The debates will be awesome

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  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,242
    Republicans are on the bottom looking up and they may not reach the top again.

    Peace
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  • Jimmydean55
    Jimmydean55 Posts: 1,581
    I watched Obama debate Alan Keyes here in IL when they were running for senate. Obama is a fine debater, although, it doesn't take much to beat Alan Keyes. I have the same feeling for Obama v McCain.
    Smellyman wrote:
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  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    Jimmydean55 wrote:
    I watched Obama debate Alan Keyes here in IL when they were running for senate. Obama is a fine debater, although, it doesn't take much to beat Alan Keyes. I have the same feeling for Obama v McCain.



    I was reading an article today that said how, although Obama's performance in the national debates wasn't bad, that he was far far better in the debates for the U.S. Senate. I don't know why; maybe he fares better in debates against one opponent instead of trying to get above the din of ten plus candidates.
  • Rider
    Rider Posts: 129
    Obama has not been a terrific debater when I have seen him. Not bad at all but definitely not great either. I am not sure that McCain is any better though. Biden should absolutely destroy Palin but that could work against him if he goes on the attack at all. Most people dont like to watch women get beaten up.
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  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    Rider wrote:
    Obama has not been a terrific debater when I have seen him. Not bad at all but definitely not great either. I am not sure that McCain is any better though. Biden should absolutely destroy Palin but that could work against him if he goes on the attack at all. Most people dont like to watch women get beaten up.


    Luckily Biden has between now and then to drill that into his head continuously. However, he should not let her get a free pass, either; while it's incredible that a woman is on the ticket, she must be judged on her merit and ability to grasp the issues. Biden shouldn't overdo it, but he shouldn't be hands off either. He just needs to make it overtly clear that he's a better vice presidential candidate without being an asshole about it.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    digster wrote:
    while it's incredible that a woman is on the ticket, she must be judged on her merit

    Excellent idea!! Let's apply that standard to affirmative action policies.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Excellent idea!! Let's apply that standard to affirmative action policies.

    Admission to a college of 15,000 for a minority applicant that is 98% white.

    vs.

    Leader of the free world.

    Obviously and easily comparable, of course.

    However, I agree with you. There should be affirmative action, but it should be based upon poverty, not race. You would achieve practically the same results in terms of demographics (since Americans living below the poverty line are overwhelmingly minorities) and you wouldn't have the ridiculous 'reverse racism' claims.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    digster wrote:
    However, I agree with you. There should be affirmative action, but it should be based upon poverty, not race. You would achieve practically the same results in terms of demographics (since Americans living below the poverty line are overwhelmingly minorities) and you wouldn't have the ridiculous 'reverse racism' claims.


    That's called socialism.

    I also don't believe that reverse racism claims are "ridiculous". I think it's exactly what's going on. Anytime you base something on race, it is indeed racist to people of another race.
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  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That's called socialism.

    I also don't believe that reverse racism claims are "ridiculous". I think it's exactly what's going on. Anytime you base something on race, it is indeed racist to people of another race.

    That is not called socialism. Calling it so is inflammatory. It's certainly progressive and big-government oriented, so criticize it for that. You don't see me calling Bush a Nazi for his tactics, although if you go far enough to the right (at least socially) that's what you get.

    Reverse racism claims are ridiculous because it requires that you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and pretend that everyone in this country has an identical history with identical equality. Everyone can pick themselves up by their own bootstraps because everybody was born with a clean slate. This is quite simply untrue. An entire population of this country was held under bondage for over 400 years, and the freedom of this population occurred only several generations ago. Do you think something like that goes away overnight? Or even over 100 years? It doesn't, especially when we fail to address the underlying problems that still exist (ghettoized neighborhoods, lack of money going to these neighborhoods, etc).

    However, I agree; affirmative action is not a great program because it is a band-aid on a bullet wound. We need to address this inequality and work to avert it, or we will just have people of the same race and income status getting access to the best education, which means they get the best jobs, which mean their children get the best education, and the cycle repeats itself. They have a word for that; it's called aristocracy, and it's a perversion of the so-called American dream.

    However, fine. Don't judge on race. Judge on poverty. But I'm not willing to accept a country where the same families remain in power because they're the only ones with access to the necessary requirements.
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Smellyman wrote:
    Obama will beat McCain like a drum.

    Maybe. Unless the teleprompter breaks. Then Obama says more "ummmms" than a Buddhist monk.
    Biden will run circles around Palin.

    Maybe, but I doubt it. The genius of McCain choosing a woman as VP is that people instictively do not like to see men placing women in distress. Biden is going to have to soften some of his rhetoric and barbs, lest he be seen as bullying the poor, helpless damsel.

    It isn't fair. And it's highly sexist. But it's the truth.

    Choosing Palin as VP pretty much neuters Biden as a debate attack dog.

    I really think the debates will be interesting, although in the end they are usually just reduced to platitude-laden soundbites.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    mca47 wrote:


    Sure, his responses took longer but they were more thought out than McCain's one line and often one word responses.
    I wish everything in life is so black and white that could be summed up in half a second, but unfortunately it isn't.
    God for bid we get someone who thinks rather than just reacts.

    I agree to a point ... but in the Saddleback forum, Obama did a lot of "talk for six minutes, but never answer the damn question." I don't mind a long, thought out response ... as long as it is, actually, you know, a response.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • mca47
    mca47 Posts: 13,342
    cincybearcat wrote:
    That's called socialism.

    No, it's really not.

    I love how people drop the "socialism" bomb so easily (usually right leaning) as I enjoy the left's "nazi" bomb.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    mca47 wrote:
    No, it's really not.

    I love how people drop the "socialism" bomb so easily (usually right leaning) as I enjoy the left's "nazi" bomb.

    That's a bomb? I always thought it was complementary :D
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mca47
    mca47 Posts: 13,342
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    That's a bomb? I always thought it was complementary :D

    What? A socialist or a nazi?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,951
    digster wrote:
    That is not called socialism. Calling it so is inflammatory. It's certainly progressive and big-government oriented, so criticize it for that. You don't see me calling Bush a Nazi for his tactics, although if you go far enough to the right (at least socially) that's what you get.

    Reverse racism claims are ridiculous because it requires that you stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and pretend that everyone in this country has an identical history with identical equality. Everyone can pick themselves up by their own bootstraps because everybody was born with a clean slate. This is quite simply untrue. An entire population of this country was held under bondage for over 400 years, and the freedom of this population occurred only several generations ago. Do you think something like that goes away overnight? Or even over 100 years? It doesn't, especially when we fail to address the underlying problems that still exist (ghettoized neighborhoods, lack of money going to these neighborhoods, etc).

    However, I agree; affirmative action is not a great program because it is a band-aid on a bullet wound. We need to address this inequality and work to avert it, or we will just have people of the same race and income status getting access to the best education, which means they get the best jobs, which mean their children get the best education, and the cycle repeats itself. They have a word for that; it's called aristocracy, and it's a perversion of the so-called American dream.

    However, fine. Don't judge on race. Judge on poverty. But I'm not willing to accept a country where the same families remain in power because they're the only ones with access to the necessary requirements.


    Wow...so socialism = nazi...I'll remember that.
    never thoguht using that term would bring out the dogs. I'll be more careful when I use it. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • edvedderrocks
    edvedderrocks Posts: 1,001
    2) McCain looks like Frankenstein, or at least a hybrid of a man's face mixed with the jowl of a chipmunk -- advantage Obama

    (3) McCain looks like he has a cast on his arm and shoulder the way he cannot raise his arm (from his crash injuries), just looks rather odd -- advantage Obama


    very nice things to say about a man who fought for our freedom. wouldn't even come back unless they released the rest of his men. He survived daily torture and was strong enough to live through it - could you? would you?

    Republican or Democrat - those statements are about ignorance.
    "I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me. Guaranteed."

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  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Obama had trouble answering questions on Meet the Press. The eye contact that is such an important part of his speaking left and he was visibly shaken while searching for answers.

    McCain is a terrible speaker when scripted and could be hurt if he comes off as condescending like Al Gore did in 2000. He should be able to hold his own in these debates though since he is more accustomed to speaking in specifics than Obama.
  • Flannel Shirt
    Flannel Shirt Posts: 1,021
    floyd1975 wrote:
    Obama had trouble answering questions on Meet the Press. The eye contact that is such an important part of his speaking left and he was visibly shaken while searching for answers.

    McCain is a terrible speaker when scripted and could be hurt if he comes off as condescending like Al Gore did in 2000. He should be able to hold his own in these debates though since he is more accustomed to speaking in specifics than Obama.
    Anyone remember Bush during the debates. I spoke better, in the womb.

    I have a feeling Obama will be prepared. McCain as well. When is the first debate?
    All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.

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