Price of Oil

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  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    do you live in America? if not have you been here? the vast majority of people who live here have little to NO choice but to drive to work.

    yes I live in america. and I have lived and worked lived in autocentric suburban areas, where in I rode a bike and walked when possible and when not, carpooled to work with 3 other people, one car of which was a prius- all choices, including living in an autocentric area (going to the best grad program in my field, which happens to be environmental economics, outweighed my desire to live in cities and my dislike of driving). I did not like having to drive so I *chose* to live somewhere I didn't have to later when that option was more prevalent among my preferences. It may be a *complex* choice, it may be a hugely complicated utility function, but it is still a rational, economic choice, bottom line.

    Also, may I remind people, that it is OUR CHOICES that have made the united states as autocentric as it is today. If we did not demand cars, if we did not demand huge houses, if we did not demand big box stores and shopping malls- suburban autocentric areas as we know them would not be as proliferating as they are today. That's not to say it can't change. We can all vote with our feet. We can seek out places to alternative live and work. we can demand bike paths and sidewalks. I'm not saying it could change overnight, but people are just like "eh, it's the way it is, you have to drive." When it's really not. If everyone just changed their OUTLOOK on how things are designed and stopped accepting the status quo, it would eventually change, as an economic necessity.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    mccain proposed to drop the fed tax of 0.20 cents a gallon for the summer. good or bad idea?

    It's a nice gesture but in the end it's just that. What we need is a solution not some flimsy band aid.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    GreenTeaDisease wrote:
    I'm all for it. really. in the past studies have shown that demand for gasoline is extremely price inelastic. but I hope that if it gets high enough, that will change.

    you make choices as to where you live, where you work, whether you drive a car, and what kind of car you drive. therefore, unless you are a truck driver, where the primary (singular really) input is gasoline, you shouldn't really be complaining.


    That is what has always bugged me. The people who seem to complain the most about gas prices are the people where their high levels of gas uses are a result of their own choices. These are the people who have to have the 4 bedroom house in the suburbs with the double garage and the huge back yard (even though to afford that house you have to have an hour commute). These are the people who drive SUV's when a small or medium sized car would suit them just fine.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    GreenTeaDisease wrote:
    yes I live in america. and I have lived and worked lived in autocentric suburban areas (where in I rode a bike and walked when possible and when not, carpooled to work with 3 other people, one car of which was a prius- all choices). I did not like having to drive so I *chose* to live somewhere I didn't have to. It may be a *complex* choice, it may be a hugely complicated utility function, but it is still a rational, economic choice, bottom line.

    you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars? and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    It's a nice gesture but in the end it's just that. What we need is a solution not some flimsy band aid.

    its a start. and certainly not a spineless gimmicky move. I guess he could have done nothing? :rolleyes:
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    GreenTeaDisease wrote:
    why WOULDN'T you want a gas tax?

    Because it's uneccessary, regressive and immoral.
    someone sure as hell should be paying for the f-ed up externalities they're causing when they choose to drive.

    Umm...so let me get this straight. Driving creates "f-ed up externalities" and therefore drivers should be punished by paying a tribute to the organizations that provided them with public roads to begin with????
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars? and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.

    No but you can start by making some wiser choices. If you have to drive far to get to work don't buy a Hummer. There are also plenty of people who can commute to work via public transportation who still drive because the train or the bus is too crowded. Having worked in NYC for the majority of my career I have met dozens of people who drive to work when they can just as easily take a train or bus. Then they would bitch about the tolls, traffic and gas prices.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    its a start. and certainly not a spineless gimmicky move. I guess he could have done nothing? :rolleyes:

    No he could fight to eliminate the gas tax completely.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    No but you can start by making some wiser choices. If you have to drive far to get to work don't buy a Hummer. There are also plenty of people who can commute to work via public transportation who still drive because the train or the bus is too crowded. Having worked in NYC for the majority of my career I have met dozens of people who drive to work when they can just as easily take a train or bus. Then they would bitch about the tolls, traffic and gas prices.

    I have no sympathy for those people. I'm talking about the millions of americans who simply have little or no choice.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    No he could fight to eliminate the gas tax completely.
    sure he can, but like I said, this is a good start. I'll take a temp cut proposal over no proposal at all. which is what I got from the 99 other senators.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    this is what happens when you spend all your infrastructure dollars on big wide interstates and nothing on mass transit ...

    saying one "HAS TO DRIVE" is a problem in it of itself ... fix that and you won't worry about gas prices ...
  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    That is what has always bugged me. The people who seem to complain the most about gas prices are the people where their high levels of gas uses are a result of their own choices. These are the people who have to have the 4 bedroom house in the suburbs with the double garage and the huge back yard (even though to afford that house you have to have an hour commute). These are the people who drive SUV's when a small or medium sized car would suit them just fine.

    I like you :).
  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    polaris wrote:
    this is what happens when you spend all your infrastructure dollars on big wide interstates and nothing on mass transit ...

    saying one "HAS TO DRIVE" is a problem in it of itself ... fix that and you won't worry about gas prices ...

    I like you too :).
  • Stone Is God
    Stone Is God Posts: 1,331
    All this talk about ditching my Jeep and buying a Hybrid has inspired me to add another $350.00 loan payment onto my already large pile of bills. It has also inspired me to thank my ex-girlfriend for moving 60 miles away with my son so the only way I can see him is to drive.

    The point is I would like to go out and buy a new car but I can afford it at this time. Not everyone that is crabbing about gas prices drives an SUV and lives in a 4 bedroom house, 3 hours away from work.

    I think my father was crabbing about it the other day and he has his house paid off, has a 7 mile commute to work and drives a 4 cylinder car. But I guess he's wrong to piss and moan but cause his home heating bill has only doubled in the last 18 months.

    Bring on Global Warming, at least I won't have to give up my first born to heat my 3 room apartment.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    sure he can, but like I said, this is a good start. I'll take a temp cut proposal over no proposal at all. which is what I got from the 99 other senators.

    See, here's the thing: it's not a start at fixing the problem. It's simply an attempt to get votes. Telling people you'll remove a tax for a summer, the summer before you happen to be running for president, is so transparently ridiculous, that in a sane country he'd be laughed all the way back to kindergarten.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    sure he can, but like I said, this is a good start. I'll take a temp cut proposal over no proposal at all. which is what I got from the 99 other senators.

    you seem to think that cheap gas is a right? ... how about clean air?
  • GreenTeaDisease
    GreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars?

    we wouldn't have to "cram" if there were less suburbs and more "urban" areas. we have the urban designs we have today because everyone wants a McMansion on two acres of land with a walmart and TGIFridays nearby to which they can drive their two hummers.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.

    yes...I'm not saying people should aim toward no one ever driving...but it's WAY too huge a part of the american lifestyle. we have to change that. people jump in their cars to drive to a friend's house or a convenience store half a mile away; kids have to be driven to school a mile away because there's only one large road designed for cars that comes out of the subdivisions they're parents choose to live in- because that's just the lifestyle we have. it's ridiculous.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    farfromglorified wrote:
    See, here's the thing: it's not a start at fixing the problem. It's simply an attempt to get votes. Telling people you'll remove a tax for a summer, the summer before you happen to be running for president, is so transparently ridiculous, that in a sane country he'd be laughed all the way back to kindergarten.

    so you would rather pay the tax in spite? not me, I'll take it.
  • brandon10
    brandon10 Posts: 1,114
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars? and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.

    I would safely say that you are the one that doesn't get it. Go back and re-read his post. You may need to do this several times.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    polaris wrote:
    you seem to think that cheap gas is a right? ... how about clean air?
    lol are you nuts? no I don't think cheap gas is a right.

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