More climate change denial from the US government
Scubascott
Posts: 815
Coming from a science background, I found this sickening. Inhofe has essentially found a couple of scientists to present some confusing and misleading data to back up his claims that the current climate change debate is nothing but an evil plot by the UN to sabotage the US economy.
I found this sentence particularly ironic coming from him-
"The United Nations annual climate conference this week exposed what I have known for a long time – that the real focus has little to do with the fate of the planet and much to do about money – who has it, and who wants it"
If anyone needs to see the arguments against this nonsense, feel free to ask.
http://epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=265956
I found this sentence particularly ironic coming from him-
"The United Nations annual climate conference this week exposed what I have known for a long time – that the real focus has little to do with the fate of the planet and much to do about money – who has it, and who wants it"
If anyone needs to see the arguments against this nonsense, feel free to ask.
http://epw.senate.gov/pressitem.cfm?party=rep&id=265956
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
-C Addison
-C Addison
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This is exactly how many of us view Kyoto. Not questioning the notion of global warming, but questioning it's cause, it's solution, the cost of Kyoto, the expected results of Kyoto, how much those expected results will actually do any good, and the loss of sovereignty involved (which is a more significant cost for me than any monetary cost).
I'm all for doing my part, and I try to. I'm almost always against signing up for anything the UN decides in conference or committee.
So don't confuse "climate change denial" as your title states, with opposition to UN schemes. They are two totally different things.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
In fact, someone should propose a special "environmental abuse" tax on corportations and people who invest in those corporations to get them to comply with global energy and pollution initiatives.
Now, I understand full well that here are some products which produce naturally hazerdous biproducts, or require particularly damaging processes in order to manufacture, but the only way to get away from such things is to force change through economic sanctions AND rewards.
Give companies tax breaks that are DIRECTLY TIED to their environmental initiatives...meaning don't just throw a tax break at a corporation...but allow a credit based on initiatives/improvements that can be independently verified.
Likewise, if a comapany is a particularly heavy contributor to negative environmental issues, they should be held financially accountable. It's the only way to get people to stand up and take action. You have to hit 'em in their bottom line...either positively or negatively.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I will believe my scientific background/knowledge over some fucking politician whining and crying over the "economics" of emission control.....there should be no price tag on the environment....
No we should blast countries for not making an attempt, Canada included. For me economics of this is a no brainer...just fucking do it...stop letting beaurcrats drag this through the mud....
The Kyoto Accord is the equivalent type approach that Americans take to health care. Good for the rich and fucks the poor over.
Not wanting to address the inequities of the Accord is just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality. Telling people to just do it when what they have to work with is broken makes no sense.
If you think it should just be done regardless of the economics then why don't you just buy out every oil producer in Alberta and shut down activity until it can be done in a more environmentally freindly manner. WHat's stopping you? Money? In your own words "For me economics of this is a no brainer...just fucking do it". Well, why haven't you done it?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I think they also claimed in there somewhere that the oceans are actually cooling. As a coral biologist with an interest in the effect that sea surface temperatures are having on coral reefs, I can tell you that that claim is absolute bullshit. Ocean surface temperatures have risen by about 1 degree celcius worldwide in the last decade or so. There no dispute about that point. Their claim that oceans are cooling is a flat out lie.
Now having said that, I should mention that guys like Al Gore, who may or may not have noble intentions, are also presenting the data in a somewhat misleading way. The climate is changing. There can be no denying that. That's why I was so dumbfounded to read that speach and see that some sections of the US government are still insisting on sticking to the old 'There's nothing to worry about folks' line. There is however, still some debate amongst the scientific community regarding the mechanisms of climate change. That's fine. Debating data and theories and mechanisms is what the scientific community does. That doesn't mean that the problem isn't real, and that we shouldn't do something about it.
-C Addison
My interest in this as an American is that this country that we live in is still one of the wildest places in the world to live. This heritage should not be lost. I support our National Parks system to the hilt, and oppose any development or industry that is known to hinder the natural proccess that is our natural world.
I do not think Humans are a distinct species from the natural world. I do think Nature rules all, and perhaps (maybe not in a lifetime), abuses of the natural world result in consequences to all life on earth.
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Just to clear one thing up. . .
Tsunamis are caused by undersea earthquakes. Earthquakes are caused by tectonic movements of sections of the earth's crust. They have no relationship whatsoever to the temperature in the atmosphere.
-C Addison
Who the hell cares? Who can prove global warming?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Temperature isn't the argument of Global Warming. The hypothosis of global warming lies in the effects of human emissions and toxic wastes that can cause cooling and warming and acid rain and polluted rivers and species extinction and flooding and droughts.
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Ok. Prove humans cause global warming.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
It is a combination of so many different variables, that to try that here would be impossible (plus, I don't think any of us has the background to credibly argue chemical reactions and their impact on the balance of nature). But I think we can all agree that the amount of chemical byproducts we are pumping out are definitely not working in our favor.
So you can't prove it. You can't prove the byproducts we are pumpining out are causing anything either. Trying it anywhere is impossible. No one can prove it. Some scientist try to sound like the smartest guy in the room, but no one can prove it.
What were the different variables that cause the Earth to forget hurricane season?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
DDT. Acid rain. Smog. A hole in the Ozone. etc, etc.
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lol Prove any of that causes global warming. Prove global warming is even a valid term for anything.
Ok, so it exist. Which year will be our last? Give me a definate period in time that we will all be wiped from the Earth. Or maybe just generally.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Guy, we are dispersing chemicals into the environment that are toxic. So toxic, in fact that if you came into direct contact with some of them, you would die. If you doubt me, turn on your car, close the garage, and roll down your windows. See if you can even type after 15 minutes.
I'm not one of those who forecasts cataclysmic causes. I am one concerned in the way Humans relate themselves to the world we live in. I think we're a bit glutted on the easy way in ignorance of the consequences on our natural environment.
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I could shoot myself in the face, guy, and not be able to type to you 15 minutes from now.
Oil has been seeping into the oceans for millions of years. How did we ever make it? Where were the hurricanes this year? Surely things haven't gotten any better in the last 8 months? So better than hurricane season was non-existent? Prove the chemicals dispersing from my vehicle is causing global warming. Or from anyones vehicle. I don't care to hear examples about things that can kill me. Tell me how these things are bringing about the end of the world.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Sure, if you think you can help, then live in the jungle. But don't tell me about things you think I'm doing that are bringing about the end of humanity when you can't prove them. Gore already missed his first deadline...
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
You live in a time that has given you a chance to make things better.
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Ok Confucius. Thanks for proving global warming.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Again, there is natural change (oil seeping). As far as the last 8 months, this has been an on-going issue since the Industrial Revolution when there was no EPA. These things add up over time and eventually lead to symptoms (Tsunamis, hurricanes, etc.) of a larger issue. The fact that the shit that comes out of your car, can in fact kill you, is reason enough. Multiple that toxic level across millions of cars across the globe, factories spewing out worse shit into the air, natural water dumping, nuclear waste--all for years upon years-- and when it all adds up, you have some seriously not fun shit going into nature, which already has a delicate balance. If you can't understand the negative impact of these things, well that just scares the shit out of me.
You don't deny that humans can have a negative effect on the environment, so do something about it.
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Alright, and what exactly caused the earthquake of 1906? The lasting effects of the Industrial Revolution?
The vapors emitted from volcanoes can kill me.
The Earth has existed for 4.5 billion years in a delicate state?
The scarey fact is that you're trying to prove this to me. Which you haven't.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Humans can't stop hurricanes so how do you suggest we start them?
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08