Your Thoughts on Withdrawing from Iraq
NCfan
Posts: 945
What do you guys think will happen if we withdrawl from Iraq? I think a civil war would ensue that may take years to define a winner. In the meantime, Al Qaida and other terrorist organizations will have a lawless territory where they can hide and plot against the West. Meanwhile, Iran and Syria will become emboldened and will certainly support the Shia forces fighting in the civil war. Iran will obtain a nuclear weapon or nuclear material which they can give to any terrorist group they wish. Remember, Iran created and sponsors Hizbollah. Seems to me that anyone who thinks Iraq isn't connected to wider geopolitics doesn't know what their talking about. At this point, Iraq isn't about an unlawful war launched by a liar president under false pretenses. It might have been about that in the begining. But at this point, winning in Iraq has much larger implications. We cannot fail there or we will forfeit our position of dominance in the world to terrorists and theocratic states.
So what are your thoughts?
So what are your thoughts?
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stop with the oil bullshit. America isnt there to control Iraqs oil. Last I checked america and all other industrialized nations need oil. Oil is important. and so is fighting terrorism and giving control of the middle east to Iran.
these fighters in Iraq you speak of arent defending Iraq. they are foreign fighters defending osama bin laden and the koran.
the ones killing each other are defending Iraq, or al least the territory they claim to be theirs.
So you are okay with groups like Al-Qaida having a safe haven where they can strengthen, grow, train and plot attacks on Western civilization? Because if we leave, that will certainly happen. Just to be clear here, you do realize what these groups stand for, correct?
And a large note to you... it pisses me off when people are too pussy to answer simple qustions becuase the obvious answers invalidates their fucked up ideology...
About the only way to fix this problem is by inventing a time machine and never going in in the first place. However, I'm a realist, and I know that's not possible. So, I say do our best to stabilize where we can while gradually pulling out our troops over the next few months to a year. Or, in a more likely scenario, wait until we get another president and then start the pull out - which will take a few months to a year and, generally, have the same overall effect as doing it now.
I don't know. Maybe if we wait, we'll get more of that sweet sweet victory than we have now. Being unable to recognize what that victory looks like, and with everyone in support of this war being completely unable to describe to me what said victory looks like, I'm not sure how much of it we have now, so therefore won't be able to make a comparison with how much of it we'll have later.
Oh, and for accuracy's sake, the word "ensue" you used after "civil war" should be changed to "continue."
Really really bad idea to invade but once they did it, good luck pulling out.
Pulling out is only going to cause even more bloodshed. Yeah everybody will be happy that the US is gone...except that then they remember how much they hate the sunni's or the shiites and we have this nice big power stuggle until some new dictator is chosen (who may even be worse than Saddam) and he whips everyone into shape for another 2 decades and the bulk of the people of the country are still dirt poor while the new dictator builds palaces for himself on oil money....
It was a remarkably stupid idea to invade Iraq in the first place. Now that we've caused so many problems, it's pretty much our deal to repair the mess too.
The iraqui government is not strong enough to stave off a civil war.
The only victory would be in protecting the new governement until they are strong enough to defend themselves.
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Iraqis dont want us to fix anything, they want us to leave. At least that is the sense that i get. And we should let them resolve their problems between them I think they are capable of doing it.
there's more to it then letting Iraqis fix it themselves. what if they dont and el queda or Iran take over?
better idea is to stay until its fixed correctly. with a united sovereign government. is this possible? I hope so, I dont know yet.
I got news for you - its happening all over the world thanks to the intellectual geniuses (and chickenhawks) who thought that invading and occupying an Arab nation (unprovoked nonetheless) would somehow CURB terrorism and help Israel.
The people of the ME aren't stupid. I have my doubts about many Americans and people who supported this "war".
You don't think Al Qaeda has safe have in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia???
yet we export BILLIONS of dollars in weapons and technologoy to them.
Terrorism cannot be defated by governments - only thru the ppl.
And bombing the fuck out of Iraq, and occupying the country, while torturing its citizens, stealing its wealth, and destroying its infrastructure, shutting out Iraqis from the reconstruction process (while US companies make a huge profit from it) certainly won't help our image in the ME.
As long as we are there Iraq will never have a sovereing goverment
Yes, the plan to invade and ocupy and ME country was intelectual genious. The problem is, the war planners and the administration completely fucked up the implementation. There is no reason our military couldn't control the country and then allow a political solution to develop.
Just like you said, terrorism can only be defeated by the people. Well, ALL of the people over there are controled by opressive governments who control them and their attitudes through lies and propaganda. The BEST way to influence them is by showing them their are alternatives to theocracy or dictators. Iraq was going to be that example, but we fucked it up.
not completely true. we just need to turn over security to them and send the combat troops home. training officers and some military people will stay to help. but I know what you meant.
I really don't understand this line of thinking. Honestly I don't. How was INVADING iraq a good idea? This thinking was drummed up by a bunch of pseudo intellectuals like Wolfowitz, Feith, perle, Adelman, Kristol, Rumsfeld, etc....who have no military experience or human capital invested in the outcome. Yet the thought we would be welcomed a liberators with flowers....remember that?
When has invading an occupying a country ever worked.
These very dictators you mention above are mainly funded by US arms sales, oil money, and military tehcnology exported by the US.
And I fail to see how invading a country unprovoked and "Shock n Awe" is somehow good for the people of Iraq. They have suffered enough.
yeah i get it, a phasing out process. ok. but those training officers and military people that are left behind are the ones who are going to have all the power in Iraq. I know its all a matter of trust. We dont trust them to do this because we think all arabs are nuts. But when have we really trusted them? maybe if we just let them be we might be surprised at the result. We already did them a favor by taking out Sadaam now let do them another and get the F out.
they wont have all the power. they are there to help. and we do trust people in Iraq. and at some point we will let them be and be there at the same time. like we are in saudi arabia, kuwait, Qatar, UAE...
There is an old joke here in PR. ill try and translate it maybe it wont be as funny but im not trying to get laffs.
An turist arrives in the airport and grabs a cab, he tells the cabbie "take me to the governors mansion" and the cabbie takes him to Admirals quarters in the largerst naval base.
That is the reality. We may have our own goverment and constitution but when the shit hits the fan everyone in this island knows whos the boss.
i think the sky will startt falling. the anti-christ will assume control of the middle east and the end times will begin. my children will all get smallpox and my bank will collapse and ill end up homeless. then ill become impotent from the stress of pissing myself about iran all day cos im SO scared of them. and my wife wil leave me for an arabic oil prince. life as we know it will cease to exist.
duh.
Hey Fred, your logic here is fueled by all the common anti- war shallow thinking short sightedness that so many gullible liberals have bought in to. Invading was a good idea for countless reasons but the most pressing was to start to instill some sense of modern and civilized governing in the region. To provide a nation that had run amuck in countless ways a new start and to be that example.To help prevent the ongoing intrusion of fundamental idiocy that is a cancer to society. Your so called psuedo intells are experienced leaders of this nation and I don't want to be represented in the real world by some intellectual that has never had to prove himself in the real world. Your comment about experience and capital invested is just ignorant. We were welcomed as liberators by millions and supported all American Iraqi's as well. The fact that the militaristic fundamentalist have made a stand and rushed to the country to prevent modern governing should be proof that we needed to start this campaign. When has occupation worked you ask, well how about Germany my country of birth, and Japan for starters. How about Panama and Grenada, they all worked. There aren't really very many examples though because we are not INVADERS. We are fixers. The rest of your comments are just socialist pablum. Good day
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you know, there was another regime not long ago tht felt they should be the dominant force on the international scene and felt it was perfectly acceptbale to invade whatever country was necessary to effect that. they started with the rhineland and then went on to poland, france, etc. you sound like enough of a testosterone fueled, arrogant, ethnocentric military buff to know how that one turned out.
1) what the fuck do i care if america has a "position of dominance"?
2) when in the history of the world has it been considered acceptable for one country to invade another solely to overthrow its leadership and turn it into a puppet for its own purposes?
come on soul tell us how you really feel.
I'm a big believer in cleaning up your own messes, and if I thought there were some way to set this right I'd be in favor of it regardless of how long it might take or how much it might cost. This was one of the great fuck-ups of all time, and I do think we have a responsibility to the people whose country we destroyed. It's just that I've yet to hear one realistic idea of what we can do that might make a real, positive difference without further inflaming the entire region. It may very well be that Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again, and we'll just have to live with the consequences of that.
fuck if I know but I will never say never. concessions, restraint, understanding will need to be made on both sides for it to work. can it? I am a little more optimistic than you. but I dont know. they can still hold loyalties while trying to be part of a united government with one common goal of a peaceful strong Iraq. am I dreaming? maybe. but I have never been there, I dont know the people. I do know that shiite and sunnis live in peace in certain parts of the country. thats a good sign.
I completely agree. I dont want to cut and run on the mess we made for a few reasons. one being we owe it to the Iraq people to help and 2 its in america's best interest to have a stable Iraq.
that is how i feel. i feel you're all a bunch of cowardly, paranoid war-mongers and that if we pull out of iraq it wont affect me one godamn bit. they will escalate their civil war for a while, then someone will take over. whoop-dee-freaking-do. americans will stop dying over there, iraq will be in the same position they were before we got there, america will have a black eye and look like the dumbasses we were, and life will go on. iran will not change. nor will syria. nor will anything else. my life will not change, and i will not be any less safe than i am now. in fact, it might give us an opportunity to be even safer by deploying our military in a manner that might actually be helpful.
We are currently not doing anything for them.. By patroling some of their main streets, all we provide is more tension.
If we really want to help, we need to send a half million troops or more - and give them a secrure place to work on their future.
If we are not willing to do that, the best we can do for them is leave it to them.