Transcendental Meditation

Ahnimus

Does anyone actually do this?

There has been some scientific evidence that this can reconnect regions of the brain that have fallen out of use. There has also been evidence that this can make a person insane.

angelica

I meditate every day. It's basically the only way we can directly experience reality beyond thought.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

I meditate every day. It's basically the only way we can directly experience reality beyond thought.

Except, it's not, it is a hyperactive state of brain activity. It's putting the brain into overdrive. Which potentially has some damaging effects.

It's not actually leaving the brain, or reality. It's a state of hyperactive frontal lobe and temporal lobe activity.

I would suggest something of this sort would be good to heal the brain, but not as an everyday practice.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Except, it's not, it is a hyperactive state of brain activity. It's putting the brain into overdrive. Which potentially has some damaging effects.

It's not actually leaving the brain, or reality. It's a state of hyperactive frontal lobe and temporal lobe activity.

I would suggest something of this sort would be good to heal the brain, but not as an everyday practice.

Note that I didn't say we leave the brain. I said we can experience reality beyond thought. Beyond our conditioning that is not about reality but instead about what we've been taught.

Most people think they are the external world of objects and really they are looking outward all day, and yet do not have the balance of understanding the one who is doing the looking. If we don't understand the lens we look through, we definitely don't understand what we see.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Note that I didn't say we leave the brain. I said we can experience reality beyond thought. Beyond our conditioning that is not about reality but instead about what we've been taught.

Most people think they are the external world of objects and really they are looking outward all day, and yet do not have the balance of understanding the one who is doing the looking. If we don't understand the lens we look through, we definitely don't understand what we see.

Well, at least I know what you are talking about now. I watched that Dan ___ guy from "What the BLEEP" talk about this for 2 hours and couldn't figure out what the heck he was talking about. Talking about wholeness and stuff. Finally they brought a guy on stage and performed a live EEG of the brain state during TM and now I know what you all mean. But I don't think it's a good idea.

Hyperstimulation of brain regions can cause damage.

Ahnimus

Some info:

Intense activation of the temporal lobe, hippocampus, and amygdala has been repeatedly reported to give rise to a host of sexual, religious and spiritual experiences; and chronic hyperstimulation can induce an individual to become hyper-religious or visualize and experience ghosts, demons, angels, and even God, as well as claim demonic and angelic possession or the sensation of having left their body (Bear 1979; Daly 1958; Gloor 1986, 1992; Horowitz et al. 1968; MacLean 1990; Mesulam 1981; Penfield & Perot 1963; Schenk, & Bear 1981; Slater & Beard 1963; Subirana & Oller-Daurelia, 1953; Trimble 1991; Weingarten, et al. 1977; Williams 1956). Indeed, as detailed in chapter 9, the temporal lobe, amygdala and hippocampus enables humans to have religious, spiritual and mystical experiences (Bear 1979; Daly 1958; d'Aquili & Newberg 1993; Mesulam 1981; Trimble 1991).

In one case, a 37 year-old manager of a car dealership had been struck by a car while walking across a street, and was slammed against the pavement, striking his head. According to this fellow (GM), once he gained "consciousness" he realized he was standing next to his body, which was still lying in the street. He could see that his head was bloody, and he could see that he was unconscious and he could see other people rushing over to where he lay. However, this dissociative hallucination only lasted a few seconds, and then he was back in his body, regaining consciousness. GM states that his experience was a "revalation" and although he had never been religious, that he became very religious, and began reading the Bible, volunteering at a local church, and writing a religious column for a small local newspaper. He also began having repeated episodes where he would float beside his body. As his wife complained that he was repeatedly "blanking out" and as he was also having memory problems, he sought medical help, was referred for neuropsychological testing, which revealed significant disturbances of memory, and evidence of temporal lobe epilepsy. Subsequent EEG demosntrated bilateral spiking and theta activity over the temporal lobes.
http://brainmind.com/Area34Uncus.html

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, at least I know what you are talking about now. I watched that Dan ___ guy from "What the BLEEP" talk about this for 2 hours and couldn't figure out what the heck he was talking about. Talking about wholeness and stuff. Finally they brought a guy on stage and performed a live EEG of the brain state during TM and now I know what you all mean. But I don't think it's a good idea.

Hyperstimulation of brain regions can cause damage.

Are you overlooking the massive, vast amounts of information regarding the benefits of meditation that is scientifically documented? Do you ignore it's role in significantly reducing stress, which is a key factor in basically any illness--it's role in the prevention and reduction of illness from heart disease to mental illness? Corporations, teach it, which means they can comprehend the benefits.

Also, I've tried clearing this up before and you have disregarded my experience, but for the record, I personally have not ever had an out of body experience. All of my spiritual experiences have been about the stream of life meeting my conscious awareness, or my conscious awareness meeting the stream of life. This stream is what enlivens me in each day, and therefore it's my ground nature. We all can tap it at any time. Most of us don't because we're busy living out our conditioning.

Hopefully you are finally getting what I'm saying. It's not magic and it's not weird. It's just somewhat uncommon in terms of experience. P.S., I don't remember that part of "what the bleep" so I don't know what you are saying. Have you seen the movie "The Secret"?

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Hopefully you are finally getting what I'm saying. It's not magic and it's not weird. It's just somewhat uncommon in terms of experience. P.S., I don't remember that part of "what the bleep" so I don't know what you are saying. Have you seen the movie "The Secret"?

It wasn't part of What the BLEEP it was a lecture at the University of Washington
http://www.uwtv.org/programs/displayevent.aspx?rID=4169&fID=871

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Also, I've tried clearing this up before and you have disregarded my experience, but for the record, I personally have not ever had an out of body experience. All of my spiritual experiences have been about the stream of life meeting my conscious awareness, or my conscious awareness meeting the stream of life. This stream is what enlivens me in each day, and therefore it's my ground nature. We all can tap it at any time. Most of us don't because we're busy living out our conditioning.

Why does it sound like I'm talking to Chopra all the time? Can't anyone talk about meditation normally? In normal terms!

Ahnimus

Ok, so TM does reduce Cortisol and Norepinephrine production. Which is good. My fear was that hyperstimulation of the temporal lobe would be similar to hyperstimulation of the amygdala which causes Cortisol levels to rise and eventually damage the brain.

However, the effect of meditation Theta waves is the identical to half-half sleep-wake state. I call it day dreaming or going to sleep. Or taking a break. Like when I just want to sit and think about nothing. It's the same deal. I don't think there is anything mystical or supernatural about it, it's just called being relaxed. Whatver mysticism people attach to it, is because they can't explain it or want to sell it as a magic remedy.

Ahnimus

On second though, I got that information from Maharishi's website. Damn it!
http://www.mum.edu/tm_research/tm_biblio/physio_a.html

I'd like to see some corroborating evidence, though I don't doubt what is claimed. I just don't see why it has to be flipped over from science to mysticism.

trappedinmyradio

are you just NOW taking psych 101?

Ahnimus

trappedinmyradio wrote:

are you just NOW taking psych 101?

I'm just now learning what these people are talking about. They don't use terms like Theta waves, Frontal and Temporal lobe, or anything like that. They use terms like "wholeness" and "stream of life" which don't explain what they are actually experiencing.

Also, meditation has not been mentioned in any Psych books I've read. Must have been omitted for lack of a decent explanation.

So Buddhists meditate, but also recognize that they are experiencing an altered state of consciousness. As far as I know, it's not catagorized as an interaction with the outside world, but an internal subjective experience caused by hyperstimulation of various brain regions.

^^^^^^^^ That's how it should be explained, in terms like that.^^^^^^

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

Why does it sound like I'm talking to Chopra all the time? Can't anyone talk about meditation normally? In normal terms!

neither of you is talking about it normally or using normal terms.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

neither of you is talking about it normally or using normal terms.

Well, normal in terms of brain-consciousness study.

That lecture at the University of Washington was like no other lecture I've ever seen. There was maybe 5 mins of actual scientific representation. The rest (1:25:00) sounded like mysticism or new-age psychobabble. Just listen to David Lynch talk for a few minutes and you will want to turn it off.

It's important for forum communication that we use concise descriptive words.

who's_pearljam?

Ahnimus wrote:

Why does it sound like I'm talking to Chopra all the time? Can't anyone talk about meditation normally? In normal terms!

Been doing it since the early 70's, on and off.
It makes me feel good.
Still here, still feel good, but it's never helped me remember where I left my car keys.

Ahnimus

who's_pearljam? wrote:

Been doing it since the early 70's, on and off.
It makes me feel good.
Still here, still feel good, but it's never helped me remember where I left my car keys.

It sounds like it's good for relaxation. It also sounds like something I do regularily without a mantra or any attached mysticism.

What irks me the most about it, is if you want to learn it, there are hundreds of mystics ready to leech your wallet.

I also worry that it's not actually a hightened state of awareness, but a hightened state of creativity. Which, when misrepresented gives the illusion of a reality that does not actually exist outside of the creativity of our minds during such practices.

who's_pearljam?

Ahnimus wrote:

It sounds like it's good for relaxation. It also sounds like something I do regularily without a mantra or any attached mysticism.

What irks me the most about it, is if you want to learn it, there are hundreds of mystics ready to leech your wallet.

I also worry that it's not actually a hightened state of awareness, but a hightened state of creativity. Which, when misrepresented gives the illusion of a reality that does not actually exist outside of the creativity of our minds during such practices.

I think it's like everything in life anymore. Somebody wants to make a buck off it, some teachers are legit and some aren't and you don't HAVE to pay somebody a lot of money to do it, although there are plenty of people who will gladly take your money!
I've never paid anything to learn it. I started doing it years ago with a teacher and now when I do it, it's routine, and it clears my head, and I really don't get into the mysticism, and never met anybody who has.
A mantra helps you get into your meditation, and some people use it, some people don't need it.
If I think too deeply about it, it defeats the purpose to me. I've never actually sat and thought about it being better for creativity, or heightened awareness or if my brain synapsis are shorting out.
I actually think of it as rebooting my brain. It shuts off, then starts up on its own when I come out of it.



haha,, now you have me worried!


I think in the last 15 to 20 years or so, a lot of people tend to want to quantize exactly what something is doing, be it TM, Yoga, or who the best band in the world is, or the best song of the year, etc.

For instance, I do yoga, too. I don't own a special mat, or a special set of clothes, and go to a class only on occasion. I learned from some classes and now I go upstairs in my house, roll out a towel and just do it, and it's the best thing I've ever done for my body.
When people find out I'm doing it, a lot wonder if I'm into the Dalai Lama, or how I do it without being in a class, because the perception to some people is that we need to be doing it and keeping records of how much farther we can stretch or move, and in reality, it should be non competitive and something that makes your body and mind feel better.
The whole practice of yoga is to TAKE your mind and body away from the daily rigors, but some people feel that need to go through those very rigors to DO yoga.


haha,, I forget what I was talking about! Some help TM is!

Ahnimus

who's_pearljam? wrote:

I think it's like everything in life anymore. Somebody wants to make a buck off it, some teachers are legit and some aren't and you don't HAVE to pay somebody a lot of money to do it, although there are plenty of people who will gladly take your money!
I've never paid anything to learn it. I started doing it years ago with a teacher and now when I do it, it's routine, and it clears my head, and I really don't get into the mysticism, and never met anybody who has.
A mantra helps you get into your meditation, and some people use it, some people don't need it.
If I think too deeply about it, it defeats the purpose to me. I've never actually sat and thought about it being better for creativity, or heightened awareness or if my brain synapsis are shorting out.
I actually think of it as rebooting my brain. It shuts off, then starts up on its own when I come out of it.

haha,, now you have me worried!

I think in the last 15 to 20 years or so, a lot of people tend to want to quantize exactly what something is doing, be it TM, Yoga, or who the best band in the world is, or the best song of the year, etc.

For instance, I do yoga, too. I don't own a special mat, or a special set of clothes, and go to a class only on occasion. I learned from some classes and now I go upstairs in my house, roll out a towel and just do it, and it's the best thing I've ever done for my body.
When people find out I'm doing it, a lot wonder if I'm into the Dalai Lama, or how I do it without being in a class, because the perception to some people is that we need to be doing it and keeping records of how much farther we can stretch or move, and in reality, it should be non competitive and something that makes your body and mind feel better.
The whole practice of yoga is to TAKE your mind and body away from the daily rigors, but some people feel that need to go through those very rigors to DO yoga.

haha,, I forget what I was talking about! Some help TM is!

Well, I find listening to Kitaro helps me to relax.
http://www.amazon.com/Mandala-Kitaro/dp/B000005WN6

Yoga is actually good for the brain. Suprisingly, anything that is not routine is good for the brain. E.g. if you are right-handed, using your left hand to perform routine functions exercises the brains ability to use the left hand. Eventually becoming ambidexterous. Likewise, when a person is learning to ride a bicycle or swing a golf club, they are exercising their brain as well.

Physical exercise in general exercises the brain. Walking oxygenates the brain providing greater clarity of thought.
http://www.fi.edu/brain/exercise.htm

Much is left to know about how the brain works, of course. But one well-known fact is that the brain causes consciousness. So, if a person feels that their consciousness can exist outside of their brain. That's getting dangerously close to psychosis or dementia. Perhaps there is a thin-line between healthy brain exercise and unhealthy brain exercise.
http://www-csli.stanford.edu/~paulsko/papers/SearleHowtoStudy.pdf

trappedinmyradio

i guess you missed the question. you keep threading about these niche things that people should think about before they're 25. it seems like you're just now taking psych 101 because you seem to have a new topic every few days...like psych 101...that's all.

Ahnimus wrote:

I'm just now learning what these people are talking about. They don't use terms like Theta waves, Frontal and Temporal lobe, or anything like that. They use terms like "wholeness" and "stream of life" which don't explain what they are actually experiencing.

Also, meditation has not been mentioned in any Psych books I've read. Must have been omitted for lack of a decent explanation.

So Buddhists meditate, but also recognize that they are experiencing an altered state of consciousness. As far as I know, it's not catagorized as an interaction with the outside world, but an internal subjective experience caused by hyperstimulation of various brain regions.

^^^^^^^^ That's how it should be explained, in terms like that.^^^^^^

Ahnimus

trappedinmyradio wrote:

i guess you missed the question. you keep threading about these niche things that people should think about before they're 25. it seems like you're just now taking psych 101 because you seem to have a new topic every few days...like psych 101...that's all.

I'm always learning. The biggest mistake people make is to read a book or take a course and think that is everything. We have to constantly be learning to exercise our brains and to learn new information and to relearn old information.