obama and PJ

Pearl Jam and toast

Yeah we deserve that kind of candidate but it's never gonna fucking happen. Get over yourself and play the game. If all the pretentious liberal jerks like you just got out and voted for their best option Bush would be out of the white house right now... Fuck he may not have gotten there in the first place.

ryan198

That's awesome, blame liberals for George Bush being elected...not the system, not the cheating fucks in Florida and Ohio, not the media who has a hand in how people are viewed, and certainly not the voting system itself which is only 1 day long, and something you don't get compensation for doing (even if you are supposed to), which thereby serves as a deterrent for poor, hourly workers who would probably have voted the exact opposite of George Bush. That's the whole thing about this system is that for 241 years rich white men have run our government, and they are exceedingly good at keeping it that way.

SweetHarmonics

Obama's scum factor < the rest of the field

at least that much should be agreed upon

ryan198

That's only b/c he's barely been involved in government. Once you get in the only way you stay in is to sell out to the real governors of our time corporate owners. They pay off everyone so that they don't have to pay for anything else.

Pearl Jam and toast

ryan198 wrote:

That's awesome, blame liberals for George Bush being elected...not the system, not the cheating fucks in Florida and Ohio, not the media who has a hand in how people are viewed, and certainly not the voting system itself which is only 1 day long, and something you don't get compensation for doing (even if you are supposed to), which thereby serves as a deterrent for poor, hourly workers who would probably have voted the exact opposite of George Bush. That's the whole thing about this system is that for 241 years rich white men have run our government, and they are exceedingly good at keeping it that way.

Did you read what I said?

I was talking about people (who are pretty numerous) who took che's position in the past couple of elections. I'm about as far left as they come, but I'm not going to be an idiot and just not vote. Saying "i'm not voting for Gore or Kerry because they're tools - I just won't vote" is completely moronic. You can do something to try and better a situation or sit there and watch it go down in flames (re-election of bush for example..)

Obama's scum factor < the rest of the field

at least that much should be agreed upon

Definetly.

ryan198

no i understood what you wrote, i just think it'ssilly to suggest that those who didn't vote b/c they didn't like their choices were to blame for bush - i guess i didn't see it that way. i thought my other suggestions for why bush won better explained it.

Pearl Jam and toast

ryan198 wrote:

no i understood what you wrote, i just think it'ssilly to suggest that those who didn't vote b/c they didn't like their choices were to blame for bush - i guess i didn't see it that way. i thought my other suggestions for why bush won better explained it.

Oh there are plenty of reasons, but stuck up leftists are one of them. Both elections were won and lost by a painfully close margin.

norm

Senator Obama will be on 60 Minutes tomorrow night.

B nice

Last Exodus wrote:

If PJ does a Rock for Obama concert, he's done for.

word to yo mutha


ed vedder is a high school dropout...so his endorsement is like the plague

Abuskedti

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I sure hope they dont stump for him. Hopefully they learned their lesson after supporting Kerry in 04. I am in total agreement with pearl Jam's politics, but it always seemed like such a step down to support a wimp like kerry, a mealy mouthed loser, a troubled eyore character.

They should support the antiwar candidate. They should support whoever says to bring the troops home.

As Sean penn said: If you dont have a plan to bring our troops home, you dont deserve to be voted for.

The dems dial for the same bucks as the republicans.

As Tom Morello said: How hard is it for the Dems to have human rights and peace be the platfor they run on?


Again, I dont get this cult of personality around obama. People are more into the image than his policies.

The question remains, the public in November voted antiwar. Will they vote for a dem candidate who isnt antiwar and isnt for pulling the troops home?

they didn't vote anti-war.. they voted against those that brought unnecessary war - and liked it.

Commy

Cheguevara6 wrote:

As Tom Morello said: How hard is it for the Dems to have human rights and peace be the platfor they run on?

seriously.


when your given a choice of 2 candidates, and both support the war, your basically being ruled by a one party system.

fascism, if you will.

Last Exodus

SweetHarmonics wrote:

Obama's scum factor < the rest of the field

at least that much should be agreed upon

If Obama were a Republican who came out and admitted to using weed and cocaine you would be all over him like flys on shit. Give me a break. You guys have annointed this guy saint when the reality is we don't know a fuck thing about the guy. It's way too early to be proclaiming victors isn't it? The debate hasn't even begun, and for most of you the debate doesn't even need to happen. Either support Obama or your a neo-con. Sorry but that shit aint flying. How do you think Saint Obama's weed snort fest in Hawaii is going to play come general election time in the bible belt? Cmon now. Big picture...

Last Exodus

One doesn't need to be a rocket scientist at this stage to say he or she is against the war. The ONLY thing Obama has going for him is he is so new to the Senate he didn't have to cast a vote for Iraq. For him to say he would have voted against it is total bullshit! He would have been deemed a fucking traitor if he hadn't. Even your boy Kerry voted for the war........So now that things have turned to shit, the savior is anyone who says no to the war? Everyone, including Republicans are saying no to George W. Did you miss that whole John Warner coming out against the President thing?

The issue is what's the best way out and when. The truth is no one has the answer. And the man or woman who steps up and admits they dont have the answers, is probably the one you should vote for. Because that's the only person being honest...The reality is we cant just pick up and leave. The entire global economy is at stake in that region. To just pick up and leave would be disastrous.

mca47

Last Exodus wrote:

How do you think Saint Obama's weed snort fest in Hawaii is going to play come general election time in the bible belt? Cmon now. Big picture...

Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.

Last Exodus

Cheguevara6 wrote:

obama shouldnt be the dem candidate in 08. Out nation deserves better. Out of a nation of 300 million plus people, are the best people for the job really Biden, Gore, Clinton, Obama?

I mean is that the best we can do? Is that the opposition party?

The best and brightest know better than to get involved in Politics. Politics, by its nature, caters to the lowest common denominator.

Last Exodus

Cheguevara6 wrote:

how do you square John Kerry being marketed to antiwar types and potential nader votes, or the antiwar crowd, they all were told kerry was antiwar

Why did he promise to do what bush just did? Yeah thats right go google it. back in one of the 04 debates kerry, when asked what he would do about iraq said, "I would send in more troops, I would send about 20,000 more troops in".

I dont vote for dems or republicans because they are both the same. Kerry was funded by the same people Bush was.

Plus, its such a mockery. To get the nomination of your party, research shows that you have to have 150 million. I am not making that number up. There was a study that proved that.

If you have 150 million, or are capable of raising that money, are you really representing the average joe?

The fact is, Kerry was middle of the road. So was gore in 2000. They werent radical lefties. They were centrists.

Centrism lost kerry the election in 04. Why not at least nominate a Kucinich? I mean we dont know that he wouldnt be elected. We know Kerry isnt electable. Centrism doesnt work.

As I said before, the fact is the public is antiwar. Both the Dems and Republicans need the antiwar vote to win. So calling for more troops isnt electable.

Why is it so hard for Dems to come out and be a true opposition party? I mean kerry was pro WTO, pro globalization, wasnt a gay rights advocate (yes he was for unions, but come on people!), was pro buisness.

The fact remains, dems are exactly like republicans. They just are for nicer buisnesses than republicans. But they are all the same.

We need a McGovern, a Bobby Kennedy.

But sadly, those days are over man. The old idealistic democratic party is dead. Since the Clinton years all the Democrats have brought to the table was a milder form of the Repulican party. Same graft. Same agenda. Today it's not a matter of which party, as opposed to which personality to vote for. There are no more bright lines between Dems and Repubs anymore other than shit like choice, and prayer in schools and crap like that. Idealism in the Democratic party is dead. Mediocrity is the standard. Has been for decades now. How else does an idiot like Reagan and a fool like Bush Jr. win two terms? Because the Dems just dont have a message anymore and they nominate unelectable toads. I mean cmon, do y'all remember Dukakis ridin around in that tank? Were they serious?

But alas, I see the same mistake about to happen yet again. Just start sayin it now...President McCain, President McCain...

Pearl Jam and toast

Last Exodus wrote:

But sadly, those days are over man. The old idealistic democratic party is dead. Since the Clinton years all the Democrats have brought to the table was a milder form of the Repulican party. Same graft. Same agenda. Today it's not a matter of which party, as opposed to which personality to vote for. There are no more bright lines between Dems and Repubs anymore other than shit like choice, and prayer in schools and crap like that. Idealism in the Democratic party is dead. Mediocrity is the standard. Has been for decades now. How else does an idiot like Reagan and a fool like Bush Jr. win two terms? Because the Dems just dont have a message anymore and they nominate unelectable toads. I mean cmon, do y'all remember Dukakis ridin around in that tank? Were they serious?

But alas, I see the same mistake about to happen yet again. Just start sayin it now...President McCain, President McCain...

Yeah it's a sad state of affairs..

During the last election I had many an argument in my Us History class about this.. I kept saying "If they only gave a real liberal option they could breathe life back into the people who want to support them against the republicans.." But all I heard was "but they won't win the middle class!". Fuck that, 'middle class' doesn't mean 'conservative'. They're more concerned with trying to bullshit their way into winning elections than supporting it's used-to-be voters.

Obama still gives me a little hope.. I don't think he can win, but it gives me hope. It'd be interesting to see what Gore could do come 2008..

bacchanal

Bu2 wrote:

I got Obama in my room....

and now the question's:
do i kill them?
become their friend?
do i eat them?
raw or well done?
do i trick them?
i don't think they're that dumb
do i join them?
looks like that's the one

hehehehehehe!!! best answer I have heard yet!!! Personally I like Mccain...I like his stance on abortion/the war(to some extent)/gay rights...
seems like the best one so far to me.....I am NOT going green again....too radical for me...I think we need some middle.....not all this Extreem right/Left bullshit....

Last Exodus

mca47 wrote:

Didn't Bush have a history of coke snortin'?
He won pretty easily among those bible types. Obama, another Christian...then again Obama has that crazy name and he's black...shit.

Obama's a christian?? Do your homework. No one's buyin that crap. Certainly not middle america.

Last Exodus

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Yeah it's a sad state of affairs..

During the last election I had many an argument in my Us History class about this.. I kept saying "If they only gave a real liberal option they could breathe life back into the people who want to support them against the republicans.." But all I heard was "but they won't win the middle class!". Fuck that, 'middle class' doesn't mean 'conservative'. They're more concerned with trying to bullshit their way into winning elections than supporting it's used-to-be voters.

Obama still gives me a little hope.. I don't think he can win, but it gives me hope. It'd be interesting to see what Gore could do come 2008..

ah...a pragmatist. what a relief