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The Clintongate Administration

jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
I'm not sure why everyone holds this guy on such a high pedestal. Is everyone mesmerized by his speaking ability? Trust me, I dislike Bush as much as Clinton. Iraq has been one of the biggest fuckups of all time. But why is Clinton such an angel? In Bush's mind, while everyone here will disagree, he really believes he is protecting America to the best of his ability. Clinton is far more corrupt and 2 faced then Bush. I believe Bush's problem is he has too many hard heads in his inner circle. Clinton did it all on his own.



http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/clinton-scandals.html

http://prorev.com/wwindex.htm

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Clinton_Scandals/index.html
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Comments

  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545
    Clinton was no angel, but there are two reasons that come to mind:

    1: He was a better leader than GW - while he certainly had advisors and people around him to help make decisions, he didn't lean on them as painfully as GW leans on the likes of Rummy, Dick and Condi (and even shaddier characters - ROVE!!!)... Clinton inspired more confidence because he had (has) a mind for politics (and lets not forget that it is politics)... and unintentionally I think a lot of people identified with him because he was so obviously and painfully HUMAN. That's something that people latch on to, especially when it is seen in such a charismatic person occupying the highest post in the country.


    2: Whether he was better or not, and whether he had anything to do with it or not (which is another conversation) - people are very sentimental for how much better things were in the 90s than they are now. And they were better... and since he is a poster boy for the 90s, he is looked back upon with a fond eye...

    Me? I like him because I agree with him on most everything politically and like the fact that the guy is human like the rest of us...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    NakedClown wrote:

    2: Whether he was better or not, and whether he had anything to do with it or not (which is another conversation) - people are very sentimental for how much better things were in the 90s than they are now. And they were better... and since he is a poster boy for the 90s, he is looked back upon with a fond eye...


    I would argue this place wouldn't much different from the 90s had we NOT been attacked at the beginning of the 00's. Bush's fiscal policies seem to keep our economy doing great. its the forgein policy that has fucked us up. people will argue with the tax cuts but you cant deny our economy has remained strong with Bush. I have an Economics degree and no matter what party line you stand on, Tax cuts do more good then harm. but anyway, thanks for posting. good points
  • WMAWMA Posts: 175
    There were a ton of conspiracy theories about Clinton, and most of them were checked out in depth by Congress actually doing oversight. That is how the whole Monica thing came about, spending millions and millions of dollars to try to find something or anything on him.

    I'm sure there will be a ton of oversight coming up if the projections of the Dems taking over the House is correct. I'll be very very surprised if nothing comes out of it... but if not, I'll accept that I was wrong.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    NakedClown wrote:
    Clinton was no angel, but there are two reasons that come to mind:

    1: He was a better leader than GW - while he certainly had advisors and people around him to help make decisions, he didn't lean on them as painfully as GW leans on the likes of Rummy, Dick and Condi (and even shaddier characters - ROVE!!!)... Clinton inspired more confidence because he had (has) a mind for politics (and lets not forget that it is politics)... and unintentionally I think a lot of people identified with him because he was so obviously and painfully HUMAN. That's something that people latch on to, especially when it is seen in such a charismatic person occupying the highest post in the country.


    2: Whether he was better or not, and whether he had anything to do with it or not (which is another conversation) - people are very sentimental for how much better things were in the 90s than they are now. And they were better... and since he is a poster boy for the 90s, he is looked back upon with a fond eye...

    Me? I like him because I agree with him on most everything politically and like the fact that the guy is human like the rest of us...

    You make a couple of excellent observations. Like his politics or not, people did respect his intellect and his youthful exuberance. I personally thought he was sleazy (but I think anyone who acheives that office these days has to be). I also don't look back fondly on his administration with people like Louis Freeh fucking up the intelligence community, and Fieldmarshall Reno waging war on American citizens (ex. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzalez). Something about her (and ultimately Clinton) sending in jackbooted stormtroopers to shoot and kill our own citizens in our own country rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.

    So I was glad to see Clinton/Gore disappear much the same way I'm looking forward to 01/09 when W. rides off into the sunset.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I would argue this place wouldn't much different from the 90s had we NOT been attacked at the beginning of the 00's. Bush's fiscal policies seem to keep our economy doing great. its the forgein policy that has fucked us up. people will argue with the tax cuts but you cant deny our economy has remained strong with Bush. I have an Economics degree and no matter what party line you stand on, Tax cuts do more good then harm. but anyway, thanks for posting. good points

    I was thinking "the whole picture" - and you're right on the economics...
  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545
    WMA wrote:
    There were a ton of conspiracy theories about Clinton, and most of them were checked out in depth by Congress actually doing oversight. That is how the whole Monica thing came about, spending millions and millions of dollars to try to find something or anything on him.

    I'm sure there will be a ton of oversight coming up if the projections of the Dems taking over the House is correct. I'll be very very surprised if nothing comes out of it... but if not, I'll accept that I was wrong.

    I often wonder what positive things could have been done in this country with the time and resources poured into a massive investigation that gave us the following truth:

    Bill Clinton received a blow job from an intern and lied about it under oath.

    I hope - if the Dems win back congress - that they don't waste a bunch of time trying to hang Bush up on something. I think Bush's flaws are painfully obvious and we don't need to waste tight taxpayer dollars on a Clinton-esque investigation. He'll be gone after 2008 - and people are watching him closer than ever... so let him ride it out and focus on getting someone better in 2008.
  • WMAWMA Posts: 175
    NakedClown wrote:
    I often wonder what positive things could have been done in this country with the time and resources poured into a massive investigation that gave us the following truth:

    Bill Clinton received a blow job from an intern and lied about it under oath.

    I hope - if the Dems win back congress - that they don't waste a bunch of time trying to hang Bush up on something. I think Bush's flaws are painfully obvious and we don't need to waste tight taxpayer dollars on a Clinton-esque investigation. He'll be gone after 2008 - and people are watching him closer than ever... so let him ride it out and focus on getting someone better in 2008.

    I'm not saying they should interview everyone that ever came in contact with him to try to find anything they can to hang on him... but, certain things need to be looked into. Secret prisons, the Abramoff stuff with the whitehouse, The warrantless wiretapping, The Iraq war etc. The stuff important to the country.
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    NakedClown wrote:
    Clinton was no angel, but there are two reasons that come to mind:

    1: He was a better leader than GW - while he certainly had advisors and people around him to help make decisions, he didn't lean on them as painfully as GW leans on the likes of Rummy, Dick and Condi (and even shaddier characters - ROVE!!!)... Clinton inspired more confidence because he had (has) a mind for politics (and lets not forget that it is politics)... and unintentionally I think a lot of people identified with him because he was so obviously and painfully HUMAN. That's something that people latch on to, especially when it is seen in such a charismatic person occupying the highest post in the country.


    2: Whether he was better or not, and whether he had anything to do with it or not (which is another conversation) - people are very sentimental for how much better things were in the 90s than they are now. And they were better... and since he is a poster boy for the 90s, he is looked back upon with a fond eye...

    Me? I like him because I agree with him on most everything politically and like the fact that the guy is human like the rest of us...

    I beg to differ. Anyone who could marry/sleep with Hillary CANT be human.
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545
    WMA wrote:
    I'm not saying they should interview everyone that ever came in contact with him to try to find anything they can to hang on him... but, certain things need to be looked into. Secret prisons, the Abramoff stuff with the whitehouse, The warrantless wiretapping, The Iraq war etc. The stuff important to the country.

    I agree with you and see what you're saying - but I look at things like the secret prisons and warrantless wiretapping - and that's stuff that can be fixed with the right people in office. The Iraq war is going to take time - U.S. involvement there will extend into the next presidency...

    They could nail him on the Abramoff stuff - and other backroom deals, etc... but I don't think they'll need Congress to do that...
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm not sure why everyone holds this guy on such a high pedestal. Is everyone mesmerized by his speaking ability? Trust me, I dislike Bush as much as Clinton. Iraq has been one of the biggest fuckups of all time. But why is Clinton such an angel? In Bush's mind, while everyone here will disagree, he really believes he is protecting America to the best of his ability. Clinton is far more corrupt and 2 faced then Bush. I believe Bush's problem is he has too many hard heads in his inner circle. Clinton did it all on his own.



    http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/clinton-scandals.html

    http://prorev.com/wwindex.htm

    http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Clinton_Scandals/index.html

    it's funny you attack sites that use major networks and papers as sources and yet here's your first link being a tripod site :D

    i never voted for clinton and i'd never vote for hillary, but you can't say bush isn't corrupt! he cuts back envirnmental laws to help his contributers and loads of other shite.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • John BudgeJohn Budge Posts: 259
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I would argue this place wouldn't much different from the 90s had we NOT been attacked at the beginning of the 00's. Bush's fiscal policies seem to keep our economy doing great. its the forgein policy that has fucked us up. people will argue with the tax cuts but you cant deny our economy has remained strong with Bush. I have an Economics degree and no matter what party line you stand on, Tax cuts do more good then harm. but anyway, thanks for posting. good points
    Tax cuts are great when the gov't isn't in the red. Passing more tax cuts when you're already billions of dollars in the hole is fucking moronic, but coming from W, it's sadly predictable. Fiscal policy is not as important as the administration would lead you to believe.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    El_Kabong wrote:
    it's funny you attack sites that use major networks and papers as sources and yet here's your first link being a tripod site :D

    i never voted for clinton and i'd never vote for hillary, but you can't say bush isn't corrupt! he cuts back envirnmental laws to help his contributers and loads of other shite.


    I never attacked major networks and papers....I am the usually the one getting attacked for agreeing with them on issues like 9/11. the only site I have a major problem with is the 911research bullshit.

    [/sarcasm] damn I thought tripod sites only state facts.
  • John BudgeJohn Budge Posts: 259
    PaperPlates wrote:
    I beg to differ. Anyone who could marry/sleep with Hillary CANT be human.
    Wow, what a great point!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    John Budge wrote:
    Fiscal policy is not as important as the administration would lead you to believe.

    I disagree fair enough
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I disagree fair enough


    how so? we went from a surplus to the largest defecit since he took office. he gives tax cuts and tax breaks to his investors while cutting social programs. what has he done to get the budget under control?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    El_Kabong wrote:
    how so? we went from a surplus to the largest defecit since he took office. he gives tax cuts and tax breaks to his investors while cutting social programs. what has he done to get the budget under control?


    congress controls the budget not him. and pre 9/11, rumsfield was looking for ways to cut military spending, that should count for something, does it not?

    you want to blame the deficit on bush? did you see the burst of the stock market bubble? the only reason we had a surplus was from the ridiclous amount of capital gains taxes on artifically high stock prices. take that away and add a war or 2 and we have a deficit.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    congress controls the budget not him. and pre 9/11, rumsfield was looking for ways to cut military spending, that should count for something, does it not?

    you want to blame the deficit on bush? did you see the burst of the stock market bubble? the only reason we had a surplus was from the ridiclous amount of capital gains taxes on artifically high stock prices. take that away and add a war or 2 and we have a deficit.


    oh, he's had no control over the cost of the war in iraq? my bad.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    El_Kabong wrote:
    oh, he's had no control over the cost of the war in iraq? my bad.


    every argument about bush always comes down to the iraq war. leave that out and he must be the best president we ever had.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    congress controls the budget not him.
    A Republican congress. Who is the leader of the Republican party again?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hippiemom wrote:
    A Republican congress. Who is the leader of the Republican party again?


    ME
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    every argument about bush always comes down to the iraq war. leave that out and he must be the best president we ever had.


    no, there's lots of other things...cutting the head start program, cutting the program to test school lunch meat for salmonella <which he put back in saying it was a mistake after too many ppl complained>, cutting student loans, cutting medicare/aid <hmmm, didn't he run in 2000 saying he was deeply concerned about all the ppl w/o healthcare? just like him saying we're not the world police and you can't use the military for nation building>, all the cuts to environmental laws, dismissing the law suits against polluters who broke federal law, giving more and more tax breaks to the oil and gas industry <who coincidentally have 'donated' roughly a billion $ to politicians since 2000>, all the things he's vetoed and boycotted at the UN like comprehensive nuke bans, biological and chemical weapons bans, rights of the child....i coudl go on and on...it's not just iraq...but it was a nice attempt at dodging my point.
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    El_Kabong wrote:
    no, there's lots of other things...cutting the head start program, cutting the program to test school lunch meat for salmonella <which he put back in saying it was a mistake after too many ppl complained>, cutting student loans, cutting medicare/aid <hmmm, didn't he run in 2000 saying he was deeply concerned about all the ppl w/o healthcare? just like him saying we're not the world police and you can't use the military for nation building>, all the cuts to environmental laws, dismissing the law suits against polluters who broke federal law, giving more and more tax breaks to the oil and gas industry <who coincidentally have 'donated' roughly a billion $ to politicians since 2000>, all the things he's vetoed and boycotted at the UN like comprehensive nuke bans, biological and chemical weapons bans, rights of the child....i coudl go on and on...it's not just iraq...but it was a nice attempt at dodging my point.



    people complain about too much spending and also complain about making cuts. sounds like a win win situation to me
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    people complain about too much spending and also complain about making cuts. sounds like a win win situation to me


    i think the cuts he made are a bit smaller than the reckless spending of his
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i think the cuts he made are a bit smaller than the reckless spending of his


    thats great but you still complain when he does either.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    worst president ever imo
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats great but you still complain when he does either.


    no, i complain on what it's being spent on. if he's using tax money to fund a weapons program owned by his dad's company, which the pentagon voted agaisnt funding repeatedly, only to have it pulled, again, after the pentagon said they didn't want it, but only after the contract was paid...i have a problem w/ that. if he has millions to give halliburton as a bonus for feeding our troops spoiled meat but no money for their protection <body armor, armored vehicles> i have a problem w/ it. kinda like if my g/f went and blew the mortgage money on coke i'd have a problem w/ that instead of her spending the money on the mortgage...see how that works?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545
    miller8966 wrote:
    worst president ever imo

    Who - Bush or Clinton - this thread has devolved into a different thread, so I'm not sure who you are talking about...
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    jlew24asu wrote:
    In Bush's mind, while everyone here will disagree, he really believes he is protecting America to the best of his ability. Clinton is far more corrupt and 2 faced then Bush.
    That is where the biggest difference is then between you and I. I couldn't disagree with you more on that point. There is no doubt in my mind at all that Clinton had and still has the better of this country at heart of all of his desicions that effect what he does (blow jobs are not here nor there). Bush on the other hand couldn't be more for following his own agenda and couldn't care less what is better for this country. I do beleive down to the core, President George Walker Bush is a very bad man.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    El_Kabong....tellin' it as it is.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    I mean just Katrina alone....the way he conducted the Federal Responce....he's a very bad man.

    I don't understand how ANYONE can defend Bush and say that Clinton was worse....what a joke!
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