A question for all those that are sure there is no god.. There is so much we do not know about our universe. Scientists believe there is upwards of 16 dimensions, and our senses only detect 4 of them (3D and time).
Are you spiritual in anyway??? There are documented instances of unexplainable phenomenon.
Do you believe there are things about us and our universe that our brains are just not intelligent enough to comprehend?
Do you believe there are things about us and our universe that our brains are just not intelligent enough to comprehend?
Exactly, that is why people created gods and why religion is shrinking today in the western world. People needed an answer to explain things they can't know in order to feel good about themselves.
What we don't know is if there is a god or not.
That is the point of the agnostic. THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT US AND OUR UNIVERSE THAT OUR BRAINS ARE JUST NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND.
Maybe there is a god.
Maybe there isn't a god.
Agnostics are the only ones who say, "hey, you dont know and I dont know, so lets just settle on that" Why waste your time professing something, believing something, and living something that you don't know is a fact?
Exactly, that is why people created gods and why religion is shrinking today in the western world. People needed an answer to explain things they can't know in order to feel good about themselves.
What we don't know is if there is a god or not.
That is the point of the agnostic. THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT US AND OUR UNIVERSE THAT OUR BRAINS ARE JUST NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND.
Maybe there is a god.
Maybe there isn't a god.
Agnostics are the only ones who say, "hey, you dont know and I dont know, so lets just settle on that" Why waste your time professing something, believing something, and living something that you don't know is a fact?
Makes you wonder about all that we do not know. We have eyes, therefore we can see what's in front of us and make judgements. We have ears, so we know things are there that we can't necissarily see. We have smell, so we can also detect things we can't see or hear. We have touch, another sense that can help us detect things we can't see, hear or smell..
These are the only real senses we need for survival given our conditions on earth. Imagine how many other things there might be that we were not evolved to sense..
Nope. I would know. There would be no need for belief.
Exactly. No need to suspend disbelief.
Nope. Absence of belief doesn't equal belief. It equals reason, or conclusions based on facts presented.
Doesn't really follow. I'm assuming you deny the existance of Santa Clause. So is your denial of Santa Claus based on belief? Mine isn't.
I hear what you are saying. Maybe we just have two definitions of the English word "belief" in mind. You can believe in facts, right? Maybe we shouldn't be using the word "belief" and rather the word "opinion"?
That said, is religion an opinion? And can both sides, believers and non-believers press their opinions on one other.. most definitely yes.
Only in good ol' Washington, eh? I also find this funny. We don't have that kind of entertainment here, having freedom of speach and being used to parctice it.
Weren't you the state with the city that said no to a NASCAR event because you didn't want all the hillbillies around? Classists.
Weren't you the state with the city that said no to a NASCAR event because you didn't want all the hillbillies around? Classists.
NASCAR made the mistake of trying to squeeze in during the housing boom. There were plenty of people in the Snohomish County area that would have been ecstatic to have NASCAR. However, NASCAR and homebuilders were vying for the same land.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
These are the only real senses we need for survival given our conditions on earth. Imagine how many other things there might be that we were not evolved to sense..
Speaking as a vandal, no sign is immune to being defaced, torn down or destroyed....nope, not one.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
I completely disagree. Atheism is not believing in a god. That's not the same as believing there is no god.
The prefix 'a' means without, like in amoral or asymmetry. Without god. Without belief.
OK, I get what you people are saying.. and we've gone way off point.
Putting a sign up that claims there is no god is the same as putting a sign up that claims there is a god... you are going to get the same human reaction of disgust and rebel from both sides.
Look at it from their point of view. They believe the things written in the bible were fact as you know the things written in a science book are fact.. Just understand the human emotions behind it. Religion may make less sense, but the world is grey.
I'm not arguing the sign is right or wrong, fact or fantasy. Religion and other bullshit aside, I'm arguing people don't like it when other people shove their shit at each other.
When somebody goes to celebrate Christmas, its not going to do them or you any good to tell them they are celebrating fiction. The same goes for people trying to get you to join their religion.
whether or not you believe in religion, that was fucked up of them. People need to learn how to mind their own businesses about their beliefs. If your religious or an atheist, don't put anyone who doesn't believe what you believe in down. that sign was uncalled for and it should be taken down.
I don't believe there is a god, but I can't rule out anything in an infinite universe.
Think about that. Infinite. A number the human mind cannot comprehend. Infinite number of possibilities. An infinite number of worlds. An infinite number of worlds identical to our own. Does the universe end and does space and time warp?
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
It wouldn't matter a single little bit. What does it change if it's so far beyond human comprehension? It's just perception, and that's already nebulous enough.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I don't believe there is a god, but I can't rule out anything in an infinite universe.
Think about that. Infinite. A number the human mind cannot comprehend. Infinite number of possibilities. An infinite number of worlds. An infinite number of worlds identical to our own. Does the universe end and does space and time warp?
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
As Agnostics, we're similar to Athiests, except for the fact that if we hold open the slight possibility of there being a god.
...
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
what if i told you i was god?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
OK, I get what you people are saying.. and we've gone way off point.
Putting a sign up that claims there is no god is the same as putting a sign up that claims there is a god... you are going to get the same human reaction of disgust and rebel from both sides.
Look at it from their point of view. They believe the things written in the bible were fact as you know the things written in a science book are fact.. Just understand the human emotions behind it. Religion may make less sense, but the world is grey.
I'm not arguing the sign is right or wrong, fact or fantasy. Religion and other bullshit aside, I'm arguing people don't like it when other people shove their shit at each other.
When somebody goes to celebrate Christmas, its not going to do them or you any good to tell them they are celebrating fiction. The same goes for people trying to get you to join their religion.
I agree, if you push your beliefs on others there will be a reaction. The christians pushed their beliefs on others, atheists reacted by presenting their view. It was not tolerated.
The nativity scene is just the same as a believer telling you about god, Jesus and the bible.
I don't believe there is a god, but I can't rule out anything in an infinite universe.
Think about that. Infinite. A number the human mind cannot comprehend. Infinite number of possibilities. An infinite number of worlds. An infinite number of worlds identical to our own. Does the universe end and does space and time warp?
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
I consider myself atheist because I don't believe there is a god, I see no evidence and basically no reason to even assume there is a god.
However, I have considered that there are an infinite number of possibilities and if there should be something out there, I think it'll be closer to Spinoza's god, which can be described as a force, it is an impersonal god, that doesn't need to be worshipped and has no will. It didn't not want to create man or the world, it just happened through 'it' or 'him'.
I don't like the term god in this sense because it's so far from the common interpretation of the word god. If god is a force that doesn't have anything to do with his creations on a personal level and it creates involuntarily... I see no point in worshipping it. It's like worshipping gravity.
So in conclusion, I don't believe in a god, and if I entertain the thought of a god it would be a god in the form of an impersonal, involuntary detached force, again sort of like gravity.
I agree, if you push your beliefs on others there will be a reaction. The christians pushed their beliefs on others, atheists reacted by presenting their view. It was not tolerated.
The nativity scene is just the same as a believer telling you about god, Jesus and the bible.
I don't buy that. I'm perfectly capable of seeing other people celebrating their beliefs without feeling like they're pushing it on me. The nativity scene might show people what they believe in, but they're not pushing it down your throat anymore than a sign advertising a sale is making you buy stuff.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I don't buy that. I'm perfectly capable of seeing other people celebrating their beliefs without feeling like they're pushing it on me. The nativity scene might show people what they believe in, but they're not pushing it down your throat anymore than a sign advertising a sale is making you buy stuff.
I see your point, but it's a statement of belief, there can be a reaction. I think the majority of atheists would not have put up that sign, but it's not surprising that someone did. If you choose to 'celebrate' your beliefs in public you know you are confronting people with your beliefs. It's only logical that not everyone will believe the same thing as you and they might want to express their opinions.
Maybe 'pushing' isn't the right word, but then again it's not like they only put up a nativity scene. There's the nativity scene, god is mentioned on the money, discrimination against atheists, god in the pledge of allegiance, intolerance towards other groups (homosexuals), political influence (Bush "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.")
I see your point, but it's a statement of belief, there can be a reaction. I think the majority of atheists would not have put up that sign, but it's not surprising that someone did. If you choose to 'celebrate' your beliefs in public you know you are confronting people with your beliefs. It's only logical that not everyone will believe the same thing as you and they might want to express their opinions.
Maybe 'pushing' isn't the right word, but then again it's not like they only put up a nativity scene. There's the nativity scene, god is mentioned on the money, discrimination against atheists, god in the pledge of allegiance, intolerance towards other groups (homosexuals), political influence (Bush "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.")
I'm not saying there aren't examples of one faith being pushed over another, or indeed, over a lack of faith. But in my opinion, that's even more proof that this particular demonstration was misplaced - there are far worse, and far more... assertive... cases of religious inequality than a nativity scene. For the Freedom From Religion group to target the nativity scene in this way just makes the atheist "movement" look kind of juvenile. If they had tried to celebrate the Winter Solstice without crapping all over religion, they'd look like reasonable people trying to celebrate their particular holiday. Now, they look like people who can only celebrate their holiday at the expense of religion - and that's the exact kind of exclusionary tactic they should be railing against.
It just seems to me that anyone who gets offended by relatively innocuous religious displays is probably, for lack of a better way of putting it, trying to get offended. I live in Ireland - sometimes it seems like I can barely move without seeing a crucifix, or some representation of Catholicism. But I don't feel like it's being rammed down my throat unless it's specifically telling me I'm wrong not to believe - otherwise, it's just people expressing what they believe, and I think they're entitled to that. It's when the Catholic Church is granted a "special position" in the Irish Constitution, or when Bush questions whether atheists are citizens that the real problem arises, and that's what people should be taking issue with.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
Because it affects what happens to society. Bush's belief that it is god's will to save the people from Iraq has an impact on me.
If people did mind their own business and didn't affect other people, we would get along just fine...unfortunately that doesn't happen.
That is where agnosticism works. We don't know so don't act like you do.
Yup. Bush read the Bible daily and used it for guidance throughout his presidency. Apparently that book led him wide of the mark.
That is why it is dangerous for people to base their lives and actions on mythologies. "Oh, it's God's will". "Whatever happens is God's plan." Blah, blah, blah.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Yup. Bush read the Bible daily and used it for guidance throughout his presidency. Apparently that book led him wide of the mark.
That is why it is dangerous for people to base their lives and actions on mythologies. "Oh, it's God's will". "Whatever happens is God's plan." Blah, blah, blah.
Please don't judge all of Christianity based on Bush. He did a lot of things that are very un-Christian indeed, and, believe it or not, there are a lot of Christians who don't support him.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
Please don't judge all of Christianity based on Bush. He did a lot of things that are very un-Christian indeed, and, believe it or not, there are a lot of Christians who don't support him.
I don't know about jeffbr but I certainly don't judge all of christianity based on Bush. Christianity itself doesn't have the most christian history either.
That being said, I do many many christians are good people, who don't support Bush... but that doesn't change anything about the potential dangerous side of religion. History has taught us that religion has been a source of war and destruction. The violence is always justified, because everyone believes god is on their side.
And that's a point I like to stress. What is christian and what is un-christian? Your believes come from a book, the same book Bush consulted, many believers hear god speaking in their hearts, so did Bush.
I truly see no difference between Bush who says:
"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."
and you, for example, who says it's not the christian way.
I always give the people who preach for peace and understanding and love the benefit of the doubt. But the truth is no believer knows god or what he is thinking, no one knows whether god talked to Bush or not, no one knows if god has appointed a new prophet or leader...
Comments
You are going by the facts before you.. You don't see god, so you don't believe.
I'm still thinking you don't believe in god, which is still a belief of yours. You believe its all a fairy tale, another belief of yours.
If you didn't have a belief, you would have no reason to even read this thread. It wouldn't effect you either way.
Are you spiritual in anyway??? There are documented instances of unexplainable phenomenon.
Do you believe there are things about us and our universe that our brains are just not intelligent enough to comprehend?
Exactly, that is why people created gods and why religion is shrinking today in the western world. People needed an answer to explain things they can't know in order to feel good about themselves.
What we don't know is if there is a god or not.
That is the point of the agnostic. THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT US AND OUR UNIVERSE THAT OUR BRAINS ARE JUST NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO COMPREHEND.
Maybe there is a god.
Maybe there isn't a god.
Agnostics are the only ones who say, "hey, you dont know and I dont know, so lets just settle on that" Why waste your time professing something, believing something, and living something that you don't know is a fact?
Nope. I would know. There would be no need for belief.
Exactly. No need to suspend disbelief.
Nope. Absence of belief doesn't equal belief. It equals reason, or conclusions based on facts presented.
Doesn't really follow. I'm assuming you deny the existance of Santa Clause. So is your denial of Santa Claus based on belief? Mine isn't.
These are the only real senses we need for survival given our conditions on earth. Imagine how many other things there might be that we were not evolved to sense..
That said, is religion an opinion? And can both sides, believers and non-believers press their opinions on one other.. most definitely yes.
Weren't you the state with the city that said no to a NASCAR event because you didn't want all the hillbillies around? Classists.
NASCAR made the mistake of trying to squeeze in during the housing boom. There were plenty of people in the Snohomish County area that would have been ecstatic to have NASCAR. However, NASCAR and homebuilders were vying for the same land.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
So why make assumptions?
I completely disagree. Atheism is not believing in a god. That's not the same as believing there is no god.
The prefix 'a' means without, like in amoral or asymmetry. Without god. Without belief.
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Putting a sign up that claims there is no god is the same as putting a sign up that claims there is a god... you are going to get the same human reaction of disgust and rebel from both sides.
Look at it from their point of view. They believe the things written in the bible were fact as you know the things written in a science book are fact.. Just understand the human emotions behind it. Religion may make less sense, but the world is grey.
I'm not arguing the sign is right or wrong, fact or fantasy. Religion and other bullshit aside, I'm arguing people don't like it when other people shove their shit at each other.
When somebody goes to celebrate Christmas, its not going to do them or you any good to tell them they are celebrating fiction. The same goes for people trying to get you to join their religion.
8/7/08, 6/9/09
I don't believe there is a god, but I can't rule out anything in an infinite universe.
Think about that. Infinite. A number the human mind cannot comprehend. Infinite number of possibilities. An infinite number of worlds. An infinite number of worlds identical to our own. Does the universe end and does space and time warp?
What if someone told you there was a god. No, two gods. No, an infinite number of gods.. or that we are "god", created of the stars, by the stars, part of the intuition of the universe as a whole..
As Agnostics, we're similar to Athiests, except for the fact that if we hold open the slight possibility of there being a god.
what if i told you i was god?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i require no repentance. im not a vengeful god.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I agree, if you push your beliefs on others there will be a reaction. The christians pushed their beliefs on others, atheists reacted by presenting their view. It was not tolerated.
The nativity scene is just the same as a believer telling you about god, Jesus and the bible.
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I consider myself atheist because I don't believe there is a god, I see no evidence and basically no reason to even assume there is a god.
However, I have considered that there are an infinite number of possibilities and if there should be something out there, I think it'll be closer to Spinoza's god, which can be described as a force, it is an impersonal god, that doesn't need to be worshipped and has no will. It didn't not want to create man or the world, it just happened through 'it' or 'him'.
I don't like the term god in this sense because it's so far from the common interpretation of the word god. If god is a force that doesn't have anything to do with his creations on a personal level and it creates involuntarily... I see no point in worshipping it. It's like worshipping gravity.
So in conclusion, I don't believe in a god, and if I entertain the thought of a god it would be a god in the form of an impersonal, involuntary detached force, again sort of like gravity.
naděje umírá poslední
I see your point, but it's a statement of belief, there can be a reaction. I think the majority of atheists would not have put up that sign, but it's not surprising that someone did. If you choose to 'celebrate' your beliefs in public you know you are confronting people with your beliefs. It's only logical that not everyone will believe the same thing as you and they might want to express their opinions.
Maybe 'pushing' isn't the right word, but then again it's not like they only put up a nativity scene. There's the nativity scene, god is mentioned on the money, discrimination against atheists, god in the pledge of allegiance, intolerance towards other groups (homosexuals), political influence (Bush "No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.")
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Mind ya fucking business and we'll get along just fine.
Because it affects what happens to society. Bush's belief that it is god's will to save the people from Iraq has an impact on me.
If people did mind their own business and didn't affect other people, we would get along just fine...unfortunately that doesn't happen.
That is where agnosticism works. We don't know so don't act like you do.
It just seems to me that anyone who gets offended by relatively innocuous religious displays is probably, for lack of a better way of putting it, trying to get offended. I live in Ireland - sometimes it seems like I can barely move without seeing a crucifix, or some representation of Catholicism. But I don't feel like it's being rammed down my throat unless it's specifically telling me I'm wrong not to believe - otherwise, it's just people expressing what they believe, and I think they're entitled to that. It's when the Catholic Church is granted a "special position" in the Irish Constitution, or when Bush questions whether atheists are citizens that the real problem arises, and that's what people should be taking issue with.
Yup. Bush read the Bible daily and used it for guidance throughout his presidency. Apparently that book led him wide of the mark.
That is why it is dangerous for people to base their lives and actions on mythologies. "Oh, it's God's will". "Whatever happens is God's plan." Blah, blah, blah.
Please don't judge all of Christianity based on Bush. He did a lot of things that are very un-Christian indeed, and, believe it or not, there are a lot of Christians who don't support him.
I don't know about jeffbr but I certainly don't judge all of christianity based on Bush. Christianity itself doesn't have the most christian history either.
That being said, I do many many christians are good people, who don't support Bush... but that doesn't change anything about the potential dangerous side of religion. History has taught us that religion has been a source of war and destruction. The violence is always justified, because everyone believes god is on their side.
And that's a point I like to stress. What is christian and what is un-christian? Your believes come from a book, the same book Bush consulted, many believers hear god speaking in their hearts, so did Bush.
I truly see no difference between Bush who says:
"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."
and you, for example, who says it's not the christian way.
I always give the people who preach for peace and understanding and love the benefit of the doubt. But the truth is no believer knows god or what he is thinking, no one knows whether god talked to Bush or not, no one knows if god has appointed a new prophet or leader...
naděje umírá poslední