if

Anon

oil alternative wrote:

If we are all gods children

then what is so special about jesus?

And can someone please tell me why, if there is a god, he would allow one of his children to be killed by a drunk driver when the drunk driver walked away?
And don't tell me it's because 'he has a special place in heaven for the one who died', that's crap. There was a special place here for that person too and now they are gone forever. I'm not blaming god for this happening, because it's happened and that's just how it is, but don't tell me god is good and kind and merciful when a innocent person is killed and the killer walks away. What's so good and kind and merciful about that.

Sorry for the rant but i have lost all faith. I will never understand. Our Parish Priest told me that he is in Heaven, experiencing ultimate joy and that his current place in Heaven is far better than anything here on Earth. I wanted to punch him. See to me, that's like saying screw you, we've taken your brother and left you the drunk driver. That's what we think of you. Bah. Screw you God.

blackredyellow

deadnote wrote:

jesus was hung on a cross and went through a sad death so we could have salvation

thank you god

that was a trick, and the fix was in... I don't understand why christians make such a big deal about him "dying"... if he was the son of god, he was going to heaven which by all accounts is so much better then being here anyway, so what's the big sacrafice? he was going home...

my2hands

bootlegger10 wrote:

Jesus is God. The Holy Trinity is made up the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Humans are formed in the image of God and are referred to as children of God, but we are not God (like Jesus).

it's funny how you state this as fact...

my2hands

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I've been saying this for years! He was all about spreading the love and being anti violence and non-judgemental. He spoke out against corruption. And the sandals, long hair..of course...he couldn't be more liberal!

i bought my mom a t-shirt that says "Jesus was a liberal"... she is a christian, and she loves it

chopitdown

blackredyellow wrote:

that was a trick, and the fix was in... I don't understand why christians make such a big deal about him "dying"... if he was the son of god, he was going to heaven which by all accounts is so much better then being here anyway, so what's the big sacrafice? he was going home...

Some christians believe he experienced complete separation from God or Hell, upon his death for those 3 days.

chopitdown

Pj_Gurl wrote:

And can someone please tell me why, if there is a god, he would allow one of his children to be killed by a drunk driver when the drunk driver walked away?
And don't tell me it's because 'he has a special place in heaven for the one who died', that's crap. There was a special place here for that person too and now they are gone forever. I'm not blaming god for this happening, because it's happened and that's just how it is, but don't tell me god is good and kind and merciful when a innocent person is killed and the killer walks away. What's so good and kind and merciful about that.

Sorry for the rant but i have lost all faith. I will never understand. Our Parish Priest told me that he is in Heaven, experiencing ultimate joy and that his current place in Heaven is far better than anything here on Earth. I wanted to punch him. See to me, that's like saying screw you, we've taken your brother and left you the drunk driver. That's what we think of you. Bah. Screw you God.

for an attempt to answer that question read the problem of pain by CS lewis.

blackredyellow

chopitdown wrote:

Some christians believe he experienced complete separation from God or Hell, upon his death for those 3 days.

then where did he go? I'm honestly curious and not being a smartass here... If god is the all encompassing creator of the universe (even hell if I'm not mistaken), where else is there to go?

norm

PaperPlates wrote:

Not to mention the whole water into wine thing, he was a big hit at parties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu_HkLeL8ZU

:D

chopitdown

baraka wrote:

I think Jesus was pretty special. IMO, I think there is a lot of confusions and misconceptions about Jesus. I think people 'worship' him or attack him more than they actually listen to what he had to say. Jesus ultimately was a poet and artist. Jesus seldom preached or moralized. Jesus was the master artist of life and he took life as the raw material to express his soul & he brought quality to life. It is often hard to get to the essence of Jesus through the filter of institutionalized religion. Due to this, there are a lot of negative ideas people have about Jesus. Firstly, he was not a hellfire & brimstone preacher. Something that comes to mind is when he asked us to seek spiritual guidance from little children opposed to the moralizing & proper Pharisees. Secondly, he was not a moralist. Goodness can not be compelled, it has to be a spontaneous expression of the soul. Above all, Jesus was a lover of life.

I will also add that Jesus was the original liberal and a radical one at that! Might explain the socks with sandals.

i also think there's a lot of people out there who want to water down what jesus said or ignore some things he reportedly said.
On a side, jesus said to seek spiritual guidance AS little children, not from them
Matthew 18:2And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,
3and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and (C)become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;
6but (D)whoever (E)causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea...If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the (I)fiery hell.

http://www.necessaryprose.com/whatjesus.htm

chopitdown

blackredyellow wrote:

then where did he go? I'm honestly curious and not being a smartass here... If god is the all encompassing creator of the universe (even hell if I'm not mistaken), where else is there to go?

Some people believe that the concept of hell is merely lack of being near God after death...so basically it's heaven or grave only or annihilation. Others think that hell is a real tangible place created by God. Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/heav_hel2.htm

Cosmo

If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream-and not make dreams your master; If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And-which is more-you'll be a Man, my son!
...
Rudyard Kipling

even flow?

chopitdown wrote:

Some christians believe he experienced complete separation from God or Hell, upon his death for those 3 days.

Would that be the Earth by any chance?


As for what is special about Jesus? In my eyes not too much. A few stories about the guy and that is about all. Coperfield's tricks put that old school alchemy stuff to shame.

Cosmo

deadnote wrote:

jesus was hung on a cross and went through a sad death so we could have salvation

thank you god

...
According to who? God? Jesus, Himself? Men that wrote about Jesus after His death? The Church that was founded upon His Name? People who interpret the books written by men about the life of Jesus after His death? The people who listen to the men in the Church founded upon His Name who interpret the books written by men about the life of Jesus after His death? Who?
...
And I would invest a lot more stock in Christianity (or any other religion) if the people who claimed to be Christians acted more like the teachings of Jesus. I mean, how many Christians support War? The Death Penalty? What about all that 'Love Thy Enemy' and 'Turn the Other Cheek' thing? Or how about placing humanity above economics? The same way I don't believe the Muslim that believes Allah blesses the destruction of lives in his name. I'm more along the line of thinking Jesus saying, "Do Not Kill in My Name" and Mohammed saying, "Do Not Die for mine".
...
And if you think about it... why would Jesus save America? Aren't we are the modern equivilent of Rome. Shouldn't He come back to save Darfur? I mean, I know I live a pretty comfortable life... a Hell of a lot more comfortably than the poor kid in Africa who lives under the constant pain of hunger and the continuing threat of having his life ended by machette. If Jesus is coming to save us Middle Class Americans... I would think He might have His priorities all screwed up.

chopitdown

even flow? wrote:

Would that be the Earth by any chance?


As for what is special about Jesus? In my eyes not too much. A few stories about the guy and that is about all. Coperfield's tricks put that old school alchemy stuff to shame.

it very well may be, at least it may be Canada

i think the water into wine woulda been a whole lot cooler if he had dry ice and a laser show, i'll give you that.

Kann

Cosmo wrote:

...
And if you think about it... why would Jesus save America? Aren't we are the modern equivilent of Rome. Shouldn't He come back to save Darfur? I mean, I know I live a pretty comfortable life... a Hell of a lot more comfortably than the poor kid in Africa who lives under the constant pain of hunger and the continuing threat of having his life ended by machette. If Jesus is coming to save us Middle Class Americans... I would think He might have His priorities all screwed up.

I think he is meant to save us from the burden of being men. After that Darfurians (?) will have an easier judgment than we lazy filthyrich occidentals. What you can do with your time and money is help make the life of some people in Darfur a bit less hellish, that's supposed to help your salvation application.
Basically, if people spent more time actually following the only thing jesus asked us rather than fighting over insignificant details of religions legitimating human hatred the world could be less of a drag.

Cosmo

Kann wrote:

I think he is meant to save us from the burden of being men. After that Darfurians (?) will have an easier judgment than we lazy filthyrich occidentals. What you can do with your time and money is help make the life of some people in Darfur a bit less hellish, that's supposed to help your salvation application.
Basically, if people spent more time actually following the only thing jesus asked us rather than fighting over insignificant details of religions legitimating human hatred the world could be less of a drag.

...
So... as Christians... we SHOULD take what Jesus said at the Sermon at the mount and practice those teaching in our everyday life... instead of letting Him take all of the blame for our sins, failures and misgivings? That we should stop taking little bits of what in written in the Bible to rationalize our actions by sayine Jesus validates them? (i.e. Jesus: "I come not in peace, but with a sword." ... justifies War... murder).
...
and don't get me wrong... I don't mistrust Jesus. But, i don't have a whole lot of faith in His fan club... or many of His fans.

catefrances

Kann wrote:

I think he is meant to save us from the burden of being men.

well thank god i'm a woman. i am already saved.

Kann

Cosmo wrote:

...
So... as Christians... we SHOULD take what Jesus said at the Sermon at the mount and practice those teaching in our everyday life... instead of letting Him take all of the blame for our sins, failures and misgivings? That we should stop taking little bits of what in written in the Bible to rationalize our actions by sayine Jesus validates them? (i.e. Jesus: "I come not in peace, but with a sword." ... justifies War... murder).
...
and don't get me wrong... I don't mistrust Jesus. But, i don't have a whole lot of faith in His fan club... or many of His fans.

I think (it's only my opinion) we should forget the obscure part which are pretty much up for interpretation, and interpreting 2000 year old scripts is not as easy as it seems. However the message "peace and love" and "do unto others as you would do to yourself" seem pretty straightforward. I was more thinking about these straightforward messages than the obscure ones tainted with more or less pathetic interpretations depending on which fan club you listen to.
Nobody is perfect (again, my opinion!) so basically let's not say "my interpretation is better than yours" and agree to follow only the parts that are easily understandable.
I don't have any faith in any fan clubs (not talking music here!) as every single one is biaised to have me believe some stupid thing.

edit :

catefrances wrote:

well thank god i'm a woman. i am already saved.

Hey, it wasn't my idea!

catefrances

Kann wrote:

Hey, it wasn't my idea!

whose ever idea it was, i'm still saved.

Cosmo

Kann wrote:

I think (it's only my opinion) we should forget the obscure part which are pretty much up for interpretation, and interpreting 2000 year old scripts is not as easy as it seems. However the message "peace and love" and "do unto others as you would do to yourself" seem pretty straightforward. I was more thinking about these straightforward messages than the obscure ones tainted with more or less pathetic interpretations depending on which fan club you listen to.
Nobody is perfect (again, my opinion!) so basically let's not say "my interpretation is better than yours" and agree to follow only the parts that are easily understandable.
I don't have any faith in any fan clubs (not talking music here!) as every single one is biaised to have me believe some stupid thing.

...
It sounds like you and I are on common ground... if I'm understanding where you are coming from. We don't buy into the interpretation of the Bible according to the Church or the preacher. And that no one interpretation is better than another... faith is personal and you should express it in your own way... by living your life to those guidelines, instead of trying to make others adhere to your beliefs. Am I far offf base with this?
And I, for one, make my own interpretations based upon what is written (because it is pretty much all we can go by... revised or ommited if applicable) and my own life experiences. And yeah... you come away with the basic, 'Love Thy Neighbor' and 'Do Unto Others' things. I'm not worrying about having others believe in anything I say or do. It's my gig, just like yours is yours... neither is right or wrong because the truth is... neither of us knows for sure. I don't follow... nor do I lead. This in my journey.
And, yeah... no one can be like Jesus... but, we can at least, follow His teachings, instead of taking one line He had spoken out of context and mold it to fit our needs. I can't stop people from doing this... and it's not up to me to do so... I just don't think that is doing Him justice.
But, that's just me... so, i don't do that.