The Criminal Mind

rebornFixer

soulsinging wrote:

oh shit. now you've done it. you gave him what he's been looking for this whole a time, a chance to drone on endlessly about how nobody has free wil and nobody makes any choices.

To expunge the false belief, one must first root it out.

Too much intellectualization is a defense mechanism, mind you.

onelongsong

i said this in a thread the other day but i think it deserves repeating here.

for some; this world will never be right. they have an emptiness inside them no amount of drink; drugs; or killing will ever fill. they are mad at the world; just for being born.

soulsinging

reborncareerist wrote:

To expunge the false belief, one must first root it out.

Too much intellectualization is a defense mechanism, mind you.

try explaining that to him. if you can sway him, ill quit groveling to him and switch to you

Ahnimus

There is no evidence that we have free-will.

It's a myth created by theology and permeated by society.

You are the culprits.

soulsinging

onelongsong wrote:

i said this in a thread the other day but i think it deserves repeating here.

for some; this world will never be right. they have an emptiness inside them no amount of drink; drugs; or killing will ever fill. they are mad at the world; just for being born.

that sounds like something doc holliday said in tombstone

Ahnimus

onelongsong wrote:

i said this in a thread the other day but i think it deserves repeating here.

for some; this world will never be right. they have an emptiness inside them no amount of drink; drugs; or killing will ever fill. they are mad at the world; just for being born.

Low seratonin, high testosterone, damage to the limbic system, etc.. etc..

farfromglorified

Ahnimus wrote:

There is no evidence that we have free-will.

Yes, there is. There's no evidence, however, that you understand free-will outside of some magical context.

Free-will extends from your self-awareness. It is your facility to observe your actions and select from the conclusions that exist in your mind.

It's a myth created by theology and permeated by society.

Where'd they get it from?

You are the culprits.

How can there be culprits when everyone is a victim?

farfromglorified

soulsinging wrote:

that sounds like something doc holliday said in tombstone

Huckleberry...............

Ahnimus

farfromglorified wrote:

Yes, there is. There's no evidence, however, that you understand free-will outside of some magical context.

Free-will extends from your self-awareness. It is your facility to observe your actions and select from the conclusions that exist in your mind.

Where'd they get it from?

How can there be culprits when everyone is a victim?

Just read up on it, you will see that there is no evidence. Self-awareness does not account for free-will.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

There is no evidence that we have free-will.

It's a myth created by theology and permeated by society.

You are the culprits.

So assuming this is true ... What do you even have to be unhappy about? And that's a serious question. If no one has ANY free will, then what is the source of lamenting one's life? Why worry about shit that is completely out of one's control?
Free will = a concern for one's life circumstances, and if you tell me that you aren't concerned, you're lying outright. Getting upset about an event, any event, requires free will. Its a choice made by a sentient being. What you might find devastating, someone else might find amusing. I firmly believe that these two people could learn, changing the beliefs that cause their specific reactions. Its hard, but its possible.

Is this "proveable" in a scientific sense? Of course not. And? It is a utilitarian philosophical position. You choose to reject it, using science as your basis.

All this philosophical discussion? Its a defense ... Where are you in all this free will, quoting Einstein weighty discussion stuff? What's Ahnimus really thinking and feeling at this moment? I am not interested in Schopenhauer. I am interested in where you're at, psychologically-speaking. Can you accept that someone else might actually be interested? Not in your book smarts (which are considerable), but in your actual self?

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

Low seratonin, high testosterone, damage to the limbic system, etc.. etc..

ah, pof course! everything is clearer now! well done sir!

im gonna go turn in my free will card. then im gonna torture a kitten and rape a woman. cos i wont be deciding to do those things, it'll be becos ahnimus made me realize how stupid i was being about free will and i can finally express my urges freely!

farfromglorified

Ahnimus wrote:

Just read up on it, you will see that there is no evidence.

Hehe...am I allowed to read this:

http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/PTB6.pdf

Self-awareness does not account for free-will.

Unfortunately for you, it does. Perhaps if you thought about it you'd understand why you feel so helpless, and why all you can do is demand that other people solve your problems.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

So assuming this is true ... What do you even have to be unhappy about? And that's a serious question. If no one has ANY free will, then what is the source of lamenting one's life? Why worry about shit that is completely out of one's control?
Free will = a concern for one's life circumstances, and if you tell me that you aren't concerned, you're lying outright. Getting upset about an event, any event, requires free will. Its a choice made by a sentient being. What you might find devastating, someone else might find amusing. I firmly believe that these two people could learn, changing the beliefs that cause their specific reactions. Its hard, but its possible.

Is this "proveable" in a scientific sense? Of course not. And? It is a utilitarian philosophical position. You choose to reject it, using science as your basis.

All this philosophical discussion? Its a defense ... Where are you in all this free will, quoting Einstein weighty discussion stuff? What's Ahnimus really thinking and feeling at this moment? I am not interested in Schopenhauer. I am interested in where you're at, psychologically-speaking. Can you accept that someone else might actually be interested? Not in your book smarts (which are considerable), but in your actual self?

My actual self? I'm not sure what you mean. I go to work, I pay my bills, I spend time with family. I'm sick as a dog right now, can't sleep cause I'm coughing so much and vommitting. My "self" as would be described by the masses, is just observing. Some neurobiologists believe that consciousness serves long-term planning. If that's what you mean by "self". Though I consider my "self" to encapsulate everything that I am. Physically and subjectively. Though I don't feel that my "experience" or "conscious awareness" has any choice in what happens to me.

Free will = a concern for one's life circumstances, does that mean that a worm has free-will, an amoeba has it?

Its a choice made by a sentient being. What you might find devastating, someone else might find amusing. I firmly believe that these two people could learn, changing the beliefs that cause their specific reactions. Its hard, but its possible.

Exactly, information explains the variability from one percept to the next.

Ahnimus

farfromglorified wrote:

Hehe...am I allowed to read this:

http://www-physics.lbl.gov/~stapp/PTB6.pdf

Unfortunately for you, it does. Perhaps if you thought about it you'd understand why you feel so helpless, and why all you can do is demand that other people solve your problems.

Physics doesn't exactly explain free-will, and quantum physics says nothing, as our understanding of it is so primitive.

I don't feel helpless. I think you are ignorant.

farfromglorified

Ahnimus wrote:

Physics doesn't exactly explain free-will, and quantum physics says nothing, as our understanding of it is so primitive.

Physics does explain free-will. What physics does not explain is the magical process you believe free-will to be.

I don't feel helpless.

Then who's writing your posts?

I think you are ignorant.

You're entitled to think whatever you wish. Understand, however, that thinking something does not make it true.

onelongsong

soulsinging wrote:

that sounds like something doc holliday said in tombstone

and it's still a great quote and in the many years of my life; i have found it to be true.

actually it's a compilation of 2 quotes.

onelongsong

Ahnimus wrote:

There is no evidence that we have free-will.

It's a myth created by theology and permeated by society.

You are the culprits.

free will seperates us from the other animals. it goes hand in hand with reasoning.
i have the choice to shoot my neighbour. free will and reasoning stops me. without free will i'm just another animal running on basic instincts.

hippiemom

Ahnimus wrote:

Just read up on it, you will see that there is no evidence. Self-awareness does not account for free-will.

I read this a while ago. Very interesting book, I enjoyed it very much.

Ahnimus

hippiemom wrote:

I read this a while ago. Very interesting book, I enjoyed it very much.

I've read both sides of the argument. Free-will doesn't compare to determinism as far as logic and proof goes.

Materialism, Fatalism, Destiny Theory, Determinism, Pre-determinism

Always make much more sense than:

Indeterminism, Freedom Philosophy, Compatibalism, etc..

While, I don't agree with the fatalists that God is behind everything. It's still much more believable than free-will.

Ahnimus

onelongsong wrote:

free will seperates us from the other animals. it goes hand in hand with reasoning.
i have the choice to shoot my neighbour. free will and reasoning stops me. without free will i'm just another animal running on basic instincts.

Sounds like you are confusing free-will with reasoning, or think they are synonymous.