Here's something for all you Commies.

jlew24asu

capitalism has made me a very happy man. I have a hard time feeling sorry someone who only holds their hand out instead of working hard. I started at the bottom, came from a lower middle class family and now am very well off with hard work and determination. I give to charity and try to do good things for people when I can.

ryan198

farfromglorified wrote:

No. It suggests that you can reduce present inequities.quote]
Through economics...quite a middle class, white, heterosexist, sexist, way to think huh? Oh wait...Ayn Rand was all of those things.

ryan198

jlew24asu wrote:

capitalism has made me a very happy man. I have a hard time feeling sorry someone who only holds their hand out instead of working hard. I started at the bottom, came from a lower middle class family and now am very well off with hard work and determination. I give to charity and try to do good things for people when I can.

It's nice that it has worked for you, but for a majority of people in this country it hasn't. Consider the fact that 26% of this country lives in poverty and that 75% of all families on welfare have at least one member of the family working a full-time job as an argument against hard work and determination necessarily leading to a better life.

farfromglorified

ryan198 wrote:

Through economics...quite a middle class, white, heterosexist, sexist, way to think huh? Oh wait...Ayn Rand was all of those things.

When in doubt, huh?

Rand believed in economic inequities, as do I. Those inequities had nothing to do with "heterosexism", "sexism", or classism. They have everything to do with justice.

farfromglorified

ryan198 wrote:

It's nice that it has worked for you, but for a majority of people in this country it hasn't.

Then perhaps they should stop living off its spoils.

ryan198

I would argue that economics has a lot to do with justice, but I guess we disagree on that.

farfromglorified

ryan198 wrote:

I would argue that economics has a lot to do with justice, but I guess we disagree on that.

No, we'd totally agree there. Pure economic capitalism is all about justice. And that applies both to the rich and the poor.

BetterRadio

Well, I guess while your high school economics class was teaching you how to write checks, my AP Macroeconomics is teaching me the facts. No bias, just facts.


Capitalism is better. You live in America. If can deny that this is the cleanest, most advanced country in the world, well, you've got lots to learn.

*I don't think that other countries aren't great. I loved Europe. I wouldn't want to live there permenently, due to the socialist tendencies (I just got a band name ) but it is nice.

Capitalism is evolution. Social Darwinism is in effect. People are so quick to attack the ''elite rich'' for what they have. Well, Guess what, most of them worked their asses off and took very dangerous risks for it. I'm sure in 3rd grade they didn't say ''Little Billy Gates what do you want to do when you grow up?" "Oh I want to be the richest man ever!!!!"

Dude went to Harvard. Dude made money. Whats wrong with him being successful? You socialists want to punish success, but on the other spectrum, would you be so quick to turn down money in favor for your ''beliefs'' and ''other people''? I sure would'nt. But thats just me, facing the truth of life. Human interest is always in play, and human interest is to get ahead. Not just humans, but every living thing. I dont believe a lion attacks a zebra just to fuck over the tigers. "Rarr goddamn tigers, rely on the leopards compassion to provide for you...raawor"

Well, my communist friend, I am a lion. And I love the taste of sweet zebra that I worked for.

ryan198

BetterRadio wrote:

Well, I guess while your high school economics class was teaching you how to write checks, my AP Macroeconomics is teaching me the facts. No bias, just facts.


Capitalism is better. You live in America. If can deny that this is the cleanest, most advanced country in the world, well, you've got lots to learn.

*I don't think that other countries aren't great. I loved Europe. I wouldn't want to live there permenently, due to the socialist tendencies (I just got a band name ) but it is nice.

Capitalism is evolution. Social Darwinism is in effect. People are so quick to attack the ''elite rich'' for what they have. Well, Guess what, most of them worked their asses off and took very dangerous risks for it. I'm sure in 3rd grade they didn't say ''Little Billy Gates what do you want to do when you grow up?" "Oh I want to be the richest man ever!!!!"

Dude went to Harvard. Dude made money. Whats wrong with him being successful? You socialists want to punish success, but on the other spectrum, would you be so quick to turn down money in favor for your ''beliefs'' and ''other people''? I sure would'nt. But thats just me, facing the truth of life. Human interest is always in play, and human interest is to get ahead. Not just humans, but every living thing. I dont believe a lion attacks a zebra just to fuck over the tigers. "Rarr goddamn tigers, rely on the leopards compassion to provide for you...raawor"

Well, my communist friend, I am a lion. And I love the taste of sweet zebra that I worked for.

Hahaha...ok I am not communist just because I oppose capitalism, and Bill Gates got into Harvard, stole some ideas from IBM, ran a monopoly, has pushed his way around the law, and somehow you consider him successful? Please...the dude lied, stole, and cheated his way to the top. He didn't work hard, that's just what corporate television owned by the really rich people in the US want you to believe...that way when 26% of the US lives in poverty it isn't there fault even though every significant ecomonic 'advancement' (which is what your HS Macroeconomics teacher told you) has resulted in economic gain, on the whole, for the really rich, and, as a result, has widened the gap between rich and poor. Subsequently, in a country that is run on capital, this gap has allowed the really rich to enjoy better education, food, health, access to better lawyers, jobs, etc. just by being born into it. Sure there are a few examples of hard work=success, but that's not always the case. Listen to PJ's version 5/31/06 Unemployable for the Eddie Vedder explanation.

farfromglorified

ryan198 wrote:

Bill Gates got into Harvard, stole some ideas from IBM, ran a monopoly, has pushed his way around the law, and somehow you consider him successful? Please...the dude lied, stole, and cheated his way to the top.

Bill Gates didn't steal anything from IBM. IBM was too foolish to realize that the future of computing was in software, not hardware and failed to correctly negotiate acquisition terms for DOS.

Bill Gates arguably "stole" ideas from Apple and Xerox, but he succeeded where they failed by realizing the value of what he was doing and correctly understanding the future market. Furthermore, it's incredibly ridiculous to suggest that Bill Gates "stole" those ideas in any different way than you've stolen 90% of your knowledge in life. Both were acquired by example, not by duplicity.

Gates' fortune comes from something you seem actively interested in denying or ignoring: the mind.

He didn't work hard, that's just what corporate television owned by the really rich people in the US want you to believe...that way when 26% of the US lives in poverty it isn't there fault even though every significant ecomonic 'advancement' (which is what your HS Macroeconomics teacher told you) has resulted in economic gain, on the whole, for the really rich, and, as a result, has widened the gap between rich and poor. Subsequently, in a country that is run on capital, this gap has allowed the really rich to enjoy better education, food, health, access to better lawyers, jobs, etc. just by being born into it. Sure there are a few examples of hard work=success, but that's not always the case. Listen to PJ's version 5/31/06 Unemployable for the Eddie Vedder explanation.

Poverty is not the guilt of the rich in absence of force. And since the poor receive more forced money from the rich than the rich receive from the poor, I'm wondering where the guilt you're claiming truly comes from.

ryan198

the poor DO NOT get more money from the rich than the poor...that is absolutely, positively false. If 5/6th of every tax dollar goes back into corporations, and those corporations are primarily owned by rich people then they receive more money than the poor. You try arguing this point all the time and it's a lie...stop doing it.

farfromglorified

ryan198 wrote:

the poor DO NOT get more money from the rich than the poor...that is absolutely, positively false.

You're right. The poor, however, do get more forced money from the rich than the rich get from the poor, which was my claim. Please read my post.

You try arguing this point all the time and it's a lie...stop doing it.

It's not a lie. The budget of the US government is public information, you may review it yourself.


I'm not telling you that there is not exploitation of the poor by the rich. There is. I'm telling you to stop pretending that there is not exploitation of the rich by the poor. And justice is not found in two crimes.

BetterRadio

ryan198 wrote:

ran a monopoly, has pushed his way around the law, and somehow you consider him successful?

How could you NOT consider him successful?!!?! Money in out society indicates success! By the way, there is no such thing as a monopoly. Within a free market, that thing you are refusing to accept, human nature, takes hold. There will eventually be a competitor. Mononpolies are bullshit. Yes, I have a huge respect for Bill Gates.

Please...the dude lied, stole, and cheated his way to the top.

Proof, please?

He didn't work hard, that's just what corporate television owned by the really rich people in the US want you to believe...

TV didn't tell me shit. You don't just show up and go "Today, I think I'll just be the richest man in the world. Seems like a good day to change history forever. OOOOooo I'll invent software and change lives for everyone. Thats as easy as cutting hair or bagging groceries."

...that way when 26% of the US lives in poverty it isn't there fault even though every significant ecomonic 'advancement'

Yes. It. Is. Evo. Lution. Survivial of the fittest. The lazy lions don't eat.

(which is what your HS Macroeconomics teacher told you)

Nobody ''told'' me anything. My teacher, you can view his website here, is brilliant. He taught me how to think, not what to think.

...has resulted in economic gain, on the whole, for the really rich, and, as a result, has widened the gap between rich and poor. Subsequently, in a country that is run on capital, this gap has allowed the really rich to enjoy better education, food, health, access to better lawyers, jobs, etc. just by being born into it.

Well, bro, I wasn't born into ''it''. I was in advanced classes from the beginning of my 12 years. I worked my ass off every year and continue to do so. I'm gonna have a great life, and the Florida lotto might pick up my tab at UF. If not UF, I'm gonna go to a U Cal school and get some scholarships. Its evolution.

Sure there are a few examples of hard work=success, but that's not always the case.

Yes it is. Nobody's laziness brought success.

Listen to PJ's version 5/31/06 Unemployable for the Eddie Vedder explanation.

I love Eddie as anyone else on this board, but Eddie is a musician. I am not an impressionable idiot who relies on someone else's explanation to form my own opinions.

Cosmo

BetterRadio wrote:

How could you NOT consider him successful?!!?! Money in our society indicates success!
...

...

So... are Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole-Smith people we can proudly hail as American Success stories?

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...

So... are Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole-Smith people we can proudly hail as American Success stories?

While I don't really agree with the point the original poster made (money no longer is a universal indicator of value), the two people you mentioned are American Success stories.

Cosmo

farfromglorified wrote:

While I don't really agree with the point the original poster made (money no longer is a universal indicator of value), the two people you mentioned are American Success stories.

...
Yeah, I suppose that getting born into wealth and marrying into wealth are considered achievements in America. We should also include Kevin Federline into the the American success Hall of Fame, while we're at it.

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yeah, I suppose that getting born into wealth and marrying into wealth are considered achievements in America.

Be honest. Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole Smith have both produced millions of dollars on their own by selling an image.

We should also include Kevin Federline into the the American success Hall of Fame, while we're at it.

Celebrity is a talent. It's not the talent of a great artist or engineer, but it's still a talent. Furthermore, there is much value found in those talents as evidenced by the people who spend millions of their dollars buying the "products" produced by these people.

I'm not saying it's a good thing or even a healthy thing, but it is a thing consistent with the wills of those involved.

BetterRadio

I think Paris Hilton is a cunt. But, stupid sells. The idiots eat that shit up. Materialism. I'm convinced she reads John Locke when shes at home and one day she's going to shock us all. Or die from alcohol poisoning. But, nevertheless, she is successful.

Cosmo

farfromglorified wrote:

Be honest. Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole Smith have both produced millions of dollars on their own by selling an image.

Celebrity is a talent. It's not the talent of a great artist or engineer, but it's still a talent. Furthermore, there is much value found in those talents as evidenced by the people who spend millions of their dollars buying the "products" produced by these people.

I'm not saying it's a good thing or even a healthy thing, but it is a thing consistent with the wills of those involved.

...
Still... for some reason... it makes me ill. I hate the thought of my beloved America reduced to this. We are the resurrection of decadent Rome.
...
Personally... I don't view her as a success. To me... monetary wealth means nothing, compared to the character of the spirit.
What you are telling me is that, in general terms, not you specifically... America values money over all others. That it DOES matter how much you have... what car you drive... who's shirt you wear.
To me... that is a sad commentary on America today.

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...
Still... for some reason... it makes me ill. I hate the thought of my beloved America reduced to this. We are the resurrection of decadent Rome.

Meh....every culture has its fair share of idols, some with more talent than others. I hear where you're coming from on that though!

I'm much more concerned about business owners who makes their money via laws that actively suppress their competition than I ever will be about a hotel heiress that sells an image of her lifestyle. The latter can be ignored. The former is armed.