any us military here?

RavennaSeattle1911

dont soldiers ever post on message boards?

or ex soldiers?

what do you think of bushs war?

Byrnzie

SapperSkunk is a vet.

gimmesometruth27

whatever happened to USsoldier who used to post on here in 2004/05?

he always had great points to make, being on the ground in iraq and all.

sapperskunk

WOO HOO, Sappers lead the way!

Yeah I'm a Vet, it's been quite a while though since the ground war and initial occupation, the only reason I know it's been that long is due to the 30 pounds that I decided to put on now that I'm a civilian. I whole heartedly support the war in Iraq. BUT! I am a biased opinion compared to your average troop.

My mother is Armenian and was born and raised in Baghdad. I still have family there also, who I got to see a couple of times when they came to my forward operating base. I support the war for personal reasons, yeah there was no WMD, but I still believe in bringing democracy to that place.

My mom used to tell me horror stories about that place under the Baathists. There ARE a lot of problems there, but don't watch the actions of a small percentage of people or the medias complete lies let you be fooled.

Heres a friend of mine that I worked with in Iraq, I recently found out he was killed in Afghanistan. There's some pictures I posted that I took on our R&R trip when we redeployed. Before anybody says he died for nothing, in Khadimiya, NW Baghdad, Chuck shot some guy in the ass who he stumbled upon raping a little boy. The guy lived, he must have missed the artery and amazingly ran off, who knows.

Anyway heres the link.
http://afghanistan.pigstye.net/article.php?story=2006110614315122

norm

Thank you sapperskunk. And thank you to all soldiers. You are doing something brave and noble. I don't believe any soldier has died for nothing. But I am against the war in Iraq for the simple fact that I don't anything good coming from it. I believe the US should have the best, most well equipped armed forces possible. I think we should have it to defend ourselves from people who wish to do us harm. (al queda anyone) But this using our military to secure oil reserves just isn't right. Yes, there were horrific things that took place under Sadaam's regime. But those types of thing are happening in other countries as well.

I'm rambling a bit. Try to remember sapperskunk, I'm against this war because I don't want you or any other soldier to end up like your friend Chuck.

beachdweller

I'm a vet (12 yrs army), the war was a stupid move, Afghanistan needs more attention and support, and with no leverage or plan to handle Iran's growing nuclear possibilities, let alone the administration fired all the experts on that region and replaced them with their partisan ideologues, we are going to be in Iraq for at least a decade, or we are going to leave quickly and a regional Shia vs Sunni war will ensue.

funny thing is, because of the administrations incompetence in Iraq, it's hurting them now with the current plan...yes, it's basically the same as last years surge in Baghdad, but they are fourcing the Iraq government to step up, no limitations on what the military can do, and ensuring they provide their military to do the work, with one U S army brigade support each Iraqi Division, this may actually have a chance if the Iraqi military holds up their part of the plan. Unfortunately, no one is listening here in the U S, I hate Bush, have before he was elected, with absolutely no positive qualities, but Rove marketing won the day twice and we are stuck with him for a few more years, blah...anyway, I think this plan should be given a chance, but Congress should watchover it very closely.

qtegirl

I'm a vet too. 5 yrs in the Army, 1994-1999.

I don't agree with this war or any war. I've turned into a pacifist (yeah, I admit it dammit!

brain of c

i'm a military brat.

i love bush.

not the president.

bootlegger10

brain of c wrote:

i'm a military brat.

i love bush.

not the president.

Pretty much every American is a military brat. They just don't want to admit it.

WindNoSail

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

whatever happened to USsoldier who used to post on here in 2004/05?

he always had great points to make, being on the ground in iraq and all.

Send a PM?

Thanks always to the vets. Glad there are some here.

Stereotype

but I still believe in bringing democracy to that place.

Bringing democracy..how can you believe that!? America is great in bringing democracy and "helping" other..but what really happens is...the country gets poorer and the regime that they enstablish is such that fits US economy and corporations, and sometimes the elites in that country, not the people. (BTW the majority of the regimes that US of A is trying to change now was originaly put there by the USA itself.) So it's basicly like that -more democracy is more poverty and unjustice. Tap yourself on the shoulder, you are quite old and still don't have a clue. Democracy you worship so much has nothing to do with real democracy, the ideal, and has even less to do with freedom.
You've got Chomsky, read it...

The Illinoisemakers

Stereotype wrote:

Bringing democracy..how can you believe that!? America is great in bringing democracy and "helping" other..but what really happens is...the country gets poorer and the regime that they enstablish is such that fits US economy and corporations, and sometimes the elites in that country, not the people. (BTW the majority of the regimes that US of A is trying to change now was originaly put there by the USA itself.) So it's basicly like that -more democracy is more poverty and unjustice. Tap yourself on the shoulder, you are quite old and still don't have a clue. Democracy you worship so much has nothing to do with real democracy, the ideal, and has even less to do with freedom.
You've got Chomsky, read it...

Since you are feeling sorry for yourself that no one replies to your posts, I'll cheer you up. Why don't you tell us what real democracy is. See I think giving people a choice is a big part of it, and as much as I'm sure that pains you, that happened in Iraq. Now you can spew off a bunch of crap about it being a puppet government, but the people of Iraq were the ones who voted. Not W or Cheney. In a war that has had many horrible days, the day that I saw all those people on tv holding up their ink stained finger after voting is a memory that I won't soon forget.

Stereotype

See I think giving people a choice is a big part of it, and as much as I'm sure that pains you, that happened in Iraq.

What a weird post...I'm not sure you've understand me at all. Maybe it's my grammar but I fear it's not.

ONE I don't know what do you think of when you say giving people a choice, but there isn't much choice anywhere and democracy is not about choices for some time now..some choices yes but not real choices. Putting the word choice and Iraq in the same sentence it's absurd and it shows that you are not very knowledgable of what is going on and how "democracy" works.
TWO I never said that war is ok, I am just trying to tell you that what you think of as ideals aren't what they're supposed to be.
THREE I needn't to do you your homework and lecture you about what democracy is.
What the bleep should I write..should I quote people, should I explain the whole history?It doesn't really matter what is written about democracy. Focus on what is really happening. Yeah, democracy literally means rule or government by, or power of, the people. Logically and historically implicit in this is the notion of majority rule. Representative democracy is a form of democracy in which the people govern indirectly, through elected representatives, rather than directly governing themselves. Democracy has complex demands, which certainly include voting and respect for election results, but it also requires the protection of liberties and freedoms, respect for legal entitlements, and the guaranteeing of free discussion and uncensored distribution of news and fair comment.

Now isn't that just beautiful?I'm sure you're clapping...MY point.. all above is not so great in practice...I would like that people start to realise that and stop doing things in the name of democracy and freedom.
You should help yourself see (I am not mocking you) and read more (I recommend Noam Chomsky- is your american author). Don't be a puppet of the media. I can see you are totally unaware of what USA is doing there and why...you are confused..I'm sure you'll stay the same and shout out how democracy and opportunities is what America represnts etc.they are doing mental piracy on you, I know...it's ok..I parly understand..these days it sucks to be an american. But maybe is your duty as a human being capable of intelectual thinking that you find out what is going on and for what reasons. If you think it's OK, it's Ok then. Nothning I can do about that but to respect your opinion. But If you see things aren't all right and in a world where corporations are in charge, USA and some others are doing what they please, some wouldn't sign the Kyoto protocol because it's bad for economy and people are dying of curable diseases and famine every day, while you are eating a fancy dinner..i'm sure you'll see it's not so great...
Looking forward to your replies after you do some Chomsky reading.

jeffbr

Stereotype wrote:

..these days it sucks to be an american.

Don't know why you think that. Maybe you're the "media puppet". I enjoy being an american these days. I enjoy my higher standard of living. I enjoy my earning potential. I enjoy pursuing my dreams.

Stereotype wrote:

some wouldn't sign the Kyoto protocol because it's bad for economy and people are dying of curable diseases and famine every day, while you are eating a fancy dinner..i'm sure you'll see it's not so great...

LOL. And there you go with Kyoto in yet another thread unrelated to Kyoto. Like a one trick pony. So predictable.

Stereotype

I enjoy my higher standard of living. I enjoy my earning potential. I enjoy pursuing my dreams.

I'm sure you do. Great for you. I'm just saying that what your foreign policy is doing is preventing these same things for others. While your spending potencial is so great and while you have for example cheaper oil some are starving and getting killed.
What I meant with the sentence that it sucks to be an american these days is that the "hate" for USA is growing. I wouldn't wanna be in your position when something breakes - that's all. And it will break...The whole situation is like a temping bomb. I would be so satisfied If proven wrong.

Call me what you like (you're just focusing on insignificant things).. but I brought up Kyoto as an example of how ignorant a "democracy" can be.

I never meant to upset nobody. It's my opinion. You don't need to justify yourself.

gue_barium

Stereotype wrote:

I'm sure you do. Great for you. I'm just saying that what your foreign policy is doing is preventing these same things for others. While your spending potencial is so great and while you have for example cheaper oil some are starving and getting killed.
What I meant with the sentence that it sucks to be an american these days is that the "hate" for USA is growing. I wouldn't wanna be in your position when something breakes - that's all. And it will break...The whole situation is like a temping bomb. I would be so satisfied If proven wrong.

Call me what you like (you're just focusing on insignificant things).. but I brought up Kyoto as an example of how ignorant a "democracy" can be.

I never meant to upset nobody. It's my opinion. You don't need to justify yourself.

I think there will be a major financial collapse in the USA sooner than later. It'll make the so-called Depression Era of the 30's look like fun.

sapperskunk

Stereotype wrote:

I'm sure you do. Great for you. I'm just saying that what your foreign policy is doing is preventing these same things for others. While your spending potencial is so great and while you have for example cheaper oil some are starving and getting killed.
What I meant with the sentence that it sucks to be an american these days is that the "hate" for USA is growing. I wouldn't wanna be in your position when something breakes - that's all. And it will break...The whole situation is like a temping bomb. I would be so satisfied If proven wrong.

Call me what you like (you're just focusing on insignificant things).. but I brought up Kyoto as an example of how ignorant a "democracy" can be.

I never meant to upset nobody. It's my opinion. You don't need to justify yourself.

Hey Stereotype, do you remember what this thread was about? Your just regurgitating the same fuckin argument heard on other threads. You now have the opportunity to ask an Iraqi-American and a Vet from Iraq 03 to 04 anything pertaining to that occupation. Don't waste it, cause I'm sure there aren't too many vets running around your sleepy little village.

The Illinoisemakers

Stereotype wrote:

What a weird post...I'm not sure you've understand me at all. Maybe it's my grammar but I fear it's not.

ONE I don't know what do you think of when you say giving people a choice, but there isn't much choice anywhere and democracy is not about choices for some time now..some choices yes but not real choices. Putting the word choice and Iraq in the same sentence it's absurd and it shows that you are not very knowledgable of what is going on and how "democracy" works.
TWO I never said that war is ok, I am just trying to tell you that what you think of as ideals aren't what they're supposed to be.
THREE I needn't to do you your homework and lecture you about what democracy is.
What the bleep should I write..should I quote people, should I explain the whole history?It doesn't really matter what is written about democracy. Focus on what is really happening. Yeah, democracy literally means rule or government by, or power of, the people. Logically and historically implicit in this is the notion of majority rule. Representative democracy is a form of democracy in which the people govern indirectly, through elected representatives, rather than directly governing themselves. Democracy has complex demands, which certainly include voting and respect for election results, but it also requires the protection of liberties and freedoms, respect for legal entitlements, and the guaranteeing of free discussion and uncensored distribution of news and fair comment.

Now isn't that just beautiful?I'm sure you're clapping...MY point.. all above is not so great in practice...I would like that people start to realise that and stop doing things in the name of democracy and freedom.
You should help yourself see (I am not mocking you) and read more (I recommend Noam Chomsky- is your american author). Don't be a puppet of the media. I can see you are totally unaware of what USA is doing there and why...you are confused..I'm sure you'll stay the same and shout out how democracy and opportunities is what America represnts etc.they are doing mental piracy on you, I know...it's ok..I parly understand..these days it sucks to be an american. But maybe is your duty as a human being capable of intelectual thinking that you find out what is going on and for what reasons. If you think it's OK, it's Ok then. Nothning I can do about that but to respect your opinion. But If you see things aren't all right and in a world where corporations are in charge, USA and some others are doing what they please, some wouldn't sign the Kyoto protocol because it's bad for economy and people are dying of curable diseases and famine every day, while you are eating a fancy dinner..i'm sure you'll see it's not so great...
Looking forward to your replies after you do some Chomsky reading.

Wow, and you thought my post was strange. I don't even know where to begin with this mess. A few things I find interesting in this:

Democracy is not about choices??? Or I'm sorry, 'real choices'. Talk about absurd. It is my understanding that it takes time for a democracy to grow. It didn't just spring up over night in America, and its not going to happen in Iraq. The elections in Iraq was a baby step towards democracy. The next step in my opinion is to get radical muslims/terrorists/jihadists under control. I would agree that it is hard to have personal freedoms, when your always concerned with being blow to pieces, but some extremist. Again it takes time, and with 20,000 more troops and a better trained and armed Iraqi army and police force that might be possible, hopefully sooner rather then later.

Your second point? what does that mean, "I'm trying to tell you that what you think of as ideals are not what they're supposed to be." Are you serious? Aren't everyone's ideals different? Doesn't that kind of fall under the idea of personel freedoms? The right to decide what is and what isn't important in your life? Maybe you need to slow down when you are typing, and reread, because that point is really strange.

Your third point. I never asked you to 'do my homework'. I have my own ideas about democracy, and they are definitely different then yours. But when you throw around this term, 'real democracy' it would be nice to have a definition.

Really your entire post is just odd. "These days it sucks to be an American." Not really. You should come and have a visit, next time Pearl Jam is touring you should really try to come out. I really couldn't be happier to be an American. Are there some things I wish my gov't would do different, you bet, but since we are a 'democracy' I have hope that the people can help to create change when the gov't is wrong, or oversteps its bounds. I've never been to Slovenia, and honestly it is low on my list of places to visit. How is your gov't setup? Are you a "real democracy"? I think I now know why you said that no one ever replies to your posts. I'm starting to wish I hadn't either.

Stereotype

Please come down.

Democracy is not about choices??? Or I'm sorry, 'real choices'.

Yes. It's not. Was meant to be but things got wrong.

The next step in my opinion is to get radical muslims/terrorists/jihadists under control.

See that is the problem, the more you force them under your control the more out of control will their behaviour be. Of course you can oppose but ...you'll see. Unfortunatly many more will die because of that theory.

Are you serious? Aren't everyone's ideals different?

Yes I am and no they're not. There might be slight variation but in essence they are very similar all around the world. Peace for example.

But when you throw around this term, 'real democracy' it would be nice to have a definition.

I thought it was clear from my sarcasm ..but I guess not. Real democracy is a direct democracy, fair democracy. What you and also my village (to use your term) have is a representitive democracy where the people govern indirectly, through elected representatives, rather than directly governing themselves. As you can see today these representatives do not work in well being of everybody but they have their privilidges like corporative prosperity...(World Wide Suicide is about that)

I've never been to Slovenia, and honestly it is low on my list of places to visit. How is your gov't setup? Are you a "real democracy"?

It is not ideal but better than yours thanks for the interest. I wouldn't say it is less corupted but we are not messing up the whole world (wars, ecology) so at least we are more responsible. I won't defend my goverment if it gets shittier, though..I would do something about it. Activism does work. Slowly and with many falls..but it does..
BTW If you ever change your mind..you're welcome in Slovenia. The nature is beautiful. Well I guess you'll never know...

jlew24asu

gue_barium wrote:

I think there will be a major financial collapse in the USA sooner than later. It'll make the so-called Depression Era of the 30's look like fun.

why? care to back that up?

this should be good

ThumbingMyWay32

gue_barium wrote:

I think there will be a major financial collapse in the USA sooner than later. It'll make the so-called Depression Era of the 30's look like fun.

lmao You realize you do have to show your Nostradamus U. name card before you make a statement like that.