Social Security benefits when we retire

Eliot RosewaterEliot Rosewater Posts: 2,659
edited August 2006 in A Moving Train
Who here thinks that social security benefits will be available when they retire? Most of us are far from retirement so this means 20-30 years from now. Those who don't think they'll be available - What would you do to fix the system?
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Who here thinks that social security benefits will be available when they retire? Most of us are far from retirement so this means 20-30 years from now. Those who don't think they'll be available - What would you do to fix the system?

    Well, it's kind of sad, I got my pay stub right here, hold on...

    I paid $53.11 into the Canadian Pension Plan (CPP) this pay alone.

    Supposing I work until I am 65 and I started working when I was 18.

    I will have paid nearly $60,000 into CPP by the time I retire. It won't be there when I retire. I also paid $22.58 to Employment Insurance and $206.47 in Federal Income Tax.

    To fix it, I would get rid of programs like mother's allowance, disability for lazy people, etc... I'd make natives pay tax of some sort.

    I don't know what you gotta do in the states though. I guess none of this really applies down there.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Who here thinks that social security benefits will be available when they retire? Most of us are far from retirement so this means 20-30 years from now. Those who don't think they'll be available - What would you do to fix the system?



    Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

    In what the BBC calls "highly unusual," a State of the Union Speech was interrupted by a chorus of "No's," booing, and heckles from some of the members of Congress in attendance. This happened immediately after the above Bush lie. As Shields mentioned on the PBS wrap-up, and as Brooks concurred, if adjustments are not made, by 2042, as they have been made before, 3/4 of the funds promised would still be available. The entire system would neither be exhausted nor bankrupt. -- Politex, 02.03.05
  • Commy wrote:
    Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."

    In what the BBC calls "highly unusual," a State of the Union Speech was interrupted by a chorus of "No's," booing, and heckles from some of the members of Congress in attendance. This happened immediately after the above Bush lie. As Shields mentioned on the PBS wrap-up, and as Brooks concurred, if adjustments are not made, by 2042, as they have been made before, 3/4 of the funds promised would still be available. The entire system would neither be exhausted nor bankrupt. -- Politex, 02.03.05
    got a link for that?
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
  • Commy wrote:
    Thanks, what about this PBS wrap-up you mentioned? I just want to see something more credible....Shields and Brooks....didn't she once marry Andre Agassi? No, but really, by chance do you have more information than just that link because it doesn't seem to back up it's claim too well?
  • Start taking the matter into your own hands. That's what I'm doing. Start putting away a little money every month to invest in your retirement. With Bush not getting anywhere on his social security reform and Congress' lack of attention towards the problem, I'm not going to bank on them taking care of me. This is only my little personal approach towards the problem. On a larger scale, I think personal savings accounts are a good idea. The money you earned during your life should be your money when you get older and need it. It's more a matter of how to transition from the old system to a new one and keep people from falling through the cracks.
  • Start taking the matter into your own hands. That's what I'm doing. Start putting away a little money every month to invest in your retirement. With Bush not getting anywhere on his social security reform and Congress' lack of attention towards the problem, I'm not going to bank on them taking care of me. This is only my little personal approach towards the problem. On a larger scale, I think personal savings accounts are a good idea. The money you earned during your life should be your money when you get older and need it. It's more a matter of how to transition from the old system to a new one and keep people from falling through the cracks.
    I agree with you, but I don't think social security is a hopeless cause. What are some suggestions to fix it?
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Thanks, what about this PBS wrap-up you mentioned? I just want to see something more credible....Shields and Brooks....didn't she once marry Andre Agassi? No, but really, by chance do you have more information than just that link because it doesn't seem to back up it's claim too well?



    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_12/005312.php
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I see a lot of grey areas in a lot of topics, but this Social Security deal is the biggest scam ever. Anyone who believes it shouldn't be modified or even completely done away with is not thinking straight.

    At this point, it is NOT Social Security. It's just another tax - i.e. money that is taken from us that we'll never see.

    And yes, I'm not counting on one penny of it when I retire. If I get anything, it will be a bonus.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    know1 wrote:
    I see a lot of grey areas in a lot of topics, but this Social Security deal is the biggest scam ever. Anyone who believes it shouldn't be modified or even completely done away with is not thinking straight.

    At this point, it is NOT Social Security. It's just another tax - i.e. money that is taken from us that we'll never see.

    And yes, I'm not counting on one penny of it when I retire. If I get anything, it will be a bonus.
    Funny that. I'll have to let my grandparents know that the money they've been receiving isn't in fact Social Security. That the money they paid into the system was all stolen from them, and that these checks must be coming from somewhere else.

    Social Security has been modified before, and if necessary can be modified again. However, it is not the massive failure those on the right like to make it out to be. You will be getting a few pennies from it, know, don't worry.
  • i am a middle class factory worker that pays about $73 a week into social security. and its not going to be there when i retire, if it is..i will get a NEGATIVE return on my investment. i am, of course, saving for my own retirement so its not a huge deal. i know that i am sipmly paying a $73 a week tax for peple that won't save. people need to quit relying on the gov't for everything.
  • i am a middle class factory worker that pays about $73 a week into social security. and its not going to be there when i retire, if it is..i will get a NEGATIVE return on my investment. i am, of course, saving for my own retirement so its not a huge deal. i know that i am sipmly paying a $73 a week tax for peple that won't save. people need to quit relying on the gov't for everything.


    No, were paying a tax to a goverment that blows it all on war and tax cuts for those who do not need it.

    Oh, btw, how can a factory worker be middle class? Seems like an oxymoron to me!

    And, too, if people could rely on goverment to stand up to big business who take the blue collar jobs to countries and their EPZ zones, if it would tax those bastard multinationals like they should, then maybe everyone would have a job at a decent, living wage, and those people that do, would have no need to go on welfare.
    The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
  • For those of you who believe we won't have benefits when we retire, I'm looking for possible solutions. If anyone can offer their suggestions I'd appreciate it.
  • For those of you who believe we won't have benefits when we retire, I'm looking for possible solutions. If anyone can offer their suggestions I'd appreciate it.

    Here's a possible solution: stop stealing the money in the first place.

    There are tens of thousands of my dollars sitting in a government trust fund somewhere earning 2% interest until someone else decides to steal it. If I had been permitted to keep that money, I certainly would have no one to blame but myself if I "don't have benefits when I retire".
  • I recently received a nice paper from the Quebec govt. showing me how much money i currently have for my retirement through govt. social security programs, i loved it, i might retire at 45 :) (only i won't see that money before 65 i think)...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,513
    For those of you who believe we won't have benefits when we retire, I'm looking for possible solutions. If anyone can offer their suggestions I'd appreciate it.

    To the best of your ability, max-out your 401K...that will save you money on current year taxes, and hoepfully, your employer will match a portion.

    Also, a Roth IRA is a great bargain......the distributions your receive when you retire will be tax free.

    If you do have a 401K, etc, take an active role in managing your investements.
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 535
    i'm in my mid 30's and haven't counted on social security being around for me since i got out of high school. 401k, man. find a company that matches 100% up to a certain percentage you put in, then put in that percentage.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • I appreciate all who have posted on this thread. However, I'm writing an essay on this and was hoping for a bit more input. I agree that one shouldn't count on social security benefits. I do have a 401k and I invest as much as possible into it every single payday. I manage the investments myself and hope I'm making sound decisions.

    But...there are people who will need social security or something similar. Inevitably certain people need financial benefits, especially when we live in such a rich/poor society where trends suggest it's only getting richer and poorer. I find some sort of social security program imperative to maintain some sort of social responsibility.

    So....I guess this isn't an individual thing, like everyone has been thinking. I'm thinking larger than just me or you, but the nation as a whole. Something is needed. Not everyone has a 401k. Some people will need help when they're older. Can anyone please offer their opinion on how to make this a possibility? Even if it's just sticking with what we've got....I dunno. I know that I respect a lot of you guys and I know that many of you are incredibly intelligent, that's why I'm asking this question here. I'm glad the train is up and running so we can talk about this some more.
  • I appreciate all who have posted on this thread. However, I'm writing an essay on this and was hoping for a bit more input. I agree that one shouldn't count on social security benefits. I do have a 401k and I invest as much as possible into it every single payday. I manage the investments myself and hope I'm making sound decisions.

    But...there are people who will need social security or something similar. Inevitably certain people need financial benefits, especially when we live in such a rich/poor society where trends suggest it's only getting richer and poorer. I find some sort of social security program imperative to maintain some sort of social responsibility.

    So....I guess this isn't an individual thing, like everyone has been thinking. I'm thinking larger than just me or you, but the nation as a whole. Something is needed. Not everyone has a 401k. Some people will need help when they're older. Can anyone please offer their opinion on how to make this a possibility? Even if it's just sticking with what we've got....I dunno. I know that I respect a lot of you guys and I know that many of you are incredibly intelligent, that's why I'm asking this question here. I'm glad the train is up and running so we can talk about this some more.

    Your entire message here seems to imply that just because "some people" will "need financial benefits" it becomes the responsibility of other people to provide those benefits. You appear to refer to this as "some sort of social responsibility".

    Let me ask you this: what about the "social responsibility" of those in need? Theoretically speaking, the person you're demanding provide the financial benefit has already provided much to society if his/her money was earned honestly by trading with other members of society for mutual benefit. However, I see no evidence that your person in need has provided any comparable benefit to society. Or does "social responsibility" only apply to someone who is rich?
  • Your entire message here seems to imply that just because "some people" will "need financial benefits" it becomes the responsibility of other people to provide those benefits. You appear to refer to this as "some sort of social responsibility".

    Let me ask you this: what about the "social responsibility" of those in need? Theoretically speaking, the person you're demanding provide the financial benefit has already provided much to society if his/her money was earned honestly by trading with other members of society for mutual benefit. However, I see no evidence that your person in need has provided any comparable benefit to society. Or does "social responsibility" only apply to someone who is rich?
    Absolutely not. Social responsibility applies to everyone. *But* it's my belief that as this country is becoming more and more split between rich and poor that the financial aspect of social responsibilty is weighing on the rich. I'm not saying that's perfect, I'm not saying it's how it needs to be. I'm saying that's my belief. A couple of weeks ago I may argue this point more, but in light of recent forum closures I'm gonna try to stick to the topic. I'm not here to argue whether or not it's seen as a social responsibility, but rather looking for solutions to what some consider a problem with social security.
  • Absolutely not. Social responsibility applies to everyone. *But* it's my belief that as this country is becoming more and more split between rich and poor that the financial aspect of social responsibilty is weighing on the rich. I'm not saying that's perfect, I'm not saying it's how it needs to be. I'm saying that's my belief. A couple of weeks ago I may argue this point more, but in light of recent forum closures I'm gonna try to stick to the topic. I'm not here to argue whether or not it's seen as a social responsibility, but rather looking for solutions to what some consider a problem with social security.

    Let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that the "problem" with social security is that people wish to take out more than they put in?
  • Let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that the "problem" with social security is that people wish to take out more than they put in?
    I'm not saying there is a problem. But I need to write an essay based on there being a problem. So, with that in mind, I think what you brought up would definitely be problematic. I also think inflation may play a part. Someone puts in a certain amount over their lifetime but when it's time for them to receive benefits, it's not a liveable amount.
  • I'm not saying there is a problem. But I need to write an essay based on there being a problem. So, with that in mind, I think what you brought up would definitely be problematic. I also think inflation may play a part. Someone puts in a certain amount over their lifetime but when it's time for them to receive benefits, it's not a liveable amount.

    Inflation applies to all money whether or not it's held by the government or not. Certainly the returns on Social Security have not outpaced inflation, but this is not a problem somehow unique to social security. Furthermore, if Social Security returns exceeded inflation it would not necessarily solve the financial crisis. The financial crisis extends from a system that believes you may extract more than you put in, which is exactly what I talked about in my previous post.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    For those of you who believe we won't have benefits when we retire, I'm looking for possible solutions. If anyone can offer their suggestions I'd appreciate it.

    Take the money they are holding back now and bury it in a sack in your backyard. That will give you a much greater return then we're currently expecting.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Inflation applies to all money whether or not it's held by the government or not. Certainly the returns on Social Security have not outpaced inflation, but this is not a problem somehow unique to social security. Furthermore, if Social Security returns exceeded inflation it would not necessarily solve the financial crisis. The financial crisis extends from a system that believes you may extract more than you put in, which is exactly what I talked about in my previous post.
    I understand what your talking about but what's your suggestion for a solution? A real suggestion for a nation, not individually. Not "invest in your 401k" or "don't count on anything" like some have posted.
  • I understand what your talking about but what's your suggestion for a solution? A real suggestion for a nation, not individually. Not "invest in your 401k" or "don't count on anything" like some have posted.

    My solution is this: disband the system. Eliminate it entirely. Stop stealing money from people with a foolish promise that you'll give it back someday. Stop pretending that you can put a nickel in a piggy bank and that, years later, 500 people can all extract a quarter from that piggy bank just because you want them to be able to.

    I'm sorry, but this is a solution for individuals. I don't really think that's a bad thing considering the fact that "nations" do not retire, nor do "nations" require money for interpersonal trade. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that by "nation" you mean either "the poor" or "everyone", so I'll respond here as such:

    To retire with money, a man who has not earned any money or has spent the money he did earn has two choices: alms or theft. Both require receiving something from another party. The only difference is that the first is done willingly, the second is done by force. If a "nation" decides that it is just to steal money by force from those who earn it and give it to those who do not, your system is doomed anyway.
  • "Oh, btw, how can a factory worker be middle class? Seems like an oxymoron to me!"

    please explain. i am midle class, and i work in a factory??

    here is my plan.

    currently 14% of my earnings go into social security.7 % comes directly out of my pay, and the other 7% comes from my employer. my employer obviously considers this a labor expense. i understand that some people are not as fortunate as me and will never have enough to save on their own. so i would propose to tax my earnings at a rate of 4%. put this money into the social security pot. then, let me opt out of social security and let me invest the other 10% back into my 401K, or even just a savings account at my local bank. working people would be far better off in the future, and we would still be contributing 4% of our earnings to others.

    one thing is for sure, its weird to know that there are MANY people out there that would rather rely on the Gov't to fund their retirement..than to prepare for it themselves.
  • "Oh, btw, how can a factory worker be middle class? Seems like an oxymoron to me!"

    please explain. i am midle class, and i work in a factory??

    here is my plan.

    currently 14% of my earnings go into social security.7 % comes directly out of my pay, and the other 7% comes from my employer. my employer obviously considers this a labor expense. i understand that some people are not as fortunate as me and will never have enough to save on their own. so i would propose to tax my earnings at a rate of 4%. put this money into the social security pot. then, let me opt out of social security and let me invest the other 10% back into my 401K, or even just a savings account at my local bank. working people would be far better off in the future, and we would still be contributing 4% of our earnings to others.

    one thing is for sure, its weird to know that there are MANY people out there that would rather rely on the Gov't to fund their retirement..than to prepare for it themselves.

    May I assume that you have no problem then if social security benefits must then be cut by approximately 70%?
  • May I assume that you have no problem then if social security benefits must then be cut by approximately 70%?

    why would they have to be cut?? most people would opt out and never receive any benefits.
  • why would they have to be cut?? most people would opt out and never receive any benefits.

    So your solution is to bribe people with their own money??? You think that by telling someone that being able to keep 10% of their 14% would cause them to celebrate and opt out of the system?
Sign In or Register to comment.