If Obama were a Republican who came out and admitted to using weed and cocaine you would be all over him like flys on shit. Give me a break. You guys have annointed this guy saint when the reality is we don't know a fuck thing about the guy. It's way too early to be proclaiming victors isn't it? The debate hasn't even begun, and for most of you the debate doesn't even need to happen. Either support Obama or your a neo-con. Sorry but that shit aint flying. How do you think Saint Obama's weed snort fest in Hawaii is going to play come general election time in the bible belt? Cmon now. Big picture...
One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist at this stage to say he or she is against the war. The ONLY thing Obama has going for him is he is so new to the Senate he didn't have to cast a vote for Iraq. For him to say he would have voted against it is total bullshit! He would have been deemed a fucking traitor if he hadn't. Even your boy Kerry voted for the war........So now that things have turned to shit, the savior is anyone who says no to the war? Everyone, including Republicans are saying no to George W. Did you miss that whole John Warner coming out against the President thing?
The issue is what's the best way out and when. The truth is no one has the answer. And the man or woman who steps up and admits they dont have the answers, is probably the one you should vote for. Because that's the only person being honest...The reality is we cant just pick up and leave. The entire global economy is at stake in that region. To just pick up and leave would be disastrous.
How do you think Saint Obama's weed snort fest in Hawaii is going to play come general election time in the bible belt? Cmon now. Big picture...
Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.
obama shouldnt be the dem candidate in 08. Out nation deserves better. Out of a nation of 300 million plus people, are the best people for the job really Biden, Gore, Clinton, Obama?
I mean is that the best we can do? Is that the opposition party?
The best and brightest know better than to get involved in Politics. Politics, by its nature, caters to the lowest common denominator.
how do you square John Kerry being marketed to antiwar types and potential nader votes, or the antiwar crowd, they all were told kerry was antiwar
Why did he promise to do what bush just did? Yeah thats right go google it. back in one of the 04 debates kerry, when asked what he would do about iraq said, "I would send in more troops, I would send about 20,000 more troops in".
I dont vote for dems or republicans because they are both the same. Kerry was funded by the same people Bush was.
Plus, its such a mockery. To get the nomination of your party, research shows that you have to have 150 million. I am not making that number up. There was a study that proved that.
If you have 150 million, or are capable of raising that money, are you really representing the average joe?
The fact is, Kerry was middle of the road. So was gore in 2000. They werent radical lefties. They were centrists.
Centrism lost kerry the election in 04. Why not at least nominate a Kucinich? I mean we dont know that he wouldnt be elected. We know Kerry isnt electable. Centrism doesnt work.
As I said before, the fact is the public is antiwar. Both the Dems and Republicans need the antiwar vote to win. So calling for more troops isnt electable.
Why is it so hard for Dems to come out and be a true opposition party? I mean kerry was pro WTO, pro globalization, wasnt a gay rights advocate (yes he was for unions, but come on people!), was pro buisness.
The fact remains, dems are exactly like republicans. They just are for nicer buisnesses than republicans. But they are all the same.
We need a McGovern, a Bobby Kennedy.
But sadly, those days are over man. The old idealistic democratic party is dead. Since the Clinton years all the Democrats have brought to the table was a milder form of the Repulican party. Same graft. Same agenda. Today it's not a matter of which party, as opposed to which personality to vote for. There are no more bright lines between Dems and Repubs anymore other than shit like choice, and prayer in schools and crap like that. Idealism in the Democratic party is dead. Mediocrity is the standard. Has been for decades now. How else does an idiot like Reagan and a fool like Bush Jr. win two terms? Because the Dems just dont have a message anymore and they nominate unelectable toads. I mean cmon, do y'all remember Dukakis ridin around in that tank? Were they serious?
But alas, I see the same mistake about to happen yet again. Just start sayin it now...President McCain, President McCain...
But sadly, those days are over man. The old idealistic democratic party is dead. Since the Clinton years all the Democrats have brought to the table was a milder form of the Repulican party. Same graft. Same agenda. Today it's not a matter of which party, as opposed to which personality to vote for. There are no more bright lines between Dems and Repubs anymore other than shit like choice, and prayer in schools and crap like that. Idealism in the Democratic party is dead. Mediocrity is the standard. Has been for decades now. How else does an idiot like Reagan and a fool like Bush Jr. win two terms? Because the Dems just dont have a message anymore and they nominate unelectable toads. I mean cmon, do y'all remember Dukakis ridin around in that tank? Were they serious?
But alas, I see the same mistake about to happen yet again. Just start sayin it now...President McCain, President McCain...
Yeah it's a sad state of affairs..
During the last election I had many an argument in my Us History class about this.. I kept saying "If they only gave a real liberal option they could breathe life back into the people who want to support them against the republicans.." But all I heard was "but they won't win the middle class!". Fuck that, 'middle class' doesn't mean 'conservative'. They're more concerned with trying to bullshit their way into winning elections than supporting it's used-to-be voters.
Obama still gives me a little hope.. I don't think he can win, but it gives me hope. It'd be interesting to see what Gore could do come 2008..
and now the question's:
do i kill them?
become their friend?
do i eat them?
raw or well done?
do i trick them?
i don't think they're that dumb
do i join them?
looks like that's the one
hehehehehehe!!! best answer I have heard yet!!! Personally I like Mccain...I like his stance on abortion/the war(to some extent)/gay rights...
seems like the best one so far to me.....I am NOT going green again....too radical for me...I think we need some middle.....not all this Extreem right/Left bullshit....
Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.
Obama's a christian?? Do your homework. No one's buyin that crap. Certainly not middle america.
During the last election I had many an argument in my Us History class about this.. I kept saying "If they only gave a real liberal option they could breathe life back into the people who want to support them against the republicans.." But all I heard was "but they won't win the middle class!". Fuck that, 'middle class' doesn't mean 'conservative'. They're more concerned with trying to bullshit their way into winning elections than supporting it's used-to-be voters.
Obama still gives me a little hope.. I don't think he can win, but it gives me hope. It'd be interesting to see what Gore could do come 2008..
Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.
dont forget the muslim dad. that shit will go over well with the necks....like i said, get on a different bus
obama shouldnt be the dem candidate in 08. Out nation deserves better. Out of a nation of 300 million plus people, are the best people for the job really Biden, Gore, Clinton, Obama?
I mean is that the best we can do? Is that the opposition party?
apparently so
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
^^ che - ALL politicians are liars and scum. You have to play the game to get the best hand you can get. If that means voting for scum #2 over the incumbant scum so be it.
By wanting to know how Pearl Jam feels about a certain candidate rather than thinking for yourself goes against the things that PJ writes and sings about? If someone can't make a decision for themselves rather than "Who are the cool people going to pick" then that is just lazy and uneducated!
For instance, I never support someone because they are a donkey or an elephant. I want someone that will do the right thing for The People, not a Party Pleaser!
Exactly. I hate when people say "I didn't vote because I didn't like either of the candidates, but I still hate bush so much more."
THEN FUCKING VOTE FOR KERRY. If we all experienced Bush and know just how horrible he was, why the hell would people not support the other guy who's not him?
Also, for 2008, while I don't have any favorites, I'll have to look into the candidates more and learn more about them.
Condolezza Rice for 2008!
Not really.
Sometimes people don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. If you are that fed up with it then don't vote. I completely support that. Not voting is a freedom we have here too. I personally think it is important to vote, and I will always, but if your political stance is apathy or sheer disgust at the whole political process then NOT voting can be looked at as a political stance too.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that... ok in Australia (according to my friend who lives there) voting is enforced. Everybody has to vote! It's the law. If you don't vote you get fined. Some people don't vote on principle. I think it's better in America that people aren't forced to vote. Cause not voting is in and of itself a political stance and a freedom that I'm glad I have. If it ever came to voting for the lesser of two evils and I really felt that way then I might decide that not voting was the message I wanted to send. Sure, one vote may not amount to much, but it is my voice and I should have the right to use it the way I see fit. Know what I mean?
but if your political stance is apathy or sheer disgust at the whole political process then NOT voting can be looked at as a political stance too.
How does the song/book title go? You can't be neutral on a moving train. If you don't vote, out of disgust, your disgust still doesn't register and the status quo still wins. The process is going to go on with or without you, and you are going to be taken -- via that moving train -- to places you don't want to go. All because of apathy and inertia.
If you don't like either of the major party, vote for a third party candidate.
(Note: This post isn't directed at "you" specifically. Just people in general).
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
How does the song/book title go? You can't be neutral on a moving train. If you don't vote, out of disgust, your disgust still doesn't register and the status quo still wins. The process is going to go on with or without you, and you are going to be taken -- via that moving train -- to places you don't want to go. All because of apathy and inertia.
If you don't like either of the major party, vote for a third party candidate.
(Note: This post isn't directed at "you" specifically. Just people in general).
I guess I don't look at it that way. I think when you don't vote (especially when it is about not voting for somebody that you don't believe in or even like) you aren't being neutral. You are making a very political statement. The status quo may being going on without me, but would if I voted for somebody I didn't like or a third party or something else anyway. In my mind voting for somebody who you think is the lesser of two evils is tantamount to throwing your vote in the garbage... sometimes especially in the case of a third party person who you KNOW isn't going to win anyway. That's not a statement about third party people. I would SO vote third party if I liked the candidate and wanted him to win regardless of whether or not he (or she) had any chance of actually winning. I wouldn't consider that wasting my vote either. I'm just saying... lol
That being said... Voting is Good! Please, everybody! VOTE! It's important.
How does the song/book title go? You can't be neutral on a moving train. If you don't vote, out of disgust, your disgust still doesn't register and the status quo still wins. The process is going to go on with or without you, and you are going to be taken -- via that moving train -- to places you don't want to go. All because of apathy and inertia.
If you don't like either of the major party, vote for a third party candidate.
(Note: This post isn't directed at "you" specifically. Just people in general).
exactly. if you don't participate in the political process directly you're participating in another way, whether you realize it or not. you can't be neutral...on a moving train....
exactly. if you don't participate in the political process directly you're participating in another way, whether you realize it or not. you can't be neutral...on a moving train....
ed vedder is a high school dropout...so his endorsement is like the plague
That means nothing. One of the brightest and knowledgeable people I know only has a high school education however he has always been an avid reader. He knows more than many college educated folks. Besides, I read Ed was short what a class or so when he dropped then got his diploma or GED after. I don't agree with Ed's ultra liberal politics but I do not think he is an unitelligent person. My assessmant of him is that he is very intelligent, drop out or not.
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
If you don't like either of the major party, vote for a third party candidate.
(Note: This post isn't directed at "you" specifically. Just people in general).
Just think what could happen if more people including the apathetic votes for a third party candidates instead of thinking their vote is being thrown away? The system would have to change for a while anyways. It's the same old, rich political bedfellows running in the republican and democratic party. It is long overdue that this government gets shaken up. In my state they don't let the 3rd party governor coandidate participate in the debates. Pretty shitty if you ask me -just a guaranty that the two party system stays.
By not voting, you're making a choice - you're letting others select the president so if you don't vote you really have nothing to bitch about because you chose to not do anything. "You" being people in general.
"Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
Comments
seriously.
when your given a choice of 2 candidates, and both support the war, your basically being ruled by a one party system.
fascism, if you will.
If Obama were a Republican who came out and admitted to using weed and cocaine you would be all over him like flys on shit. Give me a break. You guys have annointed this guy saint when the reality is we don't know a fuck thing about the guy. It's way too early to be proclaiming victors isn't it? The debate hasn't even begun, and for most of you the debate doesn't even need to happen. Either support Obama or your a neo-con. Sorry but that shit aint flying. How do you think Saint Obama's weed snort fest in Hawaii is going to play come general election time in the bible belt? Cmon now. Big picture...
The issue is what's the best way out and when. The truth is no one has the answer. And the man or woman who steps up and admits they dont have the answers, is probably the one you should vote for. Because that's the only person being honest...The reality is we cant just pick up and leave. The entire global economy is at stake in that region. To just pick up and leave would be disastrous.
Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.
The best and brightest know better than to get involved in Politics. Politics, by its nature, caters to the lowest common denominator.
But sadly, those days are over man. The old idealistic democratic party is dead. Since the Clinton years all the Democrats have brought to the table was a milder form of the Repulican party. Same graft. Same agenda. Today it's not a matter of which party, as opposed to which personality to vote for. There are no more bright lines between Dems and Repubs anymore other than shit like choice, and prayer in schools and crap like that. Idealism in the Democratic party is dead. Mediocrity is the standard. Has been for decades now. How else does an idiot like Reagan and a fool like Bush Jr. win two terms? Because the Dems just dont have a message anymore and they nominate unelectable toads. I mean cmon, do y'all remember Dukakis ridin around in that tank? Were they serious?
But alas, I see the same mistake about to happen yet again. Just start sayin it now...President McCain, President McCain...
During the last election I had many an argument in my Us History class about this.. I kept saying "If they only gave a real liberal option they could breathe life back into the people who want to support them against the republicans.." But all I heard was "but they won't win the middle class!". Fuck that, 'middle class' doesn't mean 'conservative'. They're more concerned with trying to bullshit their way into winning elections than supporting it's used-to-be voters.
Obama still gives me a little hope.. I don't think he can win, but it gives me hope. It'd be interesting to see what Gore could do come 2008..
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
hehehehehehe!!! best answer I have heard yet!!! Personally I like Mccain...I like his stance on abortion/the war(to some extent)/gay rights...
seems like the best one so far to me.....I am NOT going green again....too radical for me...I think we need some middle.....not all this Extreem right/Left bullshit....
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
apparently so
So then we are the United Scum of America?
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Bringing the troops home isn't going to end the war. It's a lot more complicated than that, I'm afraid.
for the least they could possibly do
For instance, I never support someone because they are a donkey or an elephant. I want someone that will do the right thing for The People, not a Party Pleaser!
Sometimes people don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. If you are that fed up with it then don't vote. I completely support that. Not voting is a freedom we have here too. I personally think it is important to vote, and I will always, but if your political stance is apathy or sheer disgust at the whole political process then NOT voting can be looked at as a political stance too.
I guess what I'm getting at here is that... ok in Australia (according to my friend who lives there) voting is enforced. Everybody has to vote! It's the law. If you don't vote you get fined. Some people don't vote on principle. I think it's better in America that people aren't forced to vote. Cause not voting is in and of itself a political stance and a freedom that I'm glad I have. If it ever came to voting for the lesser of two evils and I really felt that way then I might decide that not voting was the message I wanted to send. Sure, one vote may not amount to much, but it is my voice and I should have the right to use it the way I see fit. Know what I mean?
Peace and Love
Deni
How does the song/book title go? You can't be neutral on a moving train. If you don't vote, out of disgust, your disgust still doesn't register and the status quo still wins. The process is going to go on with or without you, and you are going to be taken -- via that moving train -- to places you don't want to go. All because of apathy and inertia.
If you don't like either of the major party, vote for a third party candidate.
(Note: This post isn't directed at "you" specifically. Just people in general).
for the least they could possibly do
I guess I don't look at it that way. I think when you don't vote (especially when it is about not voting for somebody that you don't believe in or even like) you aren't being neutral. You are making a very political statement. The status quo may being going on without me, but would if I voted for somebody I didn't like or a third party or something else anyway. In my mind voting for somebody who you think is the lesser of two evils is tantamount to throwing your vote in the garbage... sometimes especially in the case of a third party person who you KNOW isn't going to win anyway. That's not a statement about third party people. I would SO vote third party if I liked the candidate and wanted him to win regardless of whether or not he (or she) had any chance of actually winning. I wouldn't consider that wasting my vote either. I'm just saying... lol
That being said... Voting is Good! Please, everybody! VOTE! It's important.
To you last comment there... yeah I know...
Peace and Love
Deni
exactly. if you don't participate in the political process directly you're participating in another way, whether you realize it or not. you can't be neutral...on a moving train....
I think you just agreed with me! ha ha!
Peace and Love
Deni
That means nothing. One of the brightest and knowledgeable people I know only has a high school education however he has always been an avid reader. He knows more than many college educated folks. Besides, I read Ed was short what a class or so when he dropped then got his diploma or GED after. I don't agree with Ed's ultra liberal politics but I do not think he is an unitelligent person. My assessmant of him is that he is very intelligent, drop out or not.
Just think what could happen if more people including the apathetic votes for a third party candidates instead of thinking their vote is being thrown away? The system would have to change for a while anyways. It's the same old, rich political bedfellows running in the republican and democratic party. It is long overdue that this government gets shaken up. In my state they don't let the 3rd party governor coandidate participate in the debates. Pretty shitty if you ask me -just a guaranty that the two party system stays.
By not voting, you're making a choice - you're letting others select the president so if you don't vote you really have nothing to bitch about because you chose to not do anything. "You" being people in general.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And wow, no current AMTers are on this original thread.
Edit AMT, lol
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