Does Israel use Depleted Uranium?

Ahnimus

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches%20by%20Israeli%20leaders/2001/Statement%20by%20Dep%20FM%20Michael%20Melchior%20to%20the%20Durban
These states would have us believe that they are anti-Zionist, not antisemitic, but again and again this lie is disproved. What are the despicable caricatures of Jews that fill the Arab press and are being circulated at this Conference: what are the vicious libels so freely invented and disseminated by our enemies - about the use of poison gas, or depleted uranium bullets, or injecting babies with the Aids virus - if not the reincarnation of age-old antisemitic canards?

http://wwwterrorista.mfa.gov.il/mfa/government/speeches%20by%20israeli%20leaders/2002/press%20conference%20with%20fm%20shimon%20peres%20and%20major%20ge
want to speak about the military situation around the compound of Arafat. There is a lot of disinformation that is given by the Palestinians - not a very new phenomenon. Remember their saying that Israeli Mossad is responsible for the demolition of the Twin Towers in New York, that Israeli soldiers are giving poisoned candies to the Palestinian children, etc. They also say that Israel is using uranium.

http://www.nic.gov.il/MFA/Archive/Articles/1996/WHO%20WILL%20SUBDUE%20THE%20KATYUSHA%20-%2030-Apr-96
"Phalanx" guns, which are in service in both the US and Israeli navies, and are designed to intercept very short-range sea-to-sea missiles. The heart of the system is a radar-directed "gatling" gun with six 20 mm barrels. When a sea-to-sea missile approaches a ship, at a height of only a few meters, and generally at sub-sonic speed, the radar locks onto the missile and immediately activates the cannon that fires a "lead screen" of shells made from depleted uranium, which hit the missile and explode it.

http://www.mod.gov.il/pages/mafat/pdfs/2005-11.pdf
Land Based Phalanx Takes Aim At Rockets, Artillery and Mortars.

All Israeli government websites

Ahnimus

That last link is in Hebrew, except the text I posted, if someone like Shiraz or Jsand can please translate it?

rebornFixer

Possibly, but I've never read anything to indicate that they do. Sure, weapons like the Phalanx CAN fire DU rounds. That doesn't mean the Isrealis do use said rounds. In all honesty, Israel (these days) usually fights an enemy who doesn't have much armour, which is what DU is intended for ... Its for penetrating tanks and other armoured vehicles.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

Possibly, but I've never read anything to indicate that they do. Sure, weapons like the Phalanx CAN fire DU rounds. That doesn't mean the Isrealis do use said rounds. In all honesty, Israel (these days) usually fights an enemy who doesn't have much armour, which is what DU is intended for ... Its for penetrating tanks and other armoured vehicles.

It's also good for contaminating regions.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

It's also good for contaminating regions.

Debatable.
There would certainly be better ways.

RockinInCanada

Would DU, if fired near the border, potentially contanimate areas of Israel as well?

Just a curosity question.

rebornFixer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Would DU, if fired near the border, potentially contanimate areas of Israel as well?

Just a curosity question.

Logically, yes ... Assuming that DU is an effective contaminant, it probably should. It would seep into the water table and wind up in Israeli soil, or fragments could be blown back across the border.

RockinInCanada

reborncareerist wrote:

Logically, yes ... Assuming that DU is an effective contaminant, it probably should. It would seep into the water table and wind up in Israeli soil, or fragments could be blown back across the border.

Yeah I thought that...curious on just how radiocative it really is? Eg. What is the rate of decay...percentage of it that has decayed?

Fun science type of questions....

Ahnimus

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Yeah I thought that...curious on just how radiocative it really is? Eg. What is the rate of decay...percentage of it that has decayed?

Fun science type of questions....

The half-life of Uranium-232 is 4.5 billion years I believe. Let me collect some info and I'll post it.

rebornFixer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Yeah I thought that...curious on just how radiocative it really is? Eg. What is the rate of decay...percentage of it that has decayed?

Fun science type of questions....

My understanding is that it does release radiation, but not enough to actually make anyone sick. Of course, those results come from American studies and they could be biased ... I am not sure how well done the studies were. The UN deems DU to be too toxic for routine use on the battlefield, but the UN is not a scientific body and did not use scientific evidence to reach this verdict ... It used a vote of member nations.
There has been a link proposed between DU and soldiers and Iraqi civilians getting sick and showing high rates of cancer. Indeed, these data seem legit. People in areas where DU was used do seem sicker. However, the link between this illness and DU isn't completely clear. Its correlational ... For example, increased cancer rates in Iraq could conceivably be due to hydrocarbon toxicity, after all the oil fires and such ... Or maybe DU AND the oil fires contribute to the increased rates of illness.
I think the jury is still out on DU ... I am not going to conclude that it is safe, but I think the data are mixed to date.

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

That last link is in Hebrew, except the text I posted, if someone like Shiraz or Jsand can please translate it?

Yeah I pictured you wearing a hamas headband converting faiths...haha

Ahnimus

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/du.htm
In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.
Depleted uranium results from the enriching of natural uranium for use in nuclear reactors. Natural uranium is a slightly radioactive metal that is present in most rocks and soils as well as in many rivers and sea water. Natural uranium consists primarily of a mixture of two isotopes (forms) of uranium, Uranium-235 (U235) and Uranium-238 (U238), in the proportion of about 0.7 and 99.3 percent, respectively. Nuclear reactors require U235 to produce energy, therefore, the natural uranium has to be enriched to obtain the isotope U235 by removing a large part of the U238. Uranium-238 becomes DU, which is 0.7 times as radioactive as natural uranium. Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials.

U-238 Decay Series
http://www.csupomona.edu/~pbsiegel/www/decaychain/U238.html


Photos and Additional Information
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUL20060122&articleId=1777

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

My understanding is that it does release radiation, but not enough to actually make anyone sick. Of course, those results come from American studies and they could be biased ... I am not sure how well done the studies were. The UN deems DU to be too toxic for routine use on the battlefield, but the UN is not a scientific body and did not use scientific evidence to reach this verdict ... It used a vote of member nations.
There has been a link proposed between DU and soldiers and Iraqi civilians getting sick and showing high rates of cancer. Indeed, these data seem legit. People in areas where DU was used do seem sicker. However, the link between this illness and DU isn't completely clear. Its correlational ... For example, increased cancer rates in Iraq could conceivably be due to hydrocarbon toxicity, after all the oil fires and such ... Or maybe DU AND the oil fires contribute to the increased rates of illness.
I think the jury is still out on DU ... I am not going to conclude that it is safe, but I think the data are mixed to date.

All radioactivity is bad for people, we know Uranium is bad, DU is no different.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

All radioactivity is bad for people, we know Uranium is bad, DU is no different.

But the question is whether or not DU provides more harmful radiation exposure than does nature itself ... People are exposed to small amounts of radiation every day. Does DU provide a huge increase in this exposure, and is this increase associated with increased illness?

It certainly seems possible ... And I am not one of those people that thinks Israel needs to use DU weapons. My point was that there is conflicting evidence out there regarding how dangerous DU really is.

rightondude

reborncareerist wrote:

Possibly, but I've never read anything to indicate that they do. Sure, weapons like the Phalanx CAN fire DU rounds. That doesn't mean the Isrealis do use said rounds. In all honesty, Israel (these days) usually fights an enemy who doesn't have much armour, which is what DU is intended for ... Its for penetrating tanks and other armoured vehicles.

If the US is including them in their "aid" to Israel, it is quite possible. They make DU bullets as well. The Israeli's are however using a newly developed nerve gas. It tastes sweet, smells like faintly of mint or nothing, and the originally pure white smoke turns into a black haze. Victims who inhale this smoke go insane and have to be held down at all four limbs on a bed for hours while they moan and convulse in pain, otherwise they will tear their own skin off from the burning itching sensation, or commit suicide to end it all.


That's some bad shit happening right there...

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

But the question is whether or not DU provides more harmful radiation exposure than does nature itself ... People are exposed to small amounts of radiation every day. Does DU provide a huge increase in this exposure, and is this increase associated with increased illness?

It certainly seems possible ... And I am not one of those people that thinks Israel needs to use DU weapons. My point was that there is conflicting evidence out there regarding how dangerous DU really is.

Well, there have been extensive studies into DU, and even if the results were debatable, for safety concerns it should not be used.

rightondude

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Would DU, if fired near the border, potentially contanimate areas of Israel as well?

Just a curosity question.

This stuff has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That is 4.5 billion years from now the ill effects will only be just half of what it is today. The stuff is already way up in the atmosphere worldwide. DU has accounted for the same numer of radioactive atoms as 400,000 Hiroshima's as of 2004 statistics (lower) as well I've seen. I was reading Scientists in North America can measure barium particles from it it in peoples hair from just being outside. It's fucked up.

Ahnimus

rightondude wrote:

This stuff has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That is 4.5 billion years from now the ill effects will only be just half of what it is today. The stuff is already way up in the atmosphere worldwide. DU has accounted for the same numer of radioactive atoms as 400,000 Hiroshima's as of 2004 statistics (lower) as well I've seen. I was reading Scientists in North America can measure barium particles from it it in peoples hair from just being outside. It's fucked up.

Yea, it shouldn't make the difference, but DU use anywhere will affect us here. When Chernobyl melted down 5x the normal radiation was recorded all over the world. That's how quickly and vast it spreads. DU will spread slower and the small amount used is likely to seriously affect one region for a long time, with minor spreading. However, over time of expanded use it will seriously contaminate the entire planet. If it's not bad enough that Iraq is already fucked.

EvilToasterElf

DU represents one of the worst decisions this country has ever made.

Despite the massive amounts of research and studies on soldiers and combatants and civilians pouring in with mutated armless, legless, eyeless babies, massively elevated cancer rates of US, and International soldiers we keep using more and more DU

this will be the real legacy of our foreign policy

EvilToasterElf

EvilToasterElf wrote:

DU represents one of the worst decisions this country has ever made.

Despite the massive amounts of research and studies on soldiers and combatants and civilians pouring in with mutated armless, legless, eyeless babies, massively elevated cancer rates of US, and International soldiers we keep using more and more DU

this will be the real legacy of our foreign policy

here are some articles...

Here's the website of a UK based group trying to ban it, with all of their information.

http://www.cadu.org.uk/

Here is a website supporting DU as the only viable alternative for armor penetrating rounds:

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

Here's a BBC special report, including links to numerous attempts by the EU - countries who have already measured significant amounts of increased uranium particles over their heads, to ban the weapons

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/...um/default.stm

Here's a British Newspaper - The Sunday Herald's Report on how the UK and USA continue to use DU despite the fact that the UN considers them a weapon of mass destruction

http://www.sundayherald.com/32522

...personally though the UN is not the best method of arguing anything - you're bound to encounter some kind of hypocritical fallacy somewhere

Here is an interview with a radiation expert from Berkely who has quite a fine list of credentials:

http://www.universalfriends.org/depleted_uranium.htm

this little tidbit from the article says volumes...

Gulf War soldiers who served in 1991 had normal babies before the Gulf War. [In a study of 251 Gulf War veterans by the Department of Veterans Affairs, it was determined that 67% of the babies born to soldiers after the Gulf War had severe birth defects]. They were born without brains, without eyes, [with] organs missing, without legs or arms, or they had terrible radiation related blood diseases for instance.

Here is an article written by the same woman who was interviewed in the previous link:

http://www.health-now.org/site/artic...08&menu Id=14

This article seems to go off the handle in the conspiracy nut direction but...nonetheless if it's credible it's condemning

http://www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Aug05/200805DU.htm

Please anyone who can find sources to the contrary I'd love to read them, I would love to believe that a few environment nuts are blowing this whole thing out of proportion because it scares the hell out of me - at the current pace we'd have to keep pregnant women in clean rooms for 9 months so they can birth genetically unaltered offspring

If this is true, if the numbers are straight, and the conclusions valid - the continuing use of these weapons may effect every single human being on the planet given enough time - there doesn't seem to be any dearth of situations where these weapons will be used in the near future

Ahnimus

More Information

Radiation Chart
http://www.gsi.de/onTEAM/grafik/1054884094/NuclearChartLaserspectroscopy.png

Video explaining Nuclear Configurations and Radioactive Decay
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8210725549983447275&q=nuclear