Here's something for all you Commies.

Cosmo

farfromglorified wrote:

Meh....every culture has its fair share of idols, some with more talent than others. I hear where you're coming from on that though!

I'm much more concerned about business owners who makes their money via laws that actively suppress their competition than I ever will be about a hotel heiress that sells an image of her lifestyle. The latter can be ignored. The former is armed.

...
You mean, like a software company who tells Application Development companies that he will supply them with the source code for his operating system so they will be able to bundle them together... assuring them that he is not in the applications business, he is in the operating systems business... then, turns around and builds applications of his own based upon the programs given to him and builds around the COMPLETE operating system source, not the skeletal source he had previously provided, and bundles his own applications with his operating system and forces them out of business?
Yeah... dirty tactics work... and I guess they can be considered a success... by those whom approve of dirty tactics.

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...
You mean, like a software company who tells Application Development companies that he will supply them with the source code for his operating system so they will be able to bundle them together... assuring them that he is not in the applications business, he is in the operating systems business... then, turns around and builds applications of his own based upon the programs given to him and builds around the COMPLETE operating system source, not the skeletal source he had previously provided, and bundles his own applications with his operating system and forces them out of business?
Yeah... dirty tactics work... and I guess they can be considered a success... by those whom approve of dirty tactics.

Umm...I'm assuming the software company you're referring to is Microsoft. Which "Application Development" company are you referring to?

Purple Hawk

Cosmo wrote:

...
Still... for some reason... it makes me ill. I hate the thought of my beloved America reduced to this. We are the resurrection of decadent Rome.
...
Personally... I don't view her as a success. To me... monetary wealth means nothing, compared to the character of the spirit.
What you are telling me is that, in general terms, not you specifically... America values money over all others. That it DOES matter how much you have... what car you drive... who's shirt you wear.
To me... that is a sad commentary on America today.

Why does Paris Hilton or Bill Gates being rich make you so pissed? I mean, don't get me wrong, I can SEE why But why not be pissed about things you can control. I look at people like that, and think fuck that, I'm smarter than these idiots, I'm going to do something about it to use my talents.

I agree with a lot of your underlying beliefs about materialism, but people need incentives. Most people don't really want to do anything, so they value money. I don't think that's the case with most people here...probably everybody here. Obviously there are exceptions, but capitalism gives most of us the opportunity to follow our talents. Money is not really a priority to me...so I really don't worry about it being the focal point in other people's lives.

kenny olav

BetterRadio wrote:

The New York Times ain't so nice now.

Seriously, I hope this is an eye opener. Capitalism reigns. Rising tide lifts all boats.

It was already a plain fact that the New York Times is not a communist newspaper. Try not to fail in future quests to bring enlightenment.

Cosmo

farfromglorified wrote:

Umm...I'm assuming the software company you're referring to is Microsoft. Which "Application Development" company are you referring to?

...
The folks that developed WordPerfect (MS Word), QuattroPro (Access) and I forget who the spreadsheet was... possibly Lotus123.
Another "Character Trait" MicroSoft employed was raiding the developer's resources... hiring away the company's talent. This is now the norm... in the olden days, it used to be that the company would be bought out. But, it is simply cheaper to hire away the talent and leave all of the 'worthless' people, like secretaries, receptionist... you know, talentless nobodys... to die when the company went belly up.
In fact... these people are so worthless... we can get someone in India to do their bullshit job for pennies on the dollar. That is success in America. Because, seriously... who really gives a shit about those 'useless, talentless, worthless' people? Their kids? Who cares? As long as I can have a lot of money and drive a new Ferrarri in my new Armani suit... America will worship me as a success... someone they would like to be... just like me.

BetterRadio

Kenny Olav wrote:

Try not to fail in future quests to bring enlightenment.

Try not to be such a dick in life.

kenny olav

BetterRadio wrote:

Try not to be such a dick in life.

I don't have to try. It's very easy to be a dick when you want to be.

Cosmo

Purple Hawk wrote:

Why does Paris Hilton or Bill Gates being rich make you so pissed? I mean, don't get me wrong, I can SEE why But why not be pissed about things you can control. I look at people like that, and think fuck that, I'm smarter than these idiots, I'm going to do something about it to use my talents.

I agree with a lot of your underlying beliefs about materialism, but people need incentives. Most people don't really want to do anything, so they value money. I don't think that's the case with most people here...probably everybody here. Obviously there are exceptions, but capitalism gives most of us the opportunity to follow our talents. Money is not really a priority to me...so I really don't worry about it being the focal point in other people's lives.

...
Read back a little... the point was stated that in America... monetary wealth is the indication of success. I refuted that statement by saying that Paris Hilton was born into wealth and Anna Nicole-Smith married into money... does this make them American success Stories... that America should be proud of?
And I was responded to with a, "Yes"... they are successes in the eyes of America... and Americans.
I replied, that if that is true... that is a very sad commentary on America today.
...
I can give a rat's ass about Paris Hilton and probably will not shed a tear when she is found dead of a cocaine overdose in the penthouse of the Beverly Hilton.
Gates, on the other hand... well, there's a reason why he was sued by so many others early in his career... he did some pretty dirty deals... they weren't illegal... unscrupulous, maybe... but, found to be legal. His actions allowed the playing field to get just that much nastier than it already was. Yet, he is hailed as such a great success... mainly because of his money.
Sure, Melinda is spending Bill's money, now... it's just the way he attained it... the American way? Stomping all over the other guy? We're proud of that? Not me... I'm old school... I still want us to be the good guys.

kenny olav

jlew24asu wrote:

just so I understand correctly. Are there people here who would rather have communism as opposed to capitalism?

i prefer anarchism. and i also prefer real capitalism to state-supported capitalism.

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...
The folks that developed WordPerfect (MS Word), QuattroPro (Access) and I forget who the spreadsheet was... possibly Lotus123.

MS Word grew out of Multi-Tool Word for Xenix. Word predates WordPerfect. Excel grew out of Microsoft Multiplan. Lotus123 failed because they developed for IBM's OS/2 while the world was quickly adopting Windows. When Lotus attempted to reinvent 123 for the Windows platform, it failed miserably. Access is a relational database, whereas QuattroPro was a spreadsheet similar to Excel/Lotus123.

With the birth of Windows, application development drastically changed and allowed developers to do things they couldn't previously do on Intel platforms. To suggest that Microsoft's previous behavior with DOS would remain the same in a Windows world is ridiculous. Microsoft, as they had done before with the changes in the hardware environment, correctly predicted the direction and needs of the market and acted accordingly.

Another "Character Trait" MicroSoft employed was raiding the developer's resources... hiring away the company's talent. This is now the norm... in the olden days, it used to be that the company would be bought out. But, it is simply cheaper to hire away the talent and leave all of the 'worthless' people, like secretaries, receptionist... you know, talentless nobodys... to die when the company went belly up.
In fact... these people are so worthless... we can get someone in India to do their bullshit job for pennies on the dollar. That is success in America. Because, seriously... who really gives a shit about those 'useless, talentless, worthless' people? Their kids? Who cares? As long as I can have a lot of money and drive a new Ferrarri in my new Armani suit... America will worship me as a success... someone they would like to be... just like me.

First and foremost Microsoft has been an aggressive acquirer of other companies. The list would span pages. Secondly, Microsoft does target the best talent it can find. What's wrong with that? If Microsoft was kidnapping these people, then I'd agree with you. Google recently lured away some Microsoft execs. Should we be up in arms about that?

Purple Hawk

Cosmo wrote:

...
Read back a little... the point was stated that in America... monetary wealth is the indication of success. I refuted that statement by saying that Paris Hilton was born into wealth and Anna Nicole-Smith married into money... does this make them American success Stories... that America should be proud of?
And I was responded to with a, "Yes"... they are successes in the eyes of America... and Americans.
I replied, that if that is true... that is a very sad commentary on America today.
...
I can give a rat's ass about Paris Hilton and probably will not shed a tear when she is found dead of a cocaine overdose in the penthouse of the Beverly Hilton.
Gates, on the other hand... well, there's a reason why he was sued by so many others early in his career... he did some pretty dirty deals... they weren't illegal... unscrupulous, maybe... but, found to be legal. His actions allowed the playing field to get just that much nastier than it already was. Yet, he is hailed as such a great success... mainly because of his money.
Sure, Melinda is spending Bill's money, now... it's just the way he attained it... the American way? Stomping all over the other guy? We're proud of that? Not me... I'm old school... I still want us to be the good guys.

I read the correspondence....my point is...is that it's more of a comment on human nature, as opposed to American society.

Stomping all over the other guy is where we disagree. We aren't forced to do anything. We all make choices and sometimes the confrontation with a really tough decision is excused as being "forced" to do something. Anyways, I'm getting off track. Mindless idiots view Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole as "successes." (sorry ffg,,,I don't mean you, I get your point, I'm talking about the ET crowd) but do you really think Paris and Anna are happy??? I really don't care what people think about that crap, I just tune it out.

Abookamongstthemany

Invention and talent are a person's possession. But when they decide to share the knowledge and know how of their creation with the world to mass produce then they have to share the profits with those whom without there wouldn't be any profit. You are only as good as the amount of product you can produce with your own to hands. The workers are necessary to produce these goods, they have the power and should have a good share in the profits. If people would only realize this and stop being slaves who buckle under any pressure then they could pull all of the strings. People still think of themselves as being owned.

Purple Hawk

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Invention and talent are a person's possession. But when they decide to share the knowledge and know how of their creation with the world to mass produce then they have to share the profits with those whom without there wouldn't be any profit. You are only as good as the amount of product you can produce with your own to hands. The workers are necessary to produce these goods, they have the power and should have a good share in the profits. If people would only realize this and stop being slaves who buckle under any pressure then they could pull all of the strings. People still think of themselves as being owned.

What if people want to be owned? That sounds awful, but that's how I look at everyone in my family and everyone I grew up with. Going through life that way is the easy way, and I know that there is an inequity in opportunity for some, but generally speaking, I believe that path is a choice.

Cosmo

Purple Hawk wrote:

I read the correspondence....my point is...is that it's more of a comment on human nature, as opposed to American society.

Stomping all over the other guy is where we disagree. We aren't forced to do anything. We all make choices and sometimes the confrontation with a really tough decision is excused as being "forced" to do something. Anyways, I'm getting off track. Mindless idiots view Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole as "successes." (sorry ffg,,,I don't mean you, I get your point, I'm talking about the ET crowd) but do you really think Paris and Anna are happy??? I really don't care what people think about that crap, I just tune it out.

...
And so do I.
I just worry about America... I believe we DO place too much value on money... like money can some how make you a better person. That is how and why someone like Paris Hilton, who was born into wealth, is viewed as a success by educated people. I can see Conrad Hilton being viewed as a success... but, not his spoiled, punk-ass grand daughter.
A scumbag with a billion dollars is nothing more than a scumbag with a billion dollars, to me. I refuse to acknowledge him a success... let alone an American Success Story, based solely upon the number of zeros in his bank account.
And I don't believe in status symbols, such as cars or clothes or homes. Anyone who would judge my, or anyone else's character, based on the kind of car we drive... is someone I really don't care to meet.

Abookamongstthemany

Purple Hawk wrote:

What if people want to be owned? That sounds awful, but that's how I look at everyone in my family and everyone I grew up with. Going through life that way is the easy way, and I know that there is an inequity in opportunity for some, but generally speaking, I believe that path is a choice.

I know they have a choice, that's why I said 'act' like they are owned. People complain and hate their jobs but most seem cowardly to do anything about it. They are scared to take a chance. They should take a page from Emma Goldman.

Purple Hawk

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I know they have a choice, that's why I said 'act' like they are owned. People complain and hate their jobs but most seem cowardly to do anything about it. They are scared to take a chance. They should take a page from Emma Goldman.

Or Milton from Office Space

Abookamongstthemany

Purple Hawk wrote:

Or Milton from Office Space

Awesome movie!!

Purple Hawk

Cosmo wrote:

...
And so do I.
I just worry about America... I believe we DO place too much value on money... like money can some how make you a better person. That is how and why someone like Paris Hilton, who was born into wealth, is viewed as a success by educated people. I can see Conrad Hilton being viewed as a success... but, not his spoiled, punk-ass grand daughter.
A scumbag with a billion dollars is nothing more than a scumbag with a billion dollars, to me. I refuse to acknowledge him a success... let alone an American Success Story, based solely upon the number of zeros in his bank account.
And I don't believe in status symbols, such as cars or clothes or homes. Anyone who would judge my, or anyone else's character, based on the kind of car we drive... is someone I really don't care to meet.

I would guess there is a negative relationship between level of education and positive attitudes towards Paris Hilton. I think most people think she's a joke. A lot of people find her as entertainment, and as something to gossip about. I think you're overblowing her public appeal.

And like I said, I agree with you on many of the materialism issues...but from my experience, materialistic people are the most miserable. So why bother worrying about what they are doing? If someone were to really delve into their inner beings, they would be the ones envying people like us.

bootlegger10

ryan198 wrote:

Listen to PJ's version 5/31/06 Unemployable for the Eddie Vedder explanation.

That was a bullshit speech. 4.6% unemployment. Rockin' economy. I'm going to write a song called "Employable." I'll have to live half the year in Hawaii smoking doobies to find inspiration first. Things change. Out with the old, in with the new. It is the way it is.

jeffbr

bootlegger10 wrote:

That was a bullshit speech. 4.6% unemployment. Rockin' economy. I'm going to write a song called "Employable." I'll have to live half the year in Hawaii smoking doobies to find inspiration first. Things change. Out with the old, in with the new. It is the way it is.

No kidding. Ed is the last guy I'd listen to for political advice.

Low unemployment (not everyone is employable, and not everyone wants to work, so it's getting about as low as it will go), low inflation, gas/oil prices plummeting, the Dow approaching an all-time high.

At this point you'd have to make an effort to be unsuccessful.