How bad is Iraq?
WindNoSail
Posts: 580
All these 'facts' come from Wickipedia:
Pearl Harbor 2403 military and 68 civilans killed (that was one day folks)
World War II resulted in the deaths of over sixty million people
World War I millions dead
Viet Nam- U.S. killed in action, died of wounds, died of other causes, missing and declared dead - 57,690. South Vietnamese military killed - 243,748. Republic of Korea killed - 4,407. Australia and New Zealand (combined) - 469. Thailand - 351. The Vietnam People's Army and NLF (combined) - 666,000. North Vietnamese civilian fatalities - 65,000. South Vietnamese civilian dead - 300,000.
Iraq - The icasualties.org website reports the death toll since the invasion in March 2003 as being 3,018 American lives (as of January 9, 2007). There have been a further 251 deaths among the troops of other coalition nations: Australia 2. Bulgaria 13. Denmark 6. El Salvador 5. Estonia 2. Hungary 1. Italy 33. Kazakhstan 1. Latvia 3. Netherlands 2. Poland 18. Romania 2. Slovakia 4. Spain 11. Thailand 2. Ukraine 18. United Kingdom 128.
Iraqi insurgents? Unknown, 30K? More?
As of November 4, 2006, the U.N. High Commissioner on Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.
As far as war goes, this war isn't exactly a defeat for the US militarily. But I think most people see it that way.
We are winning the battles and losing the war. Why? No clear mission, politics leading the military, media influences, no declaration of war, party politics?
Someone tell me that the problem isn't just us, ie we are just weak minded little wusses who can't stomach a real war, and don't have the will to win...i hope that isn't it but it does worry me.
Pearl Harbor 2403 military and 68 civilans killed (that was one day folks)
World War II resulted in the deaths of over sixty million people
World War I millions dead
Viet Nam- U.S. killed in action, died of wounds, died of other causes, missing and declared dead - 57,690. South Vietnamese military killed - 243,748. Republic of Korea killed - 4,407. Australia and New Zealand (combined) - 469. Thailand - 351. The Vietnam People's Army and NLF (combined) - 666,000. North Vietnamese civilian fatalities - 65,000. South Vietnamese civilian dead - 300,000.
Iraq - The icasualties.org website reports the death toll since the invasion in March 2003 as being 3,018 American lives (as of January 9, 2007). There have been a further 251 deaths among the troops of other coalition nations: Australia 2. Bulgaria 13. Denmark 6. El Salvador 5. Estonia 2. Hungary 1. Italy 33. Kazakhstan 1. Latvia 3. Netherlands 2. Poland 18. Romania 2. Slovakia 4. Spain 11. Thailand 2. Ukraine 18. United Kingdom 128.
Iraqi insurgents? Unknown, 30K? More?
As of November 4, 2006, the U.N. High Commissioner on Refugees estimated that 1.8 million Iraqis had been displaced to neighboring countries, and 1.6 million were displaced internally, with nearly 100,000 Iraqis fleeing to Syria and Jordan each month.
As far as war goes, this war isn't exactly a defeat for the US militarily. But I think most people see it that way.
We are winning the battles and losing the war. Why? No clear mission, politics leading the military, media influences, no declaration of war, party politics?
Someone tell me that the problem isn't just us, ie we are just weak minded little wusses who can't stomach a real war, and don't have the will to win...i hope that isn't it but it does worry me.
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
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Comments
This post clearly shows the reason why I stay away from this website... why do I think it will ever change?!?!?!?!?!?!?
What do you mean?
you stupid lib
-Enoch Powell
Example number 2
Yer a woman.
-Enoch Powell
Nobody on these boards has a clue what's going on in Iraq right now, to include myself who spent a year there. The media lies, BBC FOX CNN, it's all horseshit. Al Jazeera is borderline Al Qaeda, they had a hand in an attack I was involved in.
Everybody can speculate, it's so damn easy. Numbers are over-exaggerated by epic proportions, especially by left wingers.
Sewage? Power? Water? Getting better with what we had to work with.
Shiite militias are really screwing that place for everyone. We should have killed Sadr a long time ago.
Is this a question or a statement that only you get?
Yes, I agree...we are probably very similar to the pre-WWII generation in that we really dont' like getting involved in other peoples business, especially fighting their wars for them. No one should have an acceptance of war. We waited a long time to get involved, and it wasn't until Pearl harbor we had the will. If we had pre-empted, I think it might have changed the war.
I don't think we have won a war that we didn't declare it via Congress. I think that is telling, cause declaration puts the accountability on the congress and they directly answer to the people, in a way.
My son's friend is there now, and flatly said it is not as is reported. He seems to feel the Iraqi's want us there. But, it still sucks if you aren't clearly winning.
dude, You would've had more to work with if you did'nt blow up half the shit to start off with.
Who are you/america to say who should die and who should live? america has no right taking lives and destroying countries.
Hey genius, you know most of the power stations and water pumping facilities were using equipment from King Faisel's day, yeah that's right, the 1930's. The stuff was only around 70 years old, what do you think happened? We decided to replace, not repair. Looters don't help much either.
Keep watching your British Bullshit Channel or other form of media garbage and soak it up as nothing but the un-spun truth.
I am sorry to hear that, that must be tough for you son and your daughter, a reminder to both of them of the danger.
So, what is a clear mission? How is it the we knew we had to win some wars, and others it seems unclear exactly what we are supposed to do. It would seem logical you would never enter a war you didn't think you had to win, but it seems in practice that doesn't always happen.
In reality, we are fighting people who kill civilians for sport. If we leave, it won't end...next time it will be on our terms.
Yes I know this, but it was working, plus i'd like to add that america did'nt spend billions and billions and kill thousands and thousands or innocent people just to "replace" water pumps and btw, The looters are a direct result of americas actions in Iraq.
anyway, if america's so in love with building infrastrcuture, they should try working on some of the many US cities and towns that need help.
Buddy, if some of it worked half the time, I would have been stunned. The looters have no justification to steal, they were stealing copper from streat lights and other things necessary to keep things workinh properly.
And as far as infastructure in the US, I'm pretty comfortable here in Seattle. No problems I can think of as of right now.
You should see some parts of Orlando.
----
Well they are looters, what do you expect them to do? be building space ships? they are just doing what they do, j/k I'm tired. I guess i'll continue this later.
but before I go, point is, America fucked up big time. they continue to make a mess and history shows that they never learn from the mistakes they make.
and as far as justification goes. america is not justified at all in it's actions dealing with iraq.
In some of our wars ... the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWII ... there was no mistaking who the enemy was, or the nature of the threat they posed. Yes, it would seem logical not to enter a war without a clear plan to win, a clear definition of victory, and a clear exit strategy ... but I've never accused the Bush administration of being logical, that's for damn sure. We had none of those things in Vietnam either, and we all know how that turned out. The origin of the problem with this war was that we were led into it with lies.
It won't end if we stay, either. I was opposed to this from the beginning, we had no business destroying this country in the first place. But now that we've done it we have an obligation to finish it and to right as many wrongs as possible, and it's an obligation we cannot fulfill. From the very beginnings of this war, I've hoped to be wrong at every step, and I hope to be wrong now, but I don't think I am. We need to do something that we are incapable of doing. We've taken a lot of lives, we've destroyed a lot of resources, a lot of property, we've wreaked havoc with the lives of millions, and there's no way we can make it right. Not only that, but there's only a handful of people in the entire world who REALLY know why we went there in the first place (we can speculate, but we don't know for sure), and they're not telling.
Olberman was right on at least one thing ... Bush has become the president who cried "wolf!" The only way out of this now is simply to leave. It's not right and it's not honorable, but we don't have the manpower to do the right or honorable thing.
now he is ignoring the US congress and the american people.
bill clinton was crucified for getting a blowjob
you yanks- pull your finger out
geeeeezz
Comparing war dead in WWII to Iraq is laughable at best. This is a grasping for straws to find a justification point for this war. America suffered many losses in World war II losses due to so many circumstances... such as trainned German Soldiers, Messerschmidt Planes, Tiger Tanks, 88mm cannons, MG-42 machine guns and Lugar and Mauser small arms.
And the ones that cry... the insurgents don't 'fight fair'. Well, would you be happy if we gave them jets and tanks and helicopter gunships with their insignia painted on the sides? That would be a 'Fair Fight', right?
And finally... the view point of the morons who believe that Americans are the enemy... not the Islamic Religious Fundamentalist that is willing to wage global acts of terror. Someone who disagrees with you... your political leadership... your political ideology... is seen as the enemy. To me... that is pathetic. A divided nation never succeeds. Maybe if you quit seeing some one who disagrees with you and focused on the real enemy in this situation, something constructive will result. Something our leadership should have done in 2003.
Hail, Hail!!!
he was crucified for lying under oath.
spin, spin, spin.
~Michael Bolton
He lied under oath but the only collateral was a dress.
W lied (I'm not sure about the under oath, but whatever) and the cost is a bit higher.
I'm just backing up the point.
all i was pointing out was it wasn't about the blow job, it was about lying under oath. big difference, don't you think?
i can't believe i actually have to spell it out.
~Michael Bolton
Well actually I wasn't pointing out my opinion. But here it is, yes it is a big difference. I think political figures, especially important ones like the president should never lie when speaking to the people. I think wether or not he is under oath this man should not lie to the people that trusted him enough to give him their votes. And the only difference I see is the consequences of these lies.
How is the technology on the oil fields? I doubt that the oil rigs are fed by 70 year old generating stations and I bet that they have pretty good water pumping facilites, also.
Do we have to pay for everything... or just the shit we blew up (and continue to blow up)?
And do we have to pay for new stuff... or can we replace their old ratty stuff from junk we find at garage sales?
Hail, Hail!!!
weapons of mass destruction
Terrorism connection
etc etc etc
in all fairness... since WWII, that's what our military has been developed, equiped, and trained to fight. so we would be much better prepared to fight tanks, planes, etc. rather than a guy walking down the street with 15 pounds of c4 strapped to his torso or an ied planted in an intersection. look at the original desert storm. that war wasn't fought by insurgents, it was fought by tanks and infantry. and we kicked the shit out of them in less than a week.
we should have learned after vietnam that wars aren't always as cut and dry as previously thought. but we didn't.
I know... but, we knew this going in... at least some of us did. I didn't figure this on my own... I learned about it from reading about Norman Swartzkopf, Colin Powell and George H.W. Bush. They all knew in 1991 that going into Baghdad would destroy the fragile Arab coalition and lead to a long, protracted occupation that would not have the overwhelming support of the American people. The people who say stuff like, "We sholud have finished the job in 1991" are usually the ones that have nothing to risk, personally. The job in 1991 was to eject the Iraqi military from Kuwait... that's it and it was completed.
The best option WAS to have the Iraqi people rebel against Hussein... and we should have backed them on this. We didn't.
...
Now... I don't blame them for fighting the fight they are waging. It's all they've got. We're supposed to make the adjustments to fight them on their terms, since they cannot and will not fight us on theirs. There is no such thing as a 'Fair Fight'. A fight is a fight and you do what you have to in order to walk away from it. If you are faced with 3 guys looking you kick your ass... you do what it takes, right?
Hail, Hail!!!
The last gentleman's war was the American Civil War, according to Winston Churchill.
I sometimes wonder why America has become this superpower. Why we have to constantly police the world. Why did we have to become so large after WWII?
I would be fine with being a regular, small country that owed nothing to the rest of the world. We could have a small economy that benefits OUR people and a small government that takes its orders from us instead of us taking orders from the government.
We wouldn't be in this situation with islamic terrorism if we just let them keep their shit to themselves. The only people that want to be involved with the middle east is the Israel lobby and the neo-cons. The rest of America could give a shit about the middle east.
I don't see our lone superpower lasting much longer...
-Enoch Powell