5 years later and still no alternative fuel option

Jeanwah

onelongsong wrote:

the governments job is to inform the public.... that's why i asked: what more do you want. throw me a few ideas and i'll be happy to pass them on to the senate.

How about signing the Kyoto Treaty for starters. Yeah, great starting point. Stop trying to drill for oil in the Arctic, enforce corps to follow strict rules for emission standards.

And you, who supposedly says that you're evading paying taxes and living under a false identity, are hardly someone to be passing anything onto the Senate. In fact, your viewpoint doesn't mean much to me.

onelongsong

Jeanwah wrote:

How about signing the Kyoto Treaty for starters. Yeah, great starting point. Stop trying to drill for oil in the Arctic, enforce corps to follow strict rules for emission standards.

And you, who supposedly says that you're evading paying taxes and living under a false identity, are hardly someone to be passing anything onto the Senate. In fact, your viewpoint doesn't mean much to me.

then why respond? just ignore me. it seems to me that drilling for oil is private enterprise. if the people conserved and didn't need more oil; there would be no need to find more.
show me where i said i evaded taxes. i don't pay taxes because i use every legal loophole so i don't have to. my corporations pay more in taxes in a month than 95% of the population earns in a year. so you're sucking off my teat. when i left public office i retained my contacts and have have a direct line to lawmakers so i will pass on any reasonable ideas.

onelongsong

macgyver06 wrote:

awesome post. i think the trend of this 'lack of self responsibility', and 'dumb and happy', and 'life wasted' might be fading away..at least it should. Maybe we could reward those who choose not to drive to 'McDOnald's ' and choose not to water there stupid lawns' a reward system. somehow

and you're right. if we're running out of a resource you're not suppose to use it up faster. if you don't want the government in your back pocket telling you how to live; then live responsably. it's YOUR world. treat it that way.

macgyver06

onelongsong wrote:

then why respond? just ignore me. it seems to me that drilling for oil is private enterprise. if the people conserved and didn't need more oil; there would be no need to find more.
show me where i said i evaded taxes. i don't pay taxes because i use every legal loophole so i don't have to. my corporations pay more in taxes in a month than 95% of the population earns in a year. so you're sucking off my teat. when i left public office i retained my contacts and have have a direct line to lawmakers so i will pass on any reasonable ideas.

shocking. leagal loophole. sounds like your a legal asshole

onelongsong

macgyver06 wrote:

shocking. leagal loophole. sounds like your a legal asshole

just well educated.

Jeanwah

onelongsong wrote:

show me where i said i evaded taxes.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=215198&page=4
"i can understand not finding someone in vast wilderness. i live in a small town in the mountians and the government has been looking for me for 9 years now. as long as i don't pay taxes they never will find me. becoming invisable is easy. "

And to Quote Cosmo...which you didn't respond to...

P.S.
Sorry, but you willing brought it up...You are admitting that you evade paying taxes and that every other American that pays his fair share is carrying your sorry ass... AND... you have stolen the Identiy of another individual in order to commit fraud to other people who come into contact with you?
You don't pay taxes... you don't vote... because you are not who you say you are.... so, if you do vote, you are doing so in a knowingly fraudulent manner. If you DON'T pay taxes and vote... what gives you the privilege to criticise a government you do not participate in?

...when i left public office i retained my contacts and have have a direct line to lawmakers so i will pass on any reasonable ideas.

You didn't say anything about the suggestion of signing the KYOTO TREATY!
And new emission standards for corporations. I can think of more, give me time...:)

onelongsong

Jeanwah wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=215198&page=4
"i can understand not finding someone in vast wilderness. i live in a small town in the mountians and the government has been looking for me for 9 years now. as long as i don't pay taxes they never will find me. becoming invisable is easy. "

And to Quote Cosmo...which you didn't respond to...




You didn't say anything about the suggestion of signing the KYOTO TREATY!
And new emission standards for corporations. I can think of more, give me time...:)

clearly you need an english lesson. i don't pay taxes because i'm not required to by law. my corporations pay taxes but i personally don't pay taxes and don't file returns. the government isn't looking for me because of taxes. basically; they are not looking for me; they don't know who they're looking for. thus my point that a person can become invisible even if that person is in plain site.

Jeanwah

onelongsong wrote:

clearly you need an english lesson. i don't pay taxes because i'm not required to by law. my corporations pay taxes but i personally don't pay taxes and don't file returns. the government isn't looking for me because of taxes. basically; they are not looking for me; they don't know who they're looking for. thus my point that a person can become invisible even if that person is in plain site.

Obviously there's more going on than you're telling us. The gov't is after you, you've changed your identity, won't pay taxes, live in the middle of nowhere using solar power, a former politician of some kind, and corp owner...Yep, A big-time criminal we have here. You can't hide forever, you know! Anyone from the IRS on this board? Look this one up!

onelongsong

Jeanwah wrote:

Obviously there's more going on than you're telling us. The gov't is after you, you've changed your identity, won't pay taxes, live in the middle of nowhere using solar power, a former politician of some kind, and corp owner...Yep, A big-time criminal we have here. You can't hide forever, you know! Anyone from the IRS on this board? Look this one up!

wow; you can really build a story without having any facts.

Jeanwah

onelongsong wrote:

wow; you can really build a story without having any facts.

It's all that you already wrote here, buddy. Between this thread and the other 5 years later thread, you've said it all.

onelongsong

Jeanwah wrote:

It's all that you already wrote here, buddy. Between this thread and the other 5 years later thread, you've said it all.

now this should show how conspiracy theories get started. i'm public enemy #1 now. let me bring you back down to earth. i was accused of something i didn't do. i hired a team of lawyers to get the evidence to clear my name and i don't take personal income so i don't have to pay taxes. i now have the evidence and the feds will be hearing from my lawyers soon. i choose invisability instead of wrongful imprisonment. i walk around freely because the perpetrator is not me; he's dead in a grave in poland.
so see how you twist things around. you got little bits of fact and mushroomed it into the crime of the century.
back to my only point here: it's easy to become invisable if you want to.

acroyear

What fuel options were there during the eight (8) years Bubba Clinton was in orfice?

Kat

Just a thought I had but it seems to me that our government has been derelict in protecting our country from problems stemming from lack of fuel/energy sources since the late 70s. There was a fuel crisis then which resulted in shortages, lines, high prices for goods, etc. I believe it is negligence on the part of our government for not having encouraged development of alternate fuels for the last 35 years...to protect our way of life.

Love,
Kat

evenkat

This is Jimmy Carter's speech on 4/18/1977

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html

Primary Sources: The President's Proposed Energy Policy

Jimmy Carter delivered this televised speech on April 18, 1977.

Tonight I want to have an unpleasant talk with you about a problem unprecedented in our history. With the exception of preventing war, this is the greatest challenge our country will face during our lifetimes. The energy crisis has not yet overwhelmed us, but it will if we do not act quickly.

It is a problem we will not solve in the next few years, and it is likely to get progressively worse through the rest of this century.

We must not be selfish or timid if we hope to have a decent world for our children and grandchildren.

We simply must balance our demand for energy with our rapidly shrinking resources. By acting now, we can control our future instead of letting the future control us.

Two days from now, I will present my energy proposals to the Congress. Its members will be my partners and they have already given me a great deal of valuable advice. Many of these proposals will be unpopular. Some will cause you to put up with inconveniences and to make sacrifices.

The most important thing about these proposals is that the alternative may be a national catastrophe. Further delay can affect our strength and our power as a nation.

Our decision about energy will test the character of the American people and the ability of the President and the Congress to govern. This difficult effort will be the "moral equivalent of war" -- except that we will be uniting our efforts to build and not destroy.

I know that some of you may doubt that we face real energy shortages. The 1973 gasoline lines are gone, and our homes are warm again. But our energy problem is worse tonight than it was in 1973 or a few weeks ago in the dead of winter. It is worse because more waste has occurred, and more time has passed by without our planning for the future. And it will get worse every day until we act.

The oil and natural gas we rely on for 75 percent of our energy are running out. In spite of increased effort, domestic production has been dropping steadily at about six percent a year. Imports have doubled in the last five years. Our nation's independence of economic and political action is becoming increasingly constrained. Unless profound changes are made to lower oil consumption, we now believe that early in the 1980s the world will be demanding more oil that it can produce.

The world now uses about 60 million barrels of oil a day and demand increases each year about 5 percent. This means that just to stay even we need the production of a new Texas every year, an Alaskan North Slope every nine months, or a new Saudi Arabia every three years. Obviously, this cannot continue.

We must look back in history to understand our energy problem. Twice in the last several hundred years there has been a transition in the way people use energy.

The first was about 200 years ago, away from wood -- which had provided about 90 percent of all fuel -- to coal, which was more efficient. This change became the basis of the Industrial Revolution.

The second change took place in this century, with the growing use of oil and natural gas. They were more convenient and cheaper than coal, and the supply seemed to be almost without limit. They made possible the age of automobile and airplane travel. Nearly everyone who is alive today grew up during this age and we have never known anything different.

Because we are now running out of gas and oil, we must prepare quickly for a third change, to strict conservation and to the use of coal and permanent renewable energy sources, like solar power.

The world has not prepared for the future. During the 1950s, people used twice as much oil as during the 1940s. During the 1960s, we used twice as much as during the 1950s. And in each of those decades, more oil was consumed than in all of mankind's previous history.

World consumption of oil is still going up. If it were possible to keep it rising during the 1970s and 1980s by 5 percent a year as it has in the past, we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade.

I know that many of you have suspected that some supplies of oil and gas are being withheld. You may be right, but suspicions about oil companies cannot change the fact that we are running out of petroleum.

All of us have heard about the large oil fields on Alaska's North Slope. In a few years when the North Slope is producing fully, its total output will be just about equal to two years' increase in our nation's energy demand.

Each new inventory of world oil reserves has been more disturbing than the last. World oil production can probably keep going up for another six or eight years. But some time in the 1980s it can't go up much more. Demand will overtake production. We have no choice about that.

But we do have a choice about how we will spend the next few years. Each American uses the energy equivalent of 60 barrels of oil per person each year. Ours is the most wasteful nation on earth. We waste more energy than we import. With about the same standard of living, we use twice as much energy per person as do other countries like Germany, Japan and Sweden.

One choice is to continue doing what we have been doing before. We can drift along for a few more years.

Our consumption of oil would keep going up every year. Our cars would continue to be too large and inefficient. Three-quarters of them would continue to carry only one person -- the driver -- while our public transportation system continues to decline. We can delay insulating our houses, and they will continue to lose about 50 percent of their heat in waste.

We can continue using scarce oil and natural to generate electricity, and continue wasting two-thirds of their fuel value in the process.

If we do not act, then by 1985 we will be using 33 percent more energy than we do today.

We can't substantially increase our domestic production, so we would need to import twice as much oil as we do now. Supplies will be uncertain. The cost will keep going up. Six years ago, we paid $3.7 billion for imported oil. Last year we spent $37 billion -- nearly ten times as much -- and this year we may spend over $45 billion.

Unless we act, we will spend more than $550 billion for imported oil by 1985 -- more than $2,500 a year for every man, woman, and child in America. Along with that money we will continue losing American jobs and becoming increasingly vulnerable to supply interruptions.

Now we have a choice. But if we wait, we will live in fear of embargoes. We could endanger our freedom as a sovereign nation to act in foreign affairs. Within ten years we would not be able to import enough oil -- from any country, at any acceptable price.

If we wait, and do not act, then our factories will not be able to keep our people on the job with reduced supplies of fuel. Too few of our utilities will have switched to coal, our most abundant energy source.

We will not be ready to keep our transportation system running with smaller, more efficient cars and a better network of buses, trains and public transportation.

We will feel mounting pressure to plunder the environment. We will have a crash program to build more nuclear plants, strip-mine and burn more coal, and drill more offshore wells than we will need if we begin to conserve now. Inflation will soar, production will go down, people will lose their jobs. Intense competition will build up among nations and among the different regions within our own country.

If we fail to act soon, we will face an economic, social and political crisis that will threaten our free institutions.

But we still have another choice. We can begin to prepare right now. We can decide to act while there is time.

That is the concept of the energy policy we will present on Wednesday. Our national energy plan is based on ten fundamental principles.

The first principle is that we can have an effective and comprehensive energy policy only if the government takes responsibility for it and if the people understand the seriousness of the challenge and are willing to make sacrifices.

The second principle is that healthy economic growth must continue. Only by saving energy can we maintain our standard of living and keep our people at work. An effective conservation program will create hundreds of thousands of new jobs.

The third principle is that we must protect the environment. Our energy problems have the same cause as our environmental problems -- wasteful use of resources. Conservation helps us solve both at once.

The fourth principle is that we must reduce our vulnerability to potentially devastating embargoes. We can protect ourselves from uncertain supplies by reducing our demand for oil, making the most of our abundant resources such as coal, and developing a strategic petroleum reserve.

The fifth principle is that we must be fair. Our solutions must ask equal sacrifices from every region, every class of people, every interest group. Industry will have to do its part to conserve, just as the consumers will. The energy producers deserve fair treatment, but we will not let the oil companies profiteer.

The sixth principle, and the cornerstone of our policy, is to reduce the demand through conservation. Our emphasis on conservation is a clear difference between this plan and others which merely encouraged crash production efforts. Conservation is the quickest, cheapest, most practical source of energy. Conservation is the only way we can buy a barrel of oil for a few dollars. It costs about $13 to waste it.

The seventh principle is that prices should generally reflect the true replacement costs of energy. We are only cheating ourselves if we make energy artificially cheap and use more than we can really afford.

The eighth principle is that government policies must be predictable and certain. Both consumers and producers need policies they can count on so they can plan ahead. This is one reason I am working with the Congress to create a new Department of Energy, to replace more than 50 different agencies that now have some control over energy.

The ninth principle is that we must conserve the fuels that are scarcest and make the most of those that are more plentiful. We can't continue to use oil and gas for 75 percent of our consumption when they make up seven percent of our domestic reserves. We need to shift to plentiful coal while taking care to protect the environment, and to apply stricter safety standards to nuclear energy.

The tenth principle is that we must start now to develop the new, unconventional sources of energy we will rely on in the next century.

These ten principles have guided the development of the policy I would describe to you and the Congress on Wednesday.

Our energy plan will also include a number of specific goals, to measure our progress toward a stable energy system.

These are the goals we set for 1985:

--Reduce the annual growth rate in our energy demand to less than two percent.

--Reduce gasoline consumption by ten percent below its current level.

--Cut in half the portion of United States oil which is imported, from a potential level of 16 million barrels to six million barrels a day.

--Establish a strategic petroleum reserve of one billion barrels, more than six months' supply.

--Increase our coal production by about two thirds to more than 1 billion tons a year.

--Insulate 90 percent of American homes and all new buildings.

--Use solar energy in more than two and one-half million houses.

We will monitor our progress toward these goals year by year. Our plan will call for stricter conservation measures if we fall behind.

I cant tell you that these measures will be easy, nor will they be popular. But I think most of you realize that a policy which does not ask for changes or sacrifices would not be an effective policy.

This plan is essential to protect our jobs, our environment, our standard of living, and our future.

Whether this plan truly makes a difference will be decided not here in Washington, but in every town and every factory, in every home an don every highway and every farm.

I believe this can be a positive challenge. There is something especially American in the kinds of changes we have to make. We have been proud, through our history of being efficient people.

We have been proud of our leadership in the world. Now we have a chance again to give the world a positive example.

And we have been proud of our vision of the future. We have always wanted to give our children and grandchildren a world richer in possibilities than we've had. They are the ones we must provide for now. They are the ones who will suffer most if we don't act.

I've given you some of the principles of the plan.

I am sure each of you will find something you don't like about the specifics of our proposal. It will demand that we make sacrifices and changes in our lives. To some degree, the sacrifices will be painful -- but so is any meaningful sacrifice. It will lead to some higher costs, and to some greater inconveniences for everyone.

But the sacrifices will be gradual, realistic and necessary. Above all, they will be fair. No one will gain an unfair advantage through this plan. No one will be asked to bear an unfair burden. We will monitor the accuracy of data from the oil and natural gas companies, so that we will know their true production, supplies, reserves, and profits.

The citizens who insist on driving large, unnecessarily powerful cars must expect to pay more for that luxury.

We can be sure that all the special interest groups in the country will attack the part of this plan that affects them directly. They will say that sacrifice is fine, as long as other people do it, but that their sacrifice is unreasonable, or unfair, or harmful to the country. If they succeed, then the burden on the ordinary citizen, who is not organized into an interest group, would be crushing.

There should be only one test for this program: whether it will help our country.

Other generation of Americans have faced and mastered great challenges. I have faith that meeting this challenge will make our own lives even richer. If you will join me so that we can work together with patriotism and courage, we will again prove that our great nation can lead the world into an age of peace, independence and freedom.

Jimmy Carter, "The President's Proposed Energy Policy." 18 April 1977. Vital Speeches of the Day, Vol. XXXXIII, No. 14, May 1, 1977, pp. 418-420.

onelongsong

Kat wrote:

Just a thought I had but it seems to me that our government has been derelict in protecting our country from problems stemming from lack of fuel/energy sources since the late 70s. There was a fuel crisis then which resulted in shortages, lines, high prices for goods, etc. I believe it is negligence on the part of our government for not having encouraged development of alternate fuels for the last 35 years...to protect our way of life.

Love,
Kat

with all due respect; we have photovoltaic; ethanol; bio-desiel; much improved wind generators; dual fuel; and other new sources. the government has been and still is offering tax incentives and rebates for businesses to develope alternative sources and for citizens who wish to use alternative energy. i'm 100% solar and the government paid for most of it. the power company also gave me $2.00 USD per watt upon completion.
the problem lies with the consumers that refuse to use this technology. those who do not take any responsability in protecting mother earth. it's easy to point fingers but we are responsable for our own actions. the governments action will be rationing. high taxes on second cars; gas taxes so high most won't be able to afford it. things like that. when it happens everyone will be crying about it but let's face it; we've been told over and over and nobody listens. when you're allotted 20 gallons of gas per month and electricity 4 hours a day you'll all remember these words.

Kat

onelongsong wrote:

with all due respect; we have photovoltaic; ethanol; bio-desiel; much improved wind generators; dual fuel; and other new sources. the government has been and still is offering tax incentives and rebates for businesses to develope alternative sources and for citizens who wish to use alternative energy. i'm 100% solar and the government paid for most of it. the power company also gave me $2.00 USD per watt upon completion.
the problem lies with the consumers that refuse to use this technology. those who do not take any responsability in protecting mother earth. it's easy to point fingers but we are responsable for our own actions. the governments action will be rationing. high taxes on second cars; gas taxes so high most won't be able to afford it. things like that. when it happens everyone will be crying about it but let's face it; we've been told over and over and nobody listens. when you're allotted 20 gallons of gas per month and electricity 4 hours a day you'll all remember these words.

When I can go to the car dealership and can drive a fuel-efficient/alternate fuel vehicle right off the lot, then I will consider the country on the right track and getting things done for America. This goes for the availability of homes with alternative energy too. These are issues involving our security and there has not been a push to get these things done from our government, the people we elect to protect us, to lead us. I do not believe it can all be left up to market forces. People are finally now learning and being educated about the importance but it could have been going on for 35 years with leadership. We need competent, forward-thinking leaders....my humble opinion.

Love,
Kat
P.S. Thank you evenkat for finding that Carter speech. I wonder if anyone will ever listen?

jlew24asu

Kat wrote:

When I can go to the car dealership and can drive a fuel-efficient/alternate fuel vehicle right off the lot, then I will consider the country on the right track and getting things done for America. This goes for the availability of homes with alternative energy too. These are issues involving our security and there has not been a push to get these things done from our government, the people we elect to protect us, to lead us. I do not believe it can all be left up to market forces. People are finally now learning and being educated about the importance but it could have been going on for 35 years with leadership. We need competent, forward-thinking leaders....my humble opinion.

Love,
Kat
P.S. Thank you evenkat for finding that Carter speech. I wonder if anyone will ever listen?

I agree. If i can buy one right now I would. but then again I dont need a car, so I dont have one at all.

One thing that decomcrats do so much better then republicans is embrace technology. I definately support forward-thinking people

farfromglorified

onelongsong wrote:

the problem lies with the consumers that refuse to use this technology. those who do not take any responsability in protecting mother earth. it's easy to point fingers but we are responsable for our own actions. the governments action will be rationing. high taxes on second cars; gas taxes so high most won't be able to afford it. things like that. when it happens everyone will be crying about it but let's face it; we've been told over and over and nobody listens.

Agreed!

We don't need "our leaders" to solve this problem. We only need them to get out of the way. Imagine if the trillions of dollars collected by these people every year were back in the hands of the people who are working on technologies like fuel cells and solar energy rather than in the hands of the people who can only pay lip service to those technologies.

onelongsong

Kat wrote:

When I can go to the car dealership and can drive a fuel-efficient/alternate fuel vehicle right off the lot, then I will consider the country on the right track and getting things done for America. This goes for the availability of homes with alternative energy too. These are issues involving our security and there has not been a push to get these things done from our government, the people we elect to protect us, to lead us. I do not believe it can all be left up to market forces. People are finally now learning and being educated about the importance but it could have been going on for 35 years with leadership. We need competent, forward-thinking leaders....my humble opinion.

Love,
Kat
P.S. Thank you evenkat for finding that Carter speech. I wonder if anyone will ever listen?

i agree; but i also worked on PVs in the late 60's and early 70's. you can walk into a chevy dealer and buy dual fuel vehicles today. all set and ready to roll. anyone buying a house can have it set up for a PV system turn key. we do it here all the time. that's what i did. and my neighbors. in 1981 i installed a wind turbine at my then home and sold excess back to the power company. none of this is new. that's whats so frustrating. i'm using 30 year old technology to produce free electricity while so many cry about their electric bills.
i thought the jimmy carter speech was great. how many people said "if i only listened then?"

SPALMA

Kat wrote:

When I can go to the car dealership and can drive a fuel-efficient/alternate fuel vehicle right off the lot, then I will consider the country on the right track and getting things done for America. This goes for the availability of homes with alternative energy too. These are issues involving our security and there has not been a push to get these things done from our government, the people we elect to protect us, to lead us. I do not believe it can all be left up to market forces. People are finally now learning and being educated about the importance but it could have been going on for 35 years with leadership. We need competent, forward-thinking leaders....my humble opinion.

Love,
Kat
P.S. Thank you evenkat for finding that Carter speech. I wonder if anyone will ever listen?

You are seeing a lot more of that in Europe... many hybrid cars, turbine electric power generation, hotels with power based on occupancy (you have to plug your key or credit card in to have lights, tv, air, etc.), conservation of disposables (batteries and plastic items mostly) and more efficient home construction. It is amazing.