Sexual Self-Deception

Ahnimus

Jeanie wrote:

I guess I'll leave this one alone. Not because I necessarily disagree with you, but more because I'm not sure I trust your interpretations readily. No biggy, I'm quite sure it will have no effect on you whatsoever.

You can always argue in the negative like Angelica.

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

You can always argue in the negative like Angelica.

I could, or I could leave it.

It's the weekend, I've had 3 hours sleep, and it's not really a burning issue in my day right now.

I'm sure angel will keep you on your toes if you're bored!

Ahnimus

Jeanie wrote:

I could, or I could leave it.

It's the weekend, I've had 3 hours sleep, and it's not really a burning issue in my day right now.

I'm sure angel will keep you on your toes if you're bored!

Hmm, I don't know. As long as I'm posting here, I'm not learning anything. I'm having trouble paying attention to this Churchland interview http://thesciencenetwork.org/

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I've watched the first 4 lectures in Rhawn Joseph's series of brain anatomy lectures and there are no lies in it that I've noticed. Of course, he's giving the lectures for a class. While he does weird supernaturalism type stuff on the side, and threatens other writers like Susan Blackmore. I don't doubt that his university lectures are on target and he knows a lot about the brain. This article could be 100% accurate. But for the sake of skepticism and face, I'll give that it's probably bullshit.

I'm not vouching for this guy in any way shape or form. It's just been clear to me that self-deception is very obvious. And sexual self-deception as well.

The key point, though, is that it is a person's conscious awareness that must be respected at all times, no matter what their unconscious body language says. This is why it is being taught to teens, the importance of the word "no" and to males, the necessity of getting verbal agreement for sex, rather than accepting body language when receiving mixed signals. What is verbal goes through the ego and conscious awareness. A person cannot consciously control what they are unconscious of.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

I'm not vouching for this guy in any way shape or form. It's just been clear to me that self-deception is very obvious. And sexual self-deception as well.

The key point, though, is that it is a person's conscious awareness that must be respected at all times, no matter what their unconscious body language says. This is why it is being taught to teens, the importance of the word "no" and to males, the necessity of getting verbal agreement for sex, rather than accepting body language when receiving mixed signals. What is verbal goes through the ego and conscious awareness. A person cannot consciously control what they are unconscious of.

It sounds like you are suggesting that an intoxicated male mind is more capable and hence more responsible than an intoxicated female mind.

Jeanie

Ahnimus wrote:

Hmm, I don't know. As long as I'm posting here, I'm not learning anything. I'm having trouble paying attention to this Churchland interview http://thesciencenetwork.org/

Well you are. You are learning to interact with a wide variety of people and their opinions. Always beneficial.

Now I've taken a peek at your link, but I have to say Ryan, sorry but it's no match for Eddie and friends on youtube today.

If you're struggling to pay attention it may be that you are fatigued.
In which case you may be better served saving it for a time when your brain is more receptive.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

It sounds like you are suggesting that an intoxicated male mind is more capable and hence more responsible than an intoxicated female mind.

What I'm saying is that individuals on either sides can learn from what is taught from date-rape education, or they can live with the consequences of not learning from it. From the sounds of it for you, it hasn't been a lot of fun living with the consequences of being accused of date-rape or whatever the actual accusation was. I also don't know the situation.

If a male truth is "I'm gonna get me some", and the girl says "no", and the male follows his drives rather than logic, there is a chance some negative stuff will go down, and potentially legally as well. It takes two people to agree and only one to disagree. It is what it is. I personally don't blame a person involved for being who they are, and for their drives. We as a society deny the powerful drives we have unconsciously. We think we are a society of civilized people, but really that is one of the illusions we tell ourselves. Ultimately, though, there are still consequences for such actions. And the person who acts out "rape" is the one accountable for that rape.

I've also been jumped all over for my views on this board by the women, because I had been date-raped/raped in numerous ways in my life. And at one point, when I changed my behaviours, I stopped attracting that to me. I have publicly said on this board that we contract for those incidences with our "presence" in the situations--women, too. If someone sexually assaults me against my will, I am not responsible for the sexual assault. And yet, I must live through the experience anyway--I experience consequences for being in the wrong place. Due to this, I recommend women take many steps to ensure they are safe from animal drives. And that we teach our daughters to be safe, and to be conscious of sexual awareness--not just the sugar-coated kind. And I particularly advocate women not giving away their consciousness to alcohol, when there is any chance they could happen upon a compromising situation. Dulling down our insights and intuition and ability to consciously choose is not a way to ensure our own safety.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

What I'm saying is that individuals on either sides can learn from what is taught from date-rape education, or they can live with the consequences of not learning from it. From the sounds of it for you, it hasn't been a lot of fun living with the consequences of being accused of date-rape or whatever the actual accusation was. I also don't know the situation.

If a male truth is "I'm gonna get me some", and the girl says "no", and the male follows his drives rather than logic, there is a chance some negative stuff will go down, and potentially legally as well. It takes two people to agree and only one to disagree. It is what it is. I personally don't blame a person involved for being who they are, and for their drives. We as a society deny the powerful drives we have unconsciously. We think we are a society of civilized people, but really that is one of the illusions we tell ourselves. Ultimately, though, there are still consequences for such actions. And the person who acts out "rape" is the one accountable for that rape.

I've also been jumped all over for my views on this board by the women, because I had been date-raped/raped in numerous ways in my life. And at one point, when I changed my behaviours, I stopped attracting that to me. I have publicly said on this board that we contract for those incidences with our "presence" in the situations--women, too. If someone sexually assaults me against my will, I am not responsible for the sexual assault. And yet, I must live through the experience anyway--I experience consequences for being in the wrong place. Due to this, I recommend women take many steps to ensure they are safe from animal drives. And that we teach our daughters to be safe, and to be conscious of sexual awareness--not just the sugar-coated kind. And I particularly advocate women not giving away their consciousness to alcohol, when there is any chance they could happen upon a compromising situation. Dulling down our insights and intuition and ability to consciously choose is not a way to ensure our own safety.

It stands to reason that a male under the influence of alcohol can be taken over by his limbic system, and since the sexual drive in men is so potent. "No" might mean nothing at all. This is not an excuse, but a potential reality!

It's very easy to say one should not do something, or that one should be conscious of and heed the wishes of others. But is in fact something entirely different to expect that to occur in every case. Some people have more self-control than others and I submit that this is a fact of evolution and not personal choice.

prism

Ahnimus wrote:

It stands to reason that a male under the influence of alcohol can be taken over by his limbic system, and since the sexual drive in men is so potent. "No" might mean nothing at all. This is not an excuse, but a potential reality!

It's very easy to say one should not do something, or that one should be conscious of and heed the wishes of others. But is in fact something entirely different to expect that to occur in every case. Some people have more self-control than others and I submit that this is a fact of evolution and not personal choice.

so at what point should that male be trusted at all? if at any point in the relationship he's not willing to take no for an answer than at no point should he be trusted. should every man or just some of them have "potential rapist" tatooed on their forehead? cause that sure would come in handy

Ahnimus

prism wrote:

so at what point should that male be trusted at all? if at any point in the relationship he's not willing to take no for an answer than at no point should he be trusted. should every man or just some of them have "potential rapist" tatooed on their forehead? cause that sure would come in handy

It's not a matter of "men are rapists" it's a matter of certain people with biological traits and environmental influences crack and revert to animal nature. Which I add is in fact part and parcel for our evolutionary history.

Consider that our "Society" our "Culture" is not how we are made to be. At what point did it become "normal" for human beings to be restricted in all of their thoughts and actions?

As I walked home from work tonight a young woman approached me topless and obviously drunk. She was shaking her boobs (very nice indeed) and saying "Can I have a smoke, look I'm topless". My inner furnace burst into flames with desire to drag her into the bushes and bang the shit out of her. but why could I not? Why did I fix my eyes ahead of me and swiftly continue my route home with only saying "No sorry"? Because, in my judgment, she was maybe 16 years old and the threat of prison loomed over. For why? What harm would really have been done if the belief that it is wrong was not ingrained into me?

Then, women my age do not act as such. They are firmly secured in their preservation of sanctity. Which is utter bullshit fabricated by mythology. The reason we cheat and commit adultry, is because we are going against the grain of human sexuality with our "Society" and for what? nothing.

Sex is so essential to human happiness. Everything else pales in comparison to the experience of sex. Yet we hinder it to the degree that human animals snap and then we punish them. I can guarantee that many a man would not have evaded the situation above. But I am already somber to the trials of human existence. I would have done the same no matter the age. The results are usually far more complicated than should be.

Sexual frustration is a force to be reckoned with and no amount of talking is going to change the reality of being human. I would rather hedonism proliferate and abolition of age of consent laws, than see another incidence of rape.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

It stands to reason that a male under the influence of alcohol can be taken over by his limbic system, and since the sexual drive in men is so potent. "No" might mean nothing at all. This is not an excuse, but a potential reality!

I realize it's a potential reality. Anyone owns the consequences of anything they do under the influence of any substance, male and female. Women get raped due to their flawed choices under the influence and men rape due to flawed choices under the influence. Both must live with the consequences, and own that they have effectively handed their awareness over to the unconscious when they drink--which mean their baser drives. They have relinquished conscious choice. If they don't own this consciously before the fact, they'll have to own it the hard way, through painful consequences.

It's very easy to say one should not do something, or that one should be conscious of and heed the wishes of others. But is in fact something entirely different to expect that to occur in every case. Some people have more self-control than others and I submit that this is a fact of evolution and not personal choice.

I don't at all expect it. I know rape will occur for years to come. Even when people are willing to listen, and take responsibility for their conscious awareness, it takes a longggg time and a lot of effort to learn to master one's unconscious self and baser drives, and to accept and integrate them into a full and holistic package. I've been working on this for years, and it is still not mastered. Besides acknowledgement being the first step, and huge part of this is the fact that we consciously do not identify with our base nature and desires. We deny them, and we act them out unconsciously. I see that it's part of evolution AND personal choice at the same time. I say this because I've learned to go from unconscious to close to fully mastered/conscious due to my choices. Although it's taken 13 years to do this, and I've made many errors. So, again, I don't at all expect this issue to disappear any time soon. Unfortunately, though, in the main of society in the western world, we sweep things under the rug, so we will not look at and solve what we're unwilling to, at this time. For now, blame and polarization is working just fine for people.

angelica

prism wrote:

so at what point should that male be trusted at all? if at any point in the relationship he's not willing to take no for an answer than at no point should he be trusted. should every man or just some of them have "potential rapist" tatooed on their forehead? cause that sure would come in handy

I definitely think every man IS a potential rapist. Not in the sense that every man is capable of it, but in the sense that as a woman, one does not know. I've been date raped on numerous occasions because I trusted the social mask presented to me. Some of the "nicest" people, who showed compassion and care for me have sexually violated me against my will.

I have learned to never put my power into the other person's hands. I need all my wits/insight/intelligence/perception and strategy for myself. Predatory sexual inclinations*, which are typically male, are what they are, and have their own agenda. All of my attention rightfully belongs with my own agenda. As it should be for all women.

*By this I mean that males just are naturally predatory--it's how the species keeps reproducing.

VictoryGin

Ahnimus wrote:

My inner furnace burst into flames with desire to drag her into the bushes and bang the shit out of her.

r.joseph is that you?

what a douche.

onelongsong

Ahnimus wrote:

It's not a matter of "men are rapists" it's a matter of certain people with biological traits and environmental influences crack and revert to animal nature. Which I add is in fact part and parcel for our evolutionary history.

Consider that our "Society" our "Culture" is not how we are made to be. At what point did it become "normal" for human beings to be restricted in all of their thoughts and actions?

As I walked home from work tonight a young woman approached me topless and obviously drunk. She was shaking her boobs (very nice indeed) and saying "Can I have a smoke, look I'm topless". My inner furnace burst into flames with desire to drag her into the bushes and bang the shit out of her. but why could I not? Why did I fix my eyes ahead of me and swiftly continue my route home with only saying "No sorry"? Because, in my judgment, she was maybe 16 years old and the threat of prison loomed over. For why? What harm would really have been done if the belief that it is wrong was not ingrained into me?

Then, women my age do not act as such. They are firmly secured in their preservation of sanctity. Which is utter bullshit fabricated by mythology. The reason we cheat and commit adultry, is because we are going against the grain of human sexuality with our "Society" and for what? nothing.

Sex is so essential to human happiness. Everything else pales in comparison to the experience of sex. Yet we hinder it to the degree that human animals snap and then we punish them. I can guarantee that many a man would not have evaded the situation above. But I am already somber to the trials of human existence. I would have done the same no matter the age. The results are usually far more complicated than should be.

Sexual frustration is a force to be reckoned with and no amount of talking is going to change the reality of being human. I would rather hedonism proliferate and abolition of age of consent laws, than see another incidence of rape.

there are women rapists too. let's not forget them.

Ahnimus

VictoryGin wrote:

r.joseph is that you?

what a douche.

Was that really appropriate?

Your are an infestation

angelica

onelongsong wrote:

there are women rapists too. let's not forget them.

Yes there are.

Ahnimus

The criminal is not hard to understand. He is one who, from inherited defects or from great misfortune or especially hard circumstances, is not able to make the necessary adjustments to fit him to his environment. Seldom is he a man of average intelligence, unless he belongs to a certain class that will be discussed later. Almost always he is below the normal of intelligence and in perhaps half of the cases very much below. Nearly always he is a person of practically no education and no property. One who has given attention to the subject of crime knows exactly where the criminal comes from and how he will develop. The crimes of violence and murder, and the lesser crimes against property, practically all come from those who have been reared in the poor and congested districts of cities and large villages. The robbers, burglars, pickpockets and thieves are from these surroundings. In a broad sense, some criminals are born and some are made. Nearly all of them are both born and made. This does not mean that criminality can be inherited, or even that there is a criminal type. It means that with certain physical and mental imperfections and with certain environment the criminal will be the result.

Those who say that punishment is for the purpose of reforming the prisoner are not familiar with human psychology. The prison almost invariably tends to brutalize men and breeds bitterness and blank despair. The life of the ordinary prisoner is given over to criticism and resentment against existing things, especially to settled hatred of those who are responsible for his punishment. Only a few, and these are the weakest, ever blame themselves for their situation. Every man of intelligence can trace the various steps that led him to the prison door, and he can feel, if he does not understand, how inevitable each step was. The number of "repeaters" in prison shows the effect of this kind of a living death upon the inmates. To be branded as a criminal and turned out in the world again leaves one weakened in the struggle of life and handicapped in a race that is hard enough for most men at the best. In prison and after leaving prison, the man lives in a world of his own; a world where all moral values are different from those professed by the jailer and society in general. The great influence that helps to keep many men from committing crime—the judgment of his fellows—no longer deters him in his conduct. In fact, every person who understands penal institutions—no matter how well such places are managed—knows that a thousand are injured or utterly destroyed by service in prison, where one is helped.
- Clarence Darrow