Social Security benefits when we retire

farfromglorified

don't gimme no wrote:

Absolutely not. Social responsibility applies to everyone. *But* it's my belief that as this country is becoming more and more split between rich and poor that the financial aspect of social responsibilty is weighing on the rich. I'm not saying that's perfect, I'm not saying it's how it needs to be. I'm saying that's my belief. A couple of weeks ago I may argue this point more, but in light of recent forum closures I'm gonna try to stick to the topic. I'm not here to argue whether or not it's seen as a social responsibility, but rather looking for solutions to what some consider a problem with social security.

Let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that the "problem" with social security is that people wish to take out more than they put in?

Eliot Rosewater

farfromglorified wrote:

Let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that the "problem" with social security is that people wish to take out more than they put in?

I'm not saying there is a problem. But I need to write an essay based on there being a problem. So, with that in mind, I think what you brought up would definitely be problematic. I also think inflation may play a part. Someone puts in a certain amount over their lifetime but when it's time for them to receive benefits, it's not a liveable amount.

farfromglorified

don't gimme no wrote:

I'm not saying there is a problem. But I need to write an essay based on there being a problem. So, with that in mind, I think what you brought up would definitely be problematic. I also think inflation may play a part. Someone puts in a certain amount over their lifetime but when it's time for them to receive benefits, it's not a liveable amount.

Inflation applies to all money whether or not it's held by the government or not. Certainly the returns on Social Security have not outpaced inflation, but this is not a problem somehow unique to social security. Furthermore, if Social Security returns exceeded inflation it would not necessarily solve the financial crisis. The financial crisis extends from a system that believes you may extract more than you put in, which is exactly what I talked about in my previous post.

know1

don't gimme no wrote:

For those of you who believe we won't have benefits when we retire, I'm looking for possible solutions. If anyone can offer their suggestions I'd appreciate it.

Take the money they are holding back now and bury it in a sack in your backyard. That will give you a much greater return then we're currently expecting.

Eliot Rosewater

farfromglorified wrote:

Inflation applies to all money whether or not it's held by the government or not. Certainly the returns on Social Security have not outpaced inflation, but this is not a problem somehow unique to social security. Furthermore, if Social Security returns exceeded inflation it would not necessarily solve the financial crisis. The financial crisis extends from a system that believes you may extract more than you put in, which is exactly what I talked about in my previous post.

I understand what your talking about but what's your suggestion for a solution? A real suggestion for a nation, not individually. Not "invest in your 401k" or "don't count on anything" like some have posted.

farfromglorified

don't gimme no wrote:

I understand what your talking about but what's your suggestion for a solution? A real suggestion for a nation, not individually. Not "invest in your 401k" or "don't count on anything" like some have posted.

My solution is this: disband the system. Eliminate it entirely. Stop stealing money from people with a foolish promise that you'll give it back someday. Stop pretending that you can put a nickel in a piggy bank and that, years later, 500 people can all extract a quarter from that piggy bank just because you want them to be able to.

I'm sorry, but this is a solution for individuals. I don't really think that's a bad thing considering the fact that "nations" do not retire, nor do "nations" require money for interpersonal trade. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that by "nation" you mean either "the poor" or "everyone", so I'll respond here as such:

To retire with money, a man who has not earned any money or has spent the money he did earn has two choices: alms or theft. Both require receiving something from another party. The only difference is that the first is done willingly, the second is done by force. If a "nation" decides that it is just to steal money by force from those who earn it and give it to those who do not, your system is doomed anyway.

monkey spanker

"Oh, btw, how can a factory worker be middle class? Seems like an oxymoron to me!"

please explain. i am midle class, and i work in a factory??

here is my plan.

currently 14% of my earnings go into social security.7 % comes directly out of my pay, and the other 7% comes from my employer. my employer obviously considers this a labor expense. i understand that some people are not as fortunate as me and will never have enough to save on their own. so i would propose to tax my earnings at a rate of 4%. put this money into the social security pot. then, let me opt out of social security and let me invest the other 10% back into my 401K, or even just a savings account at my local bank. working people would be far better off in the future, and we would still be contributing 4% of our earnings to others.

one thing is for sure, its weird to know that there are MANY people out there that would rather rely on the Gov't to fund their retirement..than to prepare for it themselves.

farfromglorified

monkey spanker wrote:

"Oh, btw, how can a factory worker be middle class? Seems like an oxymoron to me!"

please explain. i am midle class, and i work in a factory??

here is my plan.

currently 14% of my earnings go into social security.7 % comes directly out of my pay, and the other 7% comes from my employer. my employer obviously considers this a labor expense. i understand that some people are not as fortunate as me and will never have enough to save on their own. so i would propose to tax my earnings at a rate of 4%. put this money into the social security pot. then, let me opt out of social security and let me invest the other 10% back into my 401K, or even just a savings account at my local bank. working people would be far better off in the future, and we would still be contributing 4% of our earnings to others.

one thing is for sure, its weird to know that there are MANY people out there that would rather rely on the Gov't to fund their retirement..than to prepare for it themselves.

May I assume that you have no problem then if social security benefits must then be cut by approximately 70%?

monkey spanker

farfromglorified wrote:

May I assume that you have no problem then if social security benefits must then be cut by approximately 70%?

why would they have to be cut?? most people would opt out and never receive any benefits.

farfromglorified

monkey spanker wrote:

why would they have to be cut?? most people would opt out and never receive any benefits.

So your solution is to bribe people with their own money??? You think that by telling someone that being able to keep 10% of their 14% would cause them to celebrate and opt out of the system?

decides2dream

i am really hoping it will be. obviously, the problems with the system are well known, and i'd like to think something will be done about it to preserve it for the future. as i will reach retirement age in about 30 years, i just might make it...:p.......but the system absolutely needs assistance/revamping if it is to survive.

monkey spanker

farfromglorified wrote:

So your solution is to bribe people with their own money??? You think that by telling someone that being able to keep 10% of their 14% would cause them to celebrate and opt out of the system?

bribe them with their own money???? its our money to start with. you do the math. take 10% of your gross pay, invest it very conservatively (say 6%) over the course of your working years.......not a tough decision is it.

farfromglorified

monkey spanker wrote:

bribe them with their own money????

Yes. What you're proposing is like someone holding you up and justifying their behavior by suggesting that they only steal half of the money in your wallet.

its our money to start with. you do the math. take 10% of your gross pay, invest it very conservatively (say 6%) over the course of your working years.......not a tough decision is it.

Social Security "guarantees" value for value. The system, at its core, states that I'll receive benefit corresponding to what I invest in it. Therefore, there is no 4% loss. The system you're proposing makes me pay for choice. It requires that I pay 4% in order to keep 10%, despite that fact that the entire 14% is mine. So while it is certainly conceivable that I could make more money by keeping 10%, I could make the utmost by keeping the entire 14%.

The financial crisis of Social Security comes from payouts to people who did not earn the money in the first place. You're extracting more from the system than was invested. What you're proposing does not solve that problem. It could certainly lead less people to extract, but it also severely decreases the investment as well.

Eliot Rosewater

Maybe those in charge can just invest the entire social security fund in oil & insurance companies right before they U.S. plans the next 9/11. That should beef it up a bit.....

1970RR

don't gimme no wrote:

Maybe those in charge can just invest the entire social security fund in oil & insurance companies right before they U.S. plans the next 9/11. That should beef it up a bit.....

Theres nothing to invest. The trust fund consists of a big pile of IOU's from the Federal Government.

momofglynn

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

Start taking the matter into your own hands. That's what I'm doing. Start putting away a little money every month to invest in your retirement. With Bush not getting anywhere on his social security reform and Congress' lack of attention towards the problem, I'm not going to bank on them taking care of me. This is only my little personal approach towards the problem. On a larger scale, I think personal savings accounts are a good idea. The money you earned during your life should be your money when you get older and need it. It's more a matter of how to transition from the old system to a new one and keep people from falling through the cracks.

I work for a company who is the recordkeeper for numerous 401k/pension accounts. What's sad is that most Americans see that they have 50k in their retirement account and they think they can retire since Uncle Sam is going to provide for them. Another note, is that so many people are borrowing against their 401k's or that they are withdrawing at such a high rate that our generation is really going to be screwed.

If I can say anything to anyone out there. When you get your statement in the mail and check it out, look at it, make sure your fund are performing the way you want them to. The days of throwing a dart to pick investments are over. Don't put all your eggs in 1 basket. Use whatever tools available online that your employer and the recordkeeper provide you to make a plan, and actual plan! More than likely the tools available are free to you. No need to spend more money for someone else to tell what to do. NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT YOUR MONEY MORE THAN YOU!!! My manager said something to once that made the most sense; "people spend more time researching about their next used car then they do about their own retirement." How true is that???!!!

But after you review your statement shred it, or better yet opt for online statements so you can save a tree! Forget that you have this money. Increase your contribution by 1%-2% annually, if you can afford to or when you get a raise. Act like this money doesn't exist. And be proud of yourself for saving so much!

monkey spanker

momofglynn wrote:

I work for a company who is the recordkeeper for numerous 401k/pension accounts. What's sad is that most Americans see that they have 50k in their retirement account and they think they can retire since Uncle Sam is going to provide for them. Another note, is that so many people are borrowing against their 401k's or that they are withdrawing at such a high rate that our generation is really going to be screwed.

If I can say anything to anyone out there. When you get your statement in the mail and check it out, look at it, make sure your fund are performing the way you want them to. The days of throwing a dart to pick investments are over. Don't put all your eggs in 1 basket. Use whatever tools available online that your employer and the recordkeeper provide you to make a plan, and actual plan! More than likely the tools available are free to you. No need to spend more money for someone else to tell what to do. NO ONE WILL CARE ABOUT YOUR MONEY MORE THAN YOU!!! My manager said something to once that made the most sense; "people spend more time researching about their next used car then they do about their own retirement." How true is that???!!!

But after you review your statement shred it, or better yet opt for online statements so you can save a tree! Forget that you have this money. Increase your contribution by 1%-2% annually, if you can afford to or when you get a raise. Act like this money doesn't exist. And be proud of yourself for saving so much!

that is great advice that everybody should take. fidelity investments handles my retirement account, their website is very informative. if your company does not offer 401K, or a similiar tax efficient savings plan, you can put up to $3,000 per year into a Roth IRA to save for retirement. if you did that you would retire a multi millionaire.

hardcoar

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba514/

monkey spanker

i have some new info on this. i am 33 years old and starting to think about retirement and investments etc...i met with a financial advisor this week to get the ball rolling on a few things. here is some info he worked up for me. i told him that i was unhappy with 12.4% of my earnings going to soc.sec. which in $$ i will never see. i asked him, what if i was allowed to take 4% of my money and put it in a private account..leaving the other 8.4% to pay for people that choose to stay in the plan. at 4%, when i retire in 30 years my nest egg would be $701,912..my monthly draw on this (without touching the principle) would be $4,673...then upon my death, i could leave $701,912 to my family..how great is that..but instead, i just have to give my money to the gov't to blow.

sponger

I went to the social security office last month because I lost my social security card and needed to get a replacement. The place was completely packed. But, what I found to be most unsettling was that just about everybody in there was speaking a foreign language. It was mostly a bunch of old women speaking a foreign language.

And I heard a statistic the other day which said that an estimated 50% of welfare recipients are fradulently collecting welfare. Somehow, I don't doubt that people have over the years figured out ways to do the minimum in order to collect social security.

So, I think the true root causes of the US social services problems are immigration and abuse. People keep referring to the system as a failure, but who knows how many years its been since it was actually being used the way it was meant to be used.

We have to solve this massive immigration problem that is not only draining our public assistance funds, but is also lowering wages as a result of exploitation by small and large business alike. Like someone mentioned earlier, a big part of the problem is the ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor.