Bottom line....if you are at war, and you have the enemy, you do what is necessary to get the answer you want.
Here comes the far left...........
Said in a girlie voice.."You should not torcher them like that. You are mean, you should try to reason with them"
Come on......where are you?
War is War. Its not fair or nice, if you wanna win you gotta get nasty. Bottom line.
War is war but even in war there are rules of engagement. It has nothing to do with reason or being mean, it has everything to do with being a human being. Should for the sake of safety lower ourselves to level in which terrorists operate. Should we toss out our principles and values to simply buy some temporary safety. This country was founded on certain principles and ideas, bar a few like slavery. It is what makes our country great. It is what sets us apart from places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, and Myanmar. It is the foundation of this country. By partaking in torture we stray away from what makes this country great and at that point what is there to defend.
IT has been stated time and time again, by experts, that information obtained through torture is unreliable. So should we sell our souls, our very principles for nothing. I could care less about some bastard whose sole intent is to inflict pains, death, and suffering on innocent citizens through terrorism, but I do care about the principles of this country and I am not willing to allow our government sacrifice everything this country was founded on for a false moment of security.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
at first i was with Acoustic Guy, but then other people have reminded me about the fact that in torture prisoners will say anything to stop it happening to them. and i forgot about that
so yes, torture is not a way to win. one idea came to my mind, how about putting them to sleep and getting answers like that. i can't remember proper word for this....but basically send them of to sleep and whilst they are sleeping ask them questions starting with non-suspicious ones, like their childhood and them progress onto important info.
but another thing i thought about a quite a while ago, is that war will never end untill there'll be no people left who answer back to violence with violence.
and also no people who are just mad, and like to bring pain to individuals.
and those kind of people will always be with us. no matter how many time we kill them, there will always be new people. difficulty with this kind of war is that it's not the government we are fighting with, but individuals. you kill one group of individuals, and once they are gone and you think it's all over...there comes another group. that's why i think was in Iraq will be never ending one.
i haven't got the solution, i know killing won't help and i know being nice to them won't work either.
Bottom line....if you are at war, and you have the enemy, you do what is necessary to get the answer you want.
Here comes the far left...........
Said in a girlie voice.."You should not torcher them like that. You are mean, you should try to reason with them"
Come on......where are you?
War is War. Its not fair or nice, if you wanna win you gotta get nasty. Bottom line.
...
Well... first off... we are the United States of America.. not the Soviet Union. We are not supposed to act like the Soviets. We are supposed to be the good guys. And last time I checked... the good guys didn't torture... the bad guys did.
Next... if I clamp a pair of jumper cable to your nuts and run 110 volts throught it until you give me the names of terrorists... you are going to come up with names... even though you don't know any terrorists.
And the best way to win this type of 'War'... is to win over the people by providing them the opportunity to better their situation. If your father or brother was detained and tortured for infomation he did not possess... are you telling me you would accept the torturers as friends? Wouldn't their torture turn you against them? Not all of the people and their friends and families swept up by a giant net are terrorists... until they get out.
How do you win a war, when your actions create more enemies bent on killing you?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Next... if I clamp a pair of jumper cable to your nuts and run 110 volts throught it until you give me the names of terrorists... you are going to come up with names... even though you don't know any terrorists.
Exactly what I have always thought. Plus if someone does know the name of a terrorist, what is going to stop him from giving you a bunch of fake names first that you have no other way of confirming?
so yes, torture is not a way to win. one idea came to my mind, how about putting them to sleep and getting answers like that. i can't remember proper word for this....but basically send them of to sleep and whilst they are sleeping ask them questions starting with non-suspicious ones, like their childhood and them progress onto important info.
Are you talking about hypnosis? From what I understand about that it only works if the subject really wants to be hypnotized. Drugging people up only works some of the time, and the same with that you don't really have any way to confirm the intel you are getting.
Are you talking about hypnosis? From what I understand about that it only works if the subject really wants to be hypnotized. Drugging people up only works some of the time, and the same with that you don't really have any way to confirm the intel you are getting.
yes i was, and yes i've also heard it works when people want to be hypnotized, but i think it's a subject scientists can find out about and explore a bit more.
Bottom line....if you are at war, and you have the enemy, you do what is necessary to get the answer you want.
Here comes the far left...........
Said in a girlie voice.."You should not torcher them like that. You are mean, you should try to reason with them"
Come on......where are you?
War is War. Its not fair or nice, if you wanna win you gotta get nasty. Bottom line.
If you do not respect the basic human rights of another person you are a criminal and a terrorist yourself. I'm not even going to bother with the 'it makes you no better than them arugument'. It makes you a criminal and a terrorist thats all. If first world countries do not afford people basic human rights how do you expect developing and third world nations to do likewise.
Here comes the far left...........
Said in a girlie voice.."You should not torcher them like that. You are mean, you should try to reason with them"
Come on......where are you?
Torture. T-O-R-T-U-R-E.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
0
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Bottom line....if you are at war, and you have the enemy, you do what is necessary to get the answer you want.
Here comes the far left...........
Said in a girlie voice.."You should not torcher them like that. You are mean, you should try to reason with them"
Come on......where are you?
War is War. Its not fair or nice, if you wanna win you gotta get nasty. Bottom line.
Again this is an occupation what's happening in Iraq NOT a any war, however since you refer to being nasty maybe that's why you use the word "torcher" instead of torture. Maybe your method of action is burn them all up, seems like a demented thought process from the outset.
What do you think??
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I understand both sides of the arguement...
One the one hand, you need to acquire information because of the covert actions of individuals, not a uniformed military, are in play here. Information that will lead you to leadership and command chain, their whereabouts and their plans.
On the other hand, you need to be able to rely on that information. Acting on false information is useless at best, catastrophic at worst.
...
The trick is relying on viable, correct information. Which isn't easy. Torturing can lead to both good and bad information. How do you know which is which? Does the tortured have information? Will he give it up? Will it be good, bad or both?
We need information... but, only the good stuff. Torturing people does not insure this. It only insures you will get something out of it. Problem is, it could be a terrorist... or it could be someone he has a grudge with.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
What the hell is the US fighting for if they are no better than Saddam Hussein? What have almost 4000 American troops AND OVER 1 MILLION IRAQI CIVILIANS died for?
The US is no better than Saddam, and there is no way to justify a barbaric practice like torture givin the details of the invasion.
What the hell is the US fighting for if they are no better than Saddam Hussein? What have almost 4000 American troops AND OVER 1 MILLION IRAQI CIVILIANS died for?
The US is no better than Saddam, and there is no way to justify a barbaric practice like torture givin the details of the invasion.
...
Exactly.
The moral of the story is: Don't become the Evil you set out to destroy.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The entire Bush administration is going to be etched into the tablets of time as shit stains in US political history.
Must feel like a million bucks...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
War is war but even in war there are rules of engagement. It has nothing to do with reason or being mean, it has everything to do with being a human being. Should for the sake of safety lower ourselves to level in which terrorists operate. Should we toss out our principles and values to simply buy some temporary safety. This country was founded on certain principles and ideas, bar a few like slavery. It is what makes our country great. It is what sets us apart from places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, and Myanmar. It is the foundation of this country. By partaking in torture we stray away from what makes this country great and at that point what is there to defend.
IT has been stated time and time again, by experts, that information obtained through torture is unreliable. So should we sell our souls, our very principles for nothing. I could care less about some bastard whose sole intent is to inflict pains, death, and suffering on innocent citizens through terrorism, but I do care about the principles of this country and I am not willing to allow our government sacrifice everything this country was founded on for a false moment of security.
at first i was with Acoustic Guy, but then other people have reminded me about the fact that in torture prisoners will say anything to stop it happening to them. and i forgot about that
so yes, torture is not a way to win. one idea came to my mind, how about putting them to sleep and getting answers like that. i can't remember proper word for this....but basically send them of to sleep and whilst they are sleeping ask them questions starting with non-suspicious ones, like their childhood and them progress onto important info.
but another thing i thought about a quite a while ago, is that war will never end untill there'll be no people left who answer back to violence with violence.
and also no people who are just mad, and like to bring pain to individuals.
and those kind of people will always be with us. no matter how many time we kill them, there will always be new people. difficulty with this kind of war is that it's not the government we are fighting with, but individuals. you kill one group of individuals, and once they are gone and you think it's all over...there comes another group. that's why i think was in Iraq will be never ending one.
i haven't got the solution, i know killing won't help and i know being nice to them won't work either.
Well... first off... we are the United States of America.. not the Soviet Union. We are not supposed to act like the Soviets. We are supposed to be the good guys. And last time I checked... the good guys didn't torture... the bad guys did.
Next... if I clamp a pair of jumper cable to your nuts and run 110 volts throught it until you give me the names of terrorists... you are going to come up with names... even though you don't know any terrorists.
And the best way to win this type of 'War'... is to win over the people by providing them the opportunity to better their situation. If your father or brother was detained and tortured for infomation he did not possess... are you telling me you would accept the torturers as friends? Wouldn't their torture turn you against them? Not all of the people and their friends and families swept up by a giant net are terrorists... until they get out.
How do you win a war, when your actions create more enemies bent on killing you?
Hail, Hail!!!
Exactly what I have always thought. Plus if someone does know the name of a terrorist, what is going to stop him from giving you a bunch of fake names first that you have no other way of confirming?
Are you talking about hypnosis? From what I understand about that it only works if the subject really wants to be hypnotized. Drugging people up only works some of the time, and the same with that you don't really have any way to confirm the intel you are getting.
yes i was, and yes i've also heard it works when people want to be hypnotized, but i think it's a subject scientists can find out about and explore a bit more.
If you do not respect the basic human rights of another person you are a criminal and a terrorist yourself. I'm not even going to bother with the 'it makes you no better than them arugument'. It makes you a criminal and a terrorist thats all. If first world countries do not afford people basic human rights how do you expect developing and third world nations to do likewise.
Torture. T-O-R-T-U-R-E.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Again this is an occupation what's happening in Iraq NOT a any war, however since you refer to being nasty maybe that's why you use the word "torcher" instead of torture. Maybe your method of action is burn them all up, seems like a demented thought process from the outset.
What do you think??
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Nucular.
One the one hand, you need to acquire information because of the covert actions of individuals, not a uniformed military, are in play here. Information that will lead you to leadership and command chain, their whereabouts and their plans.
On the other hand, you need to be able to rely on that information. Acting on false information is useless at best, catastrophic at worst.
...
The trick is relying on viable, correct information. Which isn't easy. Torturing can lead to both good and bad information. How do you know which is which? Does the tortured have information? Will he give it up? Will it be good, bad or both?
We need information... but, only the good stuff. Torturing people does not insure this. It only insures you will get something out of it. Problem is, it could be a terrorist... or it could be someone he has a grudge with.
Hail, Hail!!!
Haha!
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
What the hell is the US fighting for if they are no better than Saddam Hussein? What have almost 4000 American troops AND OVER 1 MILLION IRAQI CIVILIANS died for?
The US is no better than Saddam, and there is no way to justify a barbaric practice like torture givin the details of the invasion.
Exactly.
The moral of the story is: Don't become the Evil you set out to destroy.
Hail, Hail!!!
Must feel like a million bucks...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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