Washington State Atheist Sign Stolen

South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
edited December 2008 in A Moving Train
(CNN) -- An atheist sign criticizing Christianity that was erected alongside a Nativity scene was taken from the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington, on Friday and later found in a ditch.
The Freedom from Religion Foundation had a placard up in the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington.

The Freedom from Religion Foundation had a placard up in the Legislative Building in Olympia, Washington.

********************************************************************************
Here's the what the sign says:

At This Season of THE WINTER SOLSTICE may reason prevail.
There are no Gods, no Devils, no Angels, no Heaven or Hell.
There is only our Natural World.
Religion is but Myth and Superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.


********************************************************************************

An employee from country radio station KMPS-FM in Seattle told CNN the sign was dropped off at the station by someone who found it in a ditch.

"I thought it would be safe," Freedom From Religion Foundation co-founder Annie Laurie Gaylor told CNN earlier Friday. "It's always a shock when your sign is censored or stolen or mutilated. It's not something you get used to."

The sign, which celebrates the winter solstice, has had some residents and Christian organizations calling atheists Scrooges because they said it was attacking the celebration of Jesus Christ's birth.

"Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds," the sign from the Freedom From Religion Foundation says in part.

The sign, which was at the Legislative Building at 6:30 a.m. PT, was gone by 7:30 a.m., Gaylor said.

The incident will not stifle the group's message, Gaylor said. Before reports of the placard's recovery, she said a temporary sign with the same message would be placed in the building's Rotunda. Gaylor said a note would be attached saying, "Thou shalt not steal."
Don't Miss

* iReport.com: Over-the-top holiday displays?

"I guess they don't follow their own commandments," Gaylor said. "There's nothing out there with the atheist point of view, and now there is such a firestorm that we have the audacity to exist. And then [whoever took the sign] stifles our speech."

Gaylor said that police are checking security cameras pointed at the building's entrances and exits to see if they can see anyone stealing the sign.

"It's probably about 50 pounds, " Gaylor said. "My brother-in-law was huffing and puffing carrying it up the stairs. It's definitely not something you can stick under your arm or conceal."

The Washington State Patrol, which is handling the incident, could not be reached for comment.

Dan Barker, a former evangelical preacher and co-founder of the group, said it was important for atheists to see their viewpoints validated alongside everyone else's.

Barker said the display is especially important given that 25 percent of Washington state residents are unaffiliated with religion or do not believe in God. (A recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found 23 percent of Washingtonians said they were unaffiliated with a religion and 7 percent said they didn't believe in God.)

"It's not that we are trying to coerce anyone; in a way our sign is a signal of protest," Barker said. "If there can be a Nativity scene saying that we are all going to hell if we don't bow down to Jesus, we should be at the table to share our views."

He said if anything, it's the Nativity scene that is the intrusion.

"Most people think December is for Christians and view our signs as an intrusion, when actually it's the other way around," he said. "People have been celebrating the winter solstice long before Christmas. We see Christianity as the intruder, trying to steal the holiday from all of us humans."

The scene in Washington state is not unfamiliar. Barker has had signs in Madison, Wisconsin, for 13 years. The placard is often turned around so the message can't be seen, and one year, someone threw acid on it, forcing the group to encase it in Plexiglas.

In Washington, D.C., the American Humanist Association began a bus ad campaign this month questioning belief in God.

"Why believe in a God?" the advertisement asks. "Just be good for goodness sake."

That ad has caused the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority to field hundreds of complaints, the group said, but it has heard just as much positive feedback, said Fred Edwords, the association's spokesman.

Edwords said the ad campaign, which features a shrugging Santa Claus, was not meant to attack Christmas but rather to reach out to an untapped audience.

Edwords maintains the campaign began in December mostly because the group had extra money left over for the year. The connection to Christmas is a coincidence, he said.

"There are a lot of people out there who don't know there are organizations like ours to serve their needs," Edwords said. "The thing is, to reach a minority group, in order to be heard, everyone in the room has to hear you, even when they don't want to."

The ad campaign, Edwords said, is to make people think. He said he doesn't expect to "convert" anyone.

But the Christian Coalition of America is urging members to oppose the advertisements.

"Although a number of humanists and atheists continue to attempt to rid God and Christmas from the public square, the American people are overwhelmingly opposed to such efforts," Roberta Combs, the group's president said in a press release.

"We will ask our millions of supporters to call the city of Washington, D.C., and Congress to stop this un-Godly campaign."

As far as the criticism goes, Edwords said there are far more controversial placards in Washington.

"That's D.C. -- this is a political center," he said. "If I can see a placard with dead fetuses on it, I think someone can look at our question and just think about it."

The anger over the display in Olympia began after it was assembled Monday. The sentiment grew after some national media personalities called upon viewers to flood the phone lines of the governor's office.

The governor's office told The Seattle Times it received more than 200 calls an hour afterward.

"I happen to be a Christian, and I don't agree with the display that is up there," Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire told The Olympian newspaper. "But that doesn't mean that as governor, I have the right to deny their ability to express their free speech."

For some, the issue isn't even that the atheists are putting their thoughts on display, but rather the way in which they are doing it.

"They are shooting themselves in the foot," said iReport contributor Rich Phillips, who describes himself as an atheist. "Everyone's out there for the holidays, trying to represent their religion, their beliefs, and it's a time to be positive."

The atheist message was never intended to attack anyone, Barker said.

"When people ask us, 'Why are you hateful? Why are you putting up something critical of people's holidays? -- we respond that we kind of feel that the Christian message is the hate message," he said. "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways."




As an Agnostic, I even feel that the Atheist sign is ridiculous. If it didn't use blunt wording, it would have been OK by me. It just kinda feels almost like hate speech with these words "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds,"

What do you all think?
NERDS!
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • Grace7Grace7 Posts: 53
    Bill O'Reilly must have had a field day w/ this!! Talk radio overdrive!!!
    Sorry, it's a little funny.
    It appears to be a little in your face. They could have placed it elsewhere not next to the nativity!!

    peace
  • einatshauleinatshaul Posts: 2,219
    Only in good ol' Washington, eh? I also find this funny. We don't have that kind of entertainment here, having freedom of speach and being used to parctice it.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Grace7 wrote:
    Bill O'Reilly must have had a field day w/ this!! Talk radio overdrive!!!
    Sorry, it's a little funny.
    It appears to be a little in your face. They could have placed it elsewhere not next to the nativity!!

    peace


    but where better than beside the most recognisable symbol of this christian celebration?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    O'reilly did have a field day with this one I think.


    No one makes people participate in Holidays. If someone, or someplace wants to put a Christmas tree up go ahead and do it. If you don't like it, you can go somewhere else.

    I don't get why it's such a big deal? :confused:
    NERDS!
  • 14RAY5514RAY55 Mami Posts: 109
    I believe religion is a myth but the hardens hearts and enslaves minds part is pure negativity. There has to be better ways to get the point across.
    Still Alive And Well In Miami
    4-23-92 Miami,8-22-92 Miami,3-28-94 Miami,10-07-96 Ft.Laud.,9-22-98 WPB,9-23-98 WPB,8-9-00 WPB,8-10-00 WPB,4-11-03 WPB,7-16-06 S.F.,7-18-06 S.F.,7-22-06 Gorge,6-11-08 WPB,6-12-08 Tampa,10-23-10 Moun.View,10-24-10 Moun.View
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    14RAY55 wrote:
    I believe religion is a myth but the hardens hearts and enslaves minds part is pure negativity. There has to be better ways to get the point across.

    what would you suggest? appeal to reason? perhaps to logic?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    what would you suggest? appeal to reason? perhaps to logic?

    They could've just left that part out maybe?

    It's just too broad of a statement for me. I've met a lot of religious people I wouldn't save from a burning car and I've also met some that are the nicest people on earth. That statement doesn't separate the two.
    NERDS!
  • Urban HikerUrban Hiker Posts: 1,312
    I like this
    Walking can be a real trip
    ***********************
    "We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
    ***********************
    Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
  • South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    I like this

    That's much better, it's festive. And if you've got bad eyes, you would think it just says season's greetings ;):)
    NERDS!
  • I dunno, putting that next to the Nativity scene just seems like an asshole move. I'm as atheist as they come, but if you want to celebrate atheism, you can do it without looking like a vindictive ass.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • einatshauleinatshaul Posts: 2,219
    Being both Jewish, and a skeptic... This doesn't offend me at all. However, I do see how the particular placing and timing is offensive to Christians. Nonetheless, political correctness was never my cup of tea.

    It's an Obamanation
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    does anyone know if atheisits put up their signs and alternate views anywhere else besides Christian establishments?

    it would be interesting to see.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,628
    ajedigecko wrote:
    does anyone know if atheisits put up their signs and alternate views anywhere else besides Christian establishments?

    it would be interesting to see.
    so you are saying that PUBLIC property i.e a Government Building is a "Christian Establishment"?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    I am all for the atheist sign display and have no issue at all with it's placement at the state's capitol next to the other religious/holiday viewpoints.

    I do think the creep who stole and ditched the sign should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
  • Try this on for size:

    Fuck religion.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    As an Agnostic, I even feel that the Atheist sign is ridiculous. If it didn't use blunt wording, it would have been OK by me. It just kinda feels almost like hate speech with these words "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds,"

    What do you all think?

    I don't think it is hate speech any more than having an Christian tell us that if we don't repent and accept Jesus we'll go to hell.

    I also don't think that truth can be considered hate speech. And lastly, I'm not big on the whole notion of hate speech anyway. I don't know how it can be defined without violating the 1st Ammendment. And I care more about the Constitution than making sure religionists aren't offended.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I don't think putting this sign up was a dick move because it's at the Legislative Building... if it were next to a nativity scene at a church it'd be different. If Christians are able to put up a religious display on public property, then all other religious believers and non-believers should be free to do so as well. Of course, there really shouldn't be any such displays on government property.

    The "thou shalt not steal" note on the replacement sign is very funny, I thought. But anyway, they've found the original sign, in a ditch.

    I'm just happy to see athiests taking a stand, and I think the message on the sign is brilliant.
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    I find it ironic that atheists despise when religions push their beliefs down people's throats, yet a leading atheist organization does the exact same thing. But it's okay, because they're right. :rolleyes:

    Billboards saying "God loves you" is intrusive, but billboards saying "Reason's Greetings" aren't. Right.

    Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this? I'm in no way pro-religion, but this pisses me off.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    DOSW wrote:
    I find it ironic that atheists despise when religions push their beliefs down people's throats, yet a leading atheist organization does the exact same thing. But it's okay, because they're right. :rolleyes:

    Billboards saying "God loves you" is intrusive, but billboards saying "Reason's Greetings" aren't. Right.

    Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this? I'm in no way pro-religion, but this pisses me off.

    Athiests are not pushing beliefs, we don't have any to push. We just want to get our point across, and we should feel free to do so. Furthermore, athiests didn't steal the nativity scene. Who's being intolerant here?
  • Kenny Olav wrote:
    Athiests are not pushing beliefs, we don't have any to push. We just want to get our point across, and we should feel free to do so. Furthermore, athiests didn't steal the nativity scene. Who's being intolerant here?
    Both sides.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Both sides.
    How are the atheists being intolerant in this situation?
  • aNiMaL wrote:
    How are the atheists being intolerant in this situation?
    Putting a sign that says "Religion is but Myth and Superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." right next to a nativity scene seems fairly intolerant to me. If they had put it up somewhere else, I'd be okay with it, but putting it right next to the Christian display just seems deliberately spiteful. And if it had been put somewhere else, I'd wager it wouldn't have been stolen.

    But hey, then we likely wouldn't have media involvement.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Putting a sign that says "Religion is but Myth and Superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." right next to a nativity scene seems fairly intolerant to me. If they had put it up somewhere else, I'd be okay with it, but putting it right next to the Christian display just seems deliberately spiteful. And if it had been put somewhere else, I'd wager it wouldn't have been stolen.

    But hey, then we likely wouldn't have media involvement.
    Ehhh, if it was a church, your argument would have merit. Both parties, the Christians and the atheists, had to go through the same approval process to display their holiday stuff in the public legislative building, the state capitol. A couple years ago we also had a Monera on display because a local Rabi went through the approval process to get his religion equal rights in the state capitol to more evenly represent the people that make up our state. Just because the Christians get their display approved first, there's should be the only one and opinion on display? Poppycock.
  • aNiMaL wrote:
    Ehhh, if it was a church, your argument would have merit. Both parties, the Christians and the atheists, had to go through the same approval process to display their holiday stuff in the public legislative building, the state capitol. A couple years ago we also had a Monera on display because a local Rabi went through the approval process to get his religion equal rights in the state capitol to more evenly represent the people that make up our state. Just because the Christians get their display approved first, there's should be the only one and opinion on display? Poppycock.
    I'm not saying the Christian display should be the only one there. But the atheist display could have celebrated the Winter Solstice all it liked without pointlessly attacking religion, particularly since the Nativity scene is offensive to precisely nobody - "On that Nativity scene, there is this threat of internal violence if we don't submit to that master. Hate speech goes both ways." is absolute nonsense. The atheist foundations can harp on all they want about being victimised by Christian groups, but they just look like idiots when they're doing the exact same thing to a very innocent display.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    mickeyrat wrote:
    so you are saying that PUBLIC property i.e a Government Building is a "Christian Establishment"?
    mistake on my part, i can admit it. a government building should not be considered an establishment for any faith.

    that being said.....you avoided the basic premise of the question. i would like to see atheists protest something new.

    seriously i would......i am real close to joining the atheist train but need something more than "blame it on the Christians".
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,628
    ajedigecko wrote:
    mistake on my part, i can admit it. a government building should not be considered an establishment for any faith.

    that being said.....you avoided the basic premise of the question. i would like to see atheists protest something new.

    seriously i would......i am real close to joining the atheist train but need something more than "blame it on the Christians".
    I would probably put it to christianity being an easy target that way.plus these "attacks " on established religions is a real easy way to make the news, isn't it.

    Not a fan of it but I don't really have anything against it either. That's the beautiful thing about our country. Freedom to express and on the flip side the freedom to ignore.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Here's a question: if this Freedom from Religion group had put up a Winter Solstice display first (without the anti-religion slant) and a Christian group had put up a sign next to it saying "Yeah, but seriously, atheists are idiots, and going to hell", would people be sympathetic to the Christians in this case?
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • ajedigeckoajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,430
    mickeyrat wrote:
    I would probably put it to christianity being an easy target that way.plus these "attacks " on established religions is a real easy way to make the news, isn't it.

    Not a fan of it but I don't really have anything against it either. That's the beautiful thing about our country. Freedom to express and on the flip side the freedom to ignore.
    i respect that you have stated "easy target".

    for me, i have never liked the easy target. i can tell you, with all honesty, it is not easy being a Christian. i say this with no disrespect to the atheists belief or any belief, for that matter.

    lastly, i know that we have much more in common than we do not.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 40,628
    ajedigecko wrote:
    i respect that you have stated "easy target".

    for me, i have never liked the easy target. i can tell you, with all honesty, it is not easy being a Christian. i say this with no disrespect to the atheists belief or any belief, for that matter.

    lastly, i know that we have much more in common than we do not.
    I do wonder now though, why they(athieists) haven't expressed their disagreement with either Judaism or Islam being that all three religions have the same root in monotheism. Or even the Mormons for that matter.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • DOSWDOSW Posts: 2,014
    Kenny Olav wrote:
    Athiests are not pushing beliefs, we don't have any to push. We just want to get our point across, and we should feel free to do so. Furthermore, athiests didn't steal the nativity scene. Who's being intolerant here?

    How is putting a display in public for all to see, which bashes religion and tells people what to think, not pushing beliefs on unwanting people?

    It's the equivalent of Christians putting up a sign that says "Believe in Jesus or you will go to hell," which would be blatantly offensive and a clear example of pushing a belief system on unwanting people. It's the same thing.

    Yes, a nativity scene should not be placed in front of a civic building. It should be taken down. But to claim that putting a sign up which is blatantly offensive and obtrusive to others' belief systems is somehow OK, when atheists continually preach against it, is ridiculous.
    It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Sign In or Register to comment.