That is what has always bugged me. The people who seem to complain the most about gas prices are the people where their high levels of gas uses are a result of their own choices. These are the people who have to have the 4 bedroom house in the suburbs with the double garage and the huge back yard (even though to afford that house you have to have an hour commute). These are the people who drive SUV's when a small or medium sized car would suit them just fine.
All this talk about ditching my Jeep and buying a Hybrid has inspired me to add another $350.00 loan payment onto my already large pile of bills. It has also inspired me to thank my ex-girlfriend for moving 60 miles away with my son so the only way I can see him is to drive.
The point is I would like to go out and buy a new car but I can afford it at this time. Not everyone that is crabbing about gas prices drives an SUV and lives in a 4 bedroom house, 3 hours away from work.
I think my father was crabbing about it the other day and he has his house paid off, has a 7 mile commute to work and drives a 4 cylinder car. But I guess he's wrong to piss and moan but cause his home heating bill has only doubled in the last 18 months.
Bring on Global Warming, at least I won't have to give up my first born to heat my 3 room apartment.
sure he can, but like I said, this is a good start. I'll take a temp cut proposal over no proposal at all. which is what I got from the 99 other senators.
See, here's the thing: it's not a start at fixing the problem. It's simply an attempt to get votes. Telling people you'll remove a tax for a summer, the summer before you happen to be running for president, is so transparently ridiculous, that in a sane country he'd be laughed all the way back to kindergarten.
sure he can, but like I said, this is a good start. I'll take a temp cut proposal over no proposal at all. which is what I got from the 99 other senators.
you seem to think that cheap gas is a right? ... how about clean air?
you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars?
we wouldn't have to "cram" if there were less suburbs and more "urban" areas. we have the urban designs we have today because everyone wants a McMansion on two acres of land with a walmart and TGIFridays nearby to which they can drive their two hummers.
and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.
yes...I'm not saying people should aim toward no one ever driving...but it's WAY too huge a part of the american lifestyle. we have to change that. people jump in their cars to drive to a friend's house or a convenience store half a mile away; kids have to be driven to school a mile away because there's only one large road designed for cars that comes out of the subdivisions they're parents choose to live in- because that's just the lifestyle we have. it's ridiculous.
See, here's the thing: it's not a start at fixing the problem. It's simply an attempt to get votes. Telling people you'll remove a tax for a summer, the summer before you happen to be running for president, is so transparently ridiculous, that in a sane country he'd be laughed all the way back to kindergarten.
so you would rather pay the tax in spite? not me, I'll take it.
you don't get it. are all americans supposed to cram into urban areas so they can ditch their cars? and guess what, carpooling still requires people to buy and use gas.
I would safely say that you are the one that doesn't get it. Go back and re-read his post. You may need to do this several times.
All this talk about ditching my Jeep and buying a Hybrid has inspired me to add another $350.00 loan payment onto my already large pile of bills. It has also inspired me to thank my ex-girlfriend for moving 60 miles away with my son so the only way I can see him is to drive.
The point is I would like to go out and buy a new car but I can afford it at this time. Not everyone that is crabbing about gas prices drives an SUV and lives in a 4 bedroom house, 3 hours away from work.
I think my father was crabbing about it the other day and he has his house paid off, has a 7 mile commute to work and drives a 4 cylinder car. But I guess he's wrong to piss and moan but cause his home heating bill has only doubled in the last 18 months.
Bring on Global Warming, at least I won't have to give up my first born to heat my 3 room apartment.
thank you for you adding to this discussion. apparently people don't get that this is type of situation is not unusual.
we wouldn't have to "cram" if there were less suburbs and more "urban" areas. we have the urban designs we have today because everyone wants a McMansion on two acres of land with a walmart and TGIFridays nearby to which they can drive their two hummers.
yes...I'm not saying people should aim toward no one ever driving...but it's WAY too huge a part of the american lifestyle. we have to change that. people jump in their cars to drive to a friend's house or a convenience store half a mile away; kids have to be driven to school a mile away because there's only one large road designed for cars that comes out of the subdivisions they're parents choose to live in- because that's just the lifestyle we have. it's ridiculous.
we wouldn't have to "cram" if there were less suburbs and more "urban" areas. we have the urban designs we have today because everyone wants a McMansion on two acres of land with a walmart and TGIFridays nearby to which they can drive their two hummers.
That's what bugs me the most. It is true not everyone who complains lives like that but a lot of people do. It frustrates me because the city I live in has a population of about 800,000, yet to drive from one end of the city limits to the other would take over an hour (on the highway with no traffic) all because people keep moving further and further out into the country becuse they want their suburban dream home. The fact that so many people see that as their dream lifestyle has to have huge effects on gas consumption.
so you would rather pay the tax in spite? not me, I'll take it.
I'd rather have someone proposing real solutions in terms of energy and transportation, particularly someone who actually understands that economics is not a political game. Certainly I'd like a tax-free summer. Shit, I'd like to be able to get free gas down at the welfare department. That doesn't mean that those things are good ideas, however.
wow man. you need to move. is that out of the question? dont mean to pry, its none of my business but damn. 110 miles A DAY!
Yeah, a move is pretty much out of the question. Got a great deal on a great starter house that someday will make me a lot of money.
Brian's Deep Thought of the Day:
As I'm pumping $40 into my car (and doesn't even fill it up), here is what crosses my mind; if John Kerry were to be President and the price of a think of ketchup went up six fold, people would be crying non-stop about it's because of his wifes invested interest. So when a Bush becomes President and the price of oil goes up 600% from when he took office...nothing? I would gladly go without ketchup, but I have to use gas.
Spineless, gimmicky idea. Drop it for good, remove corresponding spending from the budget (preferrably oil company subsidies).
I'd agree drop the subsidies completely, but use that money for our countries infrastucture, it's aging, and the longer we wait to fix it, the more expensive it'll be. I see more bridge collapses in the future, more blackouts due to poor power infrastructure, etc...
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
I'd rather have someone proposing real solutions in terms of energy and transportation, particularly someone who actually understands that economics is not a political game. Certainly I'd like a tax-free summer. Shit, I'd like to be able to get free gas down at the welfare department. That doesn't mean that those things are good ideas, however.
That is what I have always thought was stupid about proposing tax cuts as a way to lower gas prices. Here they have suggested cutting the GST on gas. But I get the feeling that if the government cuts their take, the gas companies aren't going to pass that savings onto the consumer, they are just going to take more for themselves. For example if there is a 5-cent/litre cut it doesn't mean that someone filling up is going to see a decrease in their prices. It just means more profit for the gas companies since they know people are already ok with paying those high prices, so it is basically a 5 cent per litre revenue increase for them.
They cut the GST last year by 1%, yet alot of things that had fixed prices where the tax was included in the price, such as parking, movie tickets, cab rides, newspapers, vending machines didn't change at all, because the people selling those things knew that was the price people were ok paying. I get the feeling cutting sales taxes in gas prices will lead to the exact same thing.
All this talk about ditching my Jeep and buying a Hybrid has inspired me to add another $350.00 loan payment onto my already large pile of bills. It has also inspired me to thank my ex-girlfriend for moving 60 miles away with my son so the only way I can see him is to drive.
The point is I would like to go out and buy a new car but I can afford it at this time. Not everyone that is crabbing about gas prices drives an SUV and lives in a 4 bedroom house, 3 hours away from work.
I think my father was crabbing about it the other day and he has his house paid off, has a 7 mile commute to work and drives a 4 cylinder car. But I guess he's wrong to piss and moan but cause his home heating bill has only doubled in the last 18 months.
Bring on Global Warming, at least I won't have to give up my first born to heat my 3 room apartment.
first of all the price of natural gas (the majority home heating in massachusetts) does not always move in the same direction or at the same magnitude as oil.
secondly, it's not thought of as "global warming" anymore. it's climate change, meaning it could get colder where you live, thereby requiring more heat you have to pay for. It could increase the costs of food, increase the costs of everything really. I wouldn't exactly be hoping for climate change from an economic point of view.
and everything you said about why you drive is a choice. it may be a difficult choice. it may be an extremely complex utility curve, but it's still a choice in the end. it just is. and not everyone has the same options and budget- that's totally reasonable. the point being that there can still be other choices made. I chose to live near where I work so I can walk, bike, or take the T, whatever- IT COSTS ME A LOT. Sure I could have much better "stuff" if I lived elsewhere, but I choose to live in the city. I'm giving up things to live in the city- people who don't live in the city have to give up things too (more money for gas). It's just economics. within any given budget constraint there are trade offs. when you decide where to live you say "I can live in a house for cheaper but will have to pay a lot for gas." that's a choice. and really gasoline is way cheaper than it should be. it's scarce, bad for the environment, and causes conflict and corruption all over the world, and no one's paying for these costs.
deep, deep down it's a choice. it might be an ABSOLUTE CRAPPY ONE *I get that* and I'm not saying you're a bad person for using a car, but it all comes down to making a decision all the time. There are places people go that they jump in their car for that they totally don't have to that's a choice.
so people pay less at the pumps. what are you getting at? out with it already. something to do with the illegal occupation or something?
ha! ...
my point is that you are making it out to seem like cheap gas is an imperative without factoring in the consequences of what is already cheap gas ... i don't think there are too many countries in the world where gas is cheaper then in the US ... water is more expensive then gas in north america ...
why further subsidize a resource that needs to be curtailed? ...
That is what I have always thought was stupid about proposing tax cuts as a way to lower gas prices. Here they have suggested cutting the GST on gas. But I get the feeling that if the government cuts their take, the gas companies aren't going to pass that savings onto the consumer, they are just going to take more for themselves. For example if there is a 5-cent/litre cut it doesn't mean that someone filling up is going to see a decrease in their prices. It just means more profit for the gas companies since they know people are already ok with paying those high prices, so it is basically a 5 cent per litre revenue increase for them.
Absolutely! But, in this case, that's going to end up being a very good thing. The last thing we need, really, is cheaper gas. But to tie government revenues to gas consumption is very, very stupid. We need to get government out of both sides of the gas shilling business.
Absolutely! But, in this case, that's going to end up being a very good thing. The last thing we need, really, is cheaper gas. But to tie government revenues to gas consumption is very, very stupid. We need to get government out of both sides of the gas shilling business.
I don't know I think if someone is going to be getting their hands on the money I would rather it be the government who spends it on something worthwhile to me (well at least my government does(Canada makes a shitload through the oil industry)) rather than whatever an oil company might spend it on.
Yeah, a move is pretty much out of the question. Got a great deal on a great starter house that someday will make me a lot of money.
THIS IS A CHOICE. sorry, where is this not a choice??? am I missing something? you CHOOSE to get this "great deal on a starter house" knowing that you would have to drive an absurd distance to get to work. How then, can you POSSIBLY complain when, INEVITABLY, gasoline prices rise to closer to where they SHOULD be. I mean this is what I DO NOT understand. People want cheap houses way out there, but they don't want to pay for the driving they have to do to get to them (neither the personal nor social cost). You are CHOOSING to use gasoline.
As I'm pumping $40 into my car (and doesn't even fill it up), here is what crosses my mind; if John Kerry were to be President and the price of a think of ketchup went up six fold, people would be crying non-stop about it's because of his wifes invested interest. So when a Bush becomes President and the price of oil goes up 600% from when he took office...nothing? I would gladly go without ketchup, but I have to use gas.
as stated above, you *HAVE* to use neither gas nor ketchup. In fact, here's an idea: if you decrease your use of ketchup in response to Kerry's price hike, as a rational economic actor would, then kerry has no incentive to continue with the price hike.
I am certainly no bush supporter but 1) gas prices are not solely determined by him and 2) high gas prices are good. bottom line. gets people to drive less, helps the environment, helps public health, helps community development.
THIS IS A CHOICE. sorry, where is this not a choice??? am I missing something? you CHOOSE to get this "great deal on a starter house" knowing that you would have to drive an absurd distance to get to work. How then, can you POSSIBLY complain when, INEVITABLY, gasoline prices rise to closer to where they SHOULD be. I mean this is what I DO NOT understand. People want cheap houses way out there, but they don't want to pay for the driving they have to do to get to them. You are CHOOSING to use gasoline.
as stated above, you *HAVE* to use neither gas nor ketchup.
I am certainly no bush supporter but 1) gas prices are not solely determined by him and 2) high gas prices are good. bottom line. gets people to drive less, helps the environment, helps public health, helps community development.
first of all the price of natural gas (the majority home heating in massachusetts) does not always move in the same direction or at the same magnitude as oil.
secondly, it's not thought of as "global warming" anymore. it's climate change, meaning it could get colder where you live, thereby requiring more heat you have to pay for. It could increase the costs of food, increase the costs of everything really. I wouldn't exactly be hoping for climate change from an economic point of view.
and everything you said about why you drive is a choice. it may be a difficult choice. it may be an extremely complex utility curve, but it's still a choice in the end. it just is. and not everyone has the same options and budget- that's totally reasonable. the point being that there can still be other choices made. I chose to live near where I work so I can walk, bike, or take the T, whatever- IT COSTS ME A LOT. Sure I could have much better "stuff" if I lived elsewhere, but I choose to live in the city. I'm giving up things to live in the city- people who don't live in the city have to give up things too (more money for gas). It's just economics. within any given budget constraint there are trade offs. when you decide where to live you say "I can live in a house for cheaper but will have to pay a lot for gas." that's a choice. and really gasoline is way cheaper than it should be. it's scarce, bad for the environment, and causes conflict and corruption all over the world, and no one's paying for these costs.
deep, deep down it's a choice. it might be an ABSOLUTE CRAPPY ONE *I get that* and I'm not saying you're a bad person for using a car, but it all comes down to making a decision all the time. There are places people go that they jump in their car for that they totally don't have to that's a choice.
I guess it's just time to take a big bite of the old shit burger. LOL
I've basically cut out any driving I don't have to do. I sit in my apartment and play my guitars and my X Box 360.
But then again, isn't life full of crappy choices.
Comments
saying one "HAS TO DRIVE" is a problem in it of itself ... fix that and you won't worry about gas prices ...
I like you
I like you too
The point is I would like to go out and buy a new car but I can afford it at this time. Not everyone that is crabbing about gas prices drives an SUV and lives in a 4 bedroom house, 3 hours away from work.
I think my father was crabbing about it the other day and he has his house paid off, has a 7 mile commute to work and drives a 4 cylinder car. But I guess he's wrong to piss and moan but cause his home heating bill has only doubled in the last 18 months.
Bring on Global Warming, at least I won't have to give up my first born to heat my 3 room apartment.
See, here's the thing: it's not a start at fixing the problem. It's simply an attempt to get votes. Telling people you'll remove a tax for a summer, the summer before you happen to be running for president, is so transparently ridiculous, that in a sane country he'd be laughed all the way back to kindergarten.
you seem to think that cheap gas is a right? ... how about clean air?
we wouldn't have to "cram" if there were less suburbs and more "urban" areas. we have the urban designs we have today because everyone wants a McMansion on two acres of land with a walmart and TGIFridays nearby to which they can drive their two hummers.
yes...I'm not saying people should aim toward no one ever driving...but it's WAY too huge a part of the american lifestyle. we have to change that. people jump in their cars to drive to a friend's house or a convenience store half a mile away; kids have to be driven to school a mile away because there's only one large road designed for cars that comes out of the subdivisions they're parents choose to live in- because that's just the lifestyle we have. it's ridiculous.
so you would rather pay the tax in spite? not me, I'll take it.
I would safely say that you are the one that doesn't get it. Go back and re-read his post. You may need to do this several times.
then why do you think a cut of the tax is a good thing?
thank you for you adding to this discussion. apparently people don't get that this is type of situation is not unusual.
McMansion!!!!!!!!!!!
so people pay less at the pumps. what are you getting at? out with it already. something to do with the illegal occupation or something?
That's what bugs me the most. It is true not everyone who complains lives like that but a lot of people do. It frustrates me because the city I live in has a population of about 800,000, yet to drive from one end of the city limits to the other would take over an hour (on the highway with no traffic) all because people keep moving further and further out into the country becuse they want their suburban dream home. The fact that so many people see that as their dream lifestyle has to have huge effects on gas consumption.
Hey there lazy
I'd rather have someone proposing real solutions in terms of energy and transportation, particularly someone who actually understands that economics is not a political game. Certainly I'd like a tax-free summer. Shit, I'd like to be able to get free gas down at the welfare department. That doesn't mean that those things are good ideas, however.
Yeah, a move is pretty much out of the question. Got a great deal on a great starter house that someday will make me a lot of money.
Brian's Deep Thought of the Day:
As I'm pumping $40 into my car (and doesn't even fill it up), here is what crosses my mind; if John Kerry were to be President and the price of a think of ketchup went up six fold, people would be crying non-stop about it's because of his wifes invested interest. So when a Bush becomes President and the price of oil goes up 600% from when he took office...nothing? I would gladly go without ketchup, but I have to use gas.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
I'd agree drop the subsidies completely, but use that money for our countries infrastucture, it's aging, and the longer we wait to fix it, the more expensive it'll be. I see more bridge collapses in the future, more blackouts due to poor power infrastructure, etc...
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
No problem. Believe me if I had the dough I go buy a Prius in a second, it's just not feasible at this point. I'm all for alternative sources of fuel.
I think what escapes most people is one of the facts why we're paying out our ass for fuel is because our dollar is in the tank.
My Global Warming comment may have been a little over the top also.
That is what I have always thought was stupid about proposing tax cuts as a way to lower gas prices. Here they have suggested cutting the GST on gas. But I get the feeling that if the government cuts their take, the gas companies aren't going to pass that savings onto the consumer, they are just going to take more for themselves. For example if there is a 5-cent/litre cut it doesn't mean that someone filling up is going to see a decrease in their prices. It just means more profit for the gas companies since they know people are already ok with paying those high prices, so it is basically a 5 cent per litre revenue increase for them.
They cut the GST last year by 1%, yet alot of things that had fixed prices where the tax was included in the price, such as parking, movie tickets, cab rides, newspapers, vending machines didn't change at all, because the people selling those things knew that was the price people were ok paying. I get the feeling cutting sales taxes in gas prices will lead to the exact same thing.
first of all the price of natural gas (the majority home heating in massachusetts) does not always move in the same direction or at the same magnitude as oil.
secondly, it's not thought of as "global warming" anymore. it's climate change, meaning it could get colder where you live, thereby requiring more heat you have to pay for. It could increase the costs of food, increase the costs of everything really. I wouldn't exactly be hoping for climate change from an economic point of view.
and everything you said about why you drive is a choice. it may be a difficult choice. it may be an extremely complex utility curve, but it's still a choice in the end. it just is. and not everyone has the same options and budget- that's totally reasonable. the point being that there can still be other choices made. I chose to live near where I work so I can walk, bike, or take the T, whatever- IT COSTS ME A LOT. Sure I could have much better "stuff" if I lived elsewhere, but I choose to live in the city. I'm giving up things to live in the city- people who don't live in the city have to give up things too (more money for gas). It's just economics. within any given budget constraint there are trade offs. when you decide where to live you say "I can live in a house for cheaper but will have to pay a lot for gas." that's a choice. and really gasoline is way cheaper than it should be. it's scarce, bad for the environment, and causes conflict and corruption all over the world, and no one's paying for these costs.
deep, deep down it's a choice. it might be an ABSOLUTE CRAPPY ONE *I get that* and I'm not saying you're a bad person for using a car, but it all comes down to making a decision all the time. There are places people go that they jump in their car for that they totally don't have to that's a choice.
ha! ...
my point is that you are making it out to seem like cheap gas is an imperative without factoring in the consequences of what is already cheap gas ... i don't think there are too many countries in the world where gas is cheaper then in the US ... water is more expensive then gas in north america ...
why further subsidize a resource that needs to be curtailed? ...
Absolutely! But, in this case, that's going to end up being a very good thing. The last thing we need, really, is cheaper gas. But to tie government revenues to gas consumption is very, very stupid. We need to get government out of both sides of the gas shilling business.
I don't know I think if someone is going to be getting their hands on the money I would rather it be the government who spends it on something worthwhile to me (well at least my government does(Canada makes a shitload through the oil industry)) rather than whatever an oil company might spend it on.
why????
products that include a social costs should be taxed so the government can do something to curtail that cost. remedial taxes are efficient.
THIS IS A CHOICE. sorry, where is this not a choice??? am I missing something? you CHOOSE to get this "great deal on a starter house" knowing that you would have to drive an absurd distance to get to work. How then, can you POSSIBLY complain when, INEVITABLY, gasoline prices rise to closer to where they SHOULD be. I mean this is what I DO NOT understand. People want cheap houses way out there, but they don't want to pay for the driving they have to do to get to them (neither the personal nor social cost). You are CHOOSING to use gasoline.
as stated above, you *HAVE* to use neither gas nor ketchup. In fact, here's an idea: if you decrease your use of ketchup in response to Kerry's price hike, as a rational economic actor would, then kerry has no incentive to continue with the price hike.
I am certainly no bush supporter but 1) gas prices are not solely determined by him and 2) high gas prices are good. bottom line. gets people to drive less, helps the environment, helps public health, helps community development.
I agree with you here greeny
I guess it's just time to take a big bite of the old shit burger. LOL
I've basically cut out any driving I don't have to do. I sit in my apartment and play my guitars and my X Box 360.
But then again, isn't life full of crappy choices.