if

Eliot Rosewater

deadnote wrote:

jesus was hung on a cross and went through a sad death so we could have salvation

thank you god

Assuming there's a god, wouldn't one also be able to assume he's NOT the blood-thirsty god from the bible?

Anyway....the original posters question is one I've wondered many times. Why did HE get to be savior of the world? Why not one of us? I've been told that he was more righteous in heaven before we came to earth. But how would that happen unless God created him to be that way. So it all comes down to spiritual matter. Jesus was made from higher quality spiritual matter than any of us.

Of course, I don't believe any of that but that's what I concluded, if I were to be illogical enough to even entertain such ideas anymore.

chopitdown

don't gimme no wrote:

Anyway....the original posters question is one I've wondered many times. Why did HE get to be savior of the world? Why not one of us? I've been told that he was more righteous in heaven before we came to earth. But how would that happen unless God created him to be that way. So it all comes down to spiritual matter. Jesus was made from higher quality spiritual matter than any of us.

well Jesus, according to the Bible, is God so he would be "higher quality spiritual matter".

gue_barium

chopitdown wrote:

well Jesus, according to the Bible, is God so he would be "higher quality spiritual matter".

heheehe.

According to a book written by men, no less. I guess that puts those women in their place now, doesn't it?

Cosmo

chopitdown wrote:

well Jesus, according to the Bible, is God so he would be "higher quality spiritual matter".

...
if you please, me not being a Bible memorizing guy... where in the Bible... Chapter:Verse? I want to read it myself.
Thanx.

elmer

oil alternative wrote:

If we are all gods children

then what is so special about jesus?

You words verge on sacriledge. Please dont verge.

If all Cats die.....and Socrates died........was Socrates a cat?

Byrnzie

PaperPlates wrote:

Not to mention the whole water into wine thing, he was a big hit at parties.

I can't believe PP's made me smile. What's the damn world comin' to?

Byrnzie

elmer wrote:

If all Cats die.....and Socrates died........was Socrates a cat?

No. He was a philosopher. The only cat that ever qualified as a philosopher was Fat Freddies cat, of The fabulous furry freak brothers fame.

Byrnzie

Jesus built my hotrod. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PUQdCk-d8w

chopitdown

Cosmo wrote:

...
if you please, me not being a Bible memorizing guy... where in the Bible... Chapter:Verse? I want to read it myself.
Thanx.

John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’

John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"


Colossians 1:13-20
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=58&chapter=1&version=49

chopitdown

gue_barium wrote:

heheehe.

According to a book written by men, no less. I guess that puts those women in their place now, doesn't it?

Not at all. Jesus first appeared to women after his resurrection and shepherds were the first to see him after he was born. Both are significant b/c in that era of time both were considered 2nd class citizens. Here's another resource: The second link demonstrates the social injustices that were common practice at that time and why what jesus did truly was radical.

http://theologytoday.ptsem.edu/jul1986/v43-2-article4.htm
http://www.godswordtowomen.org/studies/articles/jesus.htm

baraka

chopitdown wrote:

i also think there's a lot of people out there who want to water down what jesus said or ignore some things he reportedly said.

I agree that many misinterpret and inject their bias into the teachings. Again, Jesus was not a moralizer or a hellfire & brimstone preacher. This is how he is presented by many and unfortunately this tends to turn people away from his teachings.

chopitdown wrote:

On a side, jesus said to seek spiritual guidance AS little children, not from them

Jesus said we must return and become like children (Matt. 18:3) Children are the great artists of life and hold characteristics that adults tend to lose as they grow older. We tend to lose our zest for life because of the deterioration of our mindfulness and the increase of attachments as we 'grow up'. How does one 'seek guidance AS little children' without observing and learning from them?

ArmsinaV

Jesus was (is) no more the "original radical" from a leftist's point of view the a conservative "moralist".

baraka, Jesus preached all the time in the Bible. His parables, lessons, etc., come largely from sermons given to large groups of people. And not a moralist? Does this mean He didn't give specific instructions on morality? From telling a woman who was shacking up with a man to "sin no more" to commanding generosity to saying it's a sin to lust in your heart. Jesus's entire message was how to act and be and believe. (In Him)

He also mentions Hell and says people will go there, and the idea of Hell is something many discount today.

Jesus was an ancient Jew, and He must be seen in that context. He's not a "radical" like Che Guevara or anyone else today. He's also not a "family values" conservative, but let's not act like he walked around spouting general, vague spiritual sayings and not condemning anyone/anything.

even flow?

chopitdown wrote:

John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

Can I question the "chosen people" line without being labeled?

chopitdown

baraka wrote:

Jesus said we must return and become like children (Matt. 18:3) Children are the great artists of life and hold characteristics that adults tend to lose as they grow older. We tend to lose our zest for life because of the deterioration of our mindfulness and the increase of attachments as we 'grow up'. How does one 'seek guidance AS little children' without observing and learning from them?

i guess we have a difference of opinion on what from little children means. When i hear someone say I am going to learn from them; that means I will seek wisdom from them. I see your point as to learning from them re: actions and observations but your original post seemed more to mean we should ask them about spiritual teachings, which I don't agree with. But from this explanation we are generally talking about the same things.

chopitdown

even flow? wrote:

Can I question the "chosen people" line without being labeled?

yes, you inquisitive jack-ass, you can

baraka

chopitdown wrote:

i guess we have a difference of opinion on what from little children means. When i hear someone say I am going to learn from them; that means I will seek wisdom from them. I see your point as to learning from them re: actions and observations but your original post seemed more to mean we should ask them about spiritual teachings, which I don't agree with. But from this explanation we are generally talking about the same things.

Perhaps I was not clear in my original post. When I say 'learn from the children', I mean through observance. I think we are on the same page about this.

baraka

ArmsinaV wrote:

Jesus was (is) no more the "original radical" from a leftist's point of view the a conservative "moralist".

baraka, Jesus preached all the time in the Bible. His parables, lessons, etc., come largely from sermons given to large groups of people. And not a moralist? Does this mean He didn't give specific instructions on morality? From telling a woman who was shacking up with a man to "sin no more" to commanding generosity to saying it's a sin to lust in your heart. Jesus's entire message was how to act and be and believe. (In Him)

He also mentions Hell and says people will go there, and the idea of Hell is something many discount today.

Jesus was an ancient Jew, and He must be seen in that context. He's not a "radical" like Che Guevara or anyone else today. He's also not a "family values" conservative, but let's not act like he walked around spouting general, vague spiritual sayings and not condemning anyone/anything.

ArmsinaV, I have to get off to work, so I respond in more detail later. I will just say that I think (just my opinion) that a lot of the dogma obscure the inner depth & beauty of Jesus's teachings. Also, I will add that in no way was Jesus like Che Guevara, so I agree with you there. I will attempt to explain my view more in depth later.