. If he were he would have killed or deported the Palestinians as well as Israel's Arab citizens, he would have destroyed the Dome of the Rock, and he'd be trying to conquer Jordan so as to create Greater Israel. He is doing none of these (although I wouldn't put it past you to claim he was, or perhaps he has the POTENTIAL to do it? lol) I've never said that Israel is a perfect society. What I am saying is that Israel, unlike its neighbors, is responsible in terms of controling its extremist elements. But perhaps that's too subtle a distinction for you to grasp.
Not a threat eh? They live underground? I think I'll take the word of Israel's former Security Chief instead of you, whoever the hell you are.
"The dream of these extremists"—to blow up the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, one of the most important holy sites in the Muslim world—"should give us sleepless nights," says former Israeli Security Chief Avi Dichter. "Jewish terror is liable to create a serious strategic threat that will turn the Israeli-Palestinian conflict into a conflict between thirteen million Jews and a billion Muslims all over the world."
Yeah, if they ever manage to carry out an attack. If and when Kahanists ever blow something up then we can talk about this. Until then how about you stop trying to smear Israel with something that is truly not relevent at the moment.
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It is not relevent at all, actually. The point is every state has these kind of groups, but in Israel we have special unites who are able to locate, catch, disarm & dismiss them BEFORE they're becoming a real threat. And when I say real, I mean well orgenized - ready to act groups. What dayan means is: it seems like Ahnimus is doing everything he can to miss the essence of the artical. Instead, he chose to focus on the fact Israel has such groups, a fact that nobody was trying to argue about.
It's just a part of what Israel is. Remember the Munich Massacre? Remember how Israel repsonded? Fight terrorism with terrorism I suppose. You have to know by now that Israel isn't pure and violence doesn't stop violence.
You are doing it again, we never said Israel is pure, just that at least we are controling etc' these kind of phenomenons. And what Munich has to do with this artical? It's like you're doing everything you can (going way off topic, for example) to see only the bad things around here.
What do you see when you look at Hizbullah or the PA? All bad things? I'm just levelling the playing field.
Hizbullah=only bad things. All the talks about some social netwarks of them - it is only for their Shi'ite supporters in southern Lebanon. They took advantage that the Lebanese govt did not do too much for these people, so they got their support via that way. And it is not just me saying this, you can find it also in Hizbullah inverviews. You know what? I think the best thing is to ask ruud, the Lebanese civilian who once said he would heve shot Nasralla in the head if only he had the opportunity to do so.
Amazing, the topic was "Israel is so far controling inner radical groups", and somehow all you could see is Hizbulla's good actions and Israel bad actions in Munich (?!?). Sure, you are only doing some research and don't pick sides. Yeah, right. The minimum you can do is stay on-topic, ok?
Dude, obviously I am not condoning the Munich Massacre. What the PLO did was wrong, really wrong. But Israel's response was no different. It's a good example because it's the same thing happening now. Israel's retaliation to wrong is wrong and we know that doesn't make it right. That's what I am saying. Israel has the right to defend itself, but not this way. This is just rediculous and Mossad and the Munich Massacre should have taught us all a few things, especially Israel. This isn't the way to peace.