REAL ID Act

RavennaSeattle1911

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act

they say its bad

how so?

onelongsong

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act

they say its bad

how so?

who says it's bad? arizona is an autherized presence state. you must prove you're in this country legally to obtain work or any government services including drivers licenses or state IDs.
i think it's a great idea.

blackredyellow

I don't really have a problem with it as far as a privacy or a "big brother" sort of thing. The only thing that I have a problem with is from the unfunded mandate part of it. The federal government is forcing the states to comply, and it will cost billions to implement.

It also bothers me because I can't see what it will do to help terrorism or illegal immigration. I think it's a huge waste of money.

Cosmo

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act

they say its bad

how so?

...
The Mark of The Beast.

onelongsong

blackredyellow wrote:

I don't really have a problem with it as far as a privacy or a "big brother" sort of thing. The only thing that I have a problem with is from the unfunded mandate part of it. The federal government is forcing the states to comply, and it will cost billions to implement.

It also bothers me because I can't see what it will do to help terrorism or illegal immigration. I think it's a huge waste of money.

again i direct you to arizona. it didn't cost any more to verify a persons credentials. the fact is; it saved money by elliminating tens of thousands of applicants because they could not prove they were here legally. it didn't cause a big brother enviornment; but eliminated it. by being able to prove you're here legally; you get the express lane just by having that little card. if you don't have it; your identity is investigated and that lets government into your personal lives.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

again i direct you to arizona. it didn't cost any more to verify a persons credentials. the fact is; it saved money by elliminating tens of thousands of applicants because they could not prove they were here legally. it didn't cause a big brother enviornment; but eliminated it. by being able to prove you're here legally; you get the express lane just by having that little card. if you don't have it; your identity is investigated and that lets government into your personal lives.

...
It sounds good on the surface... just as anty sales pitch sound good... I mean, people bought Yugos, didn't they?
But, it also seems to lean towards the creepy side, too. Like the way the Nazis issued travel orders and official papers. Without these documents, you were subjected to harsh prejudice and denied participation in the Third Reich.
And I'm not a Doomsday preacher... but, isn't this what the Bible speaks of in reference to the 'Mark Of The Beast'? Without this official card, you will be denied access to participating the American Dream... you will be persecuted and kicked out... but, kicked out to where? Not all illegals come from Mexico.
And who is the one that maintains this database on all of us? The Government? How much trust to you place in your government? who watches the watcher.... and who watches them?
Paranoid? You may think so. I just don't have the same blind trust in our government officials as you do.

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
It sounds good on the surface... just as anty sales pitch sound good... I mean, people bought Yugos, didn't they?
But, it also seems to lean towards the creepy side, too. Like the way the Nazis issued travel orders and official papers. Without these documents, you were subjected to harsh prejudice and denied participation in the Third Reich.
And I'm not a Doomsday preacher... but, isn't this what the Bible speaks of in reference to the 'Mark Of The Beast'? Without this official card, you will be denied access to participating the American Dream... you will be persecuted and kicked out... but, kicked out to where? Not all illegals come from Mexico.
And who is the one that maintains this database on all of us? The Government? How much trust to you place in your government? who watches the watcher.... and who watches them?
Paranoid? You may think so. I just don't have the same blind trust in our government officials as you do.

i'd call it more like "super paranoid". here's the reasons:
!) you must provide documentation freviously issued by the government. so the government already has this documentation you fear. ie: birth certificate; social security card; passport; and other GOVERNMENT ISSUED information.
2) you are not allowed to participate in the "american dream" unless you are here legally.
3) the people watch the watcher. thus the second ammendment. it's purpose is the final check and balance.
4) you give the government much more information when you file taxes and that data based is "kept" by the government.

are you paranoid against mexicans? i don't recall anyone bringing up mexico or mexicans. only those in this country illegally.

onelongsong

onelongsong wrote:

i'd call it more like "super paranoid". here's the reasons:
!) you must provide documentation freviously issued by the government. so the government already has this documentation you fear. ie: birth certificate; social security card; passport; and other GOVERNMENT ISSUED information.
2) you are not allowed to participate in the "american dream" unless you are here legally.
3) the people watch the watcher. thus the second ammendment. it's purpose is the final check and balance.
4) you give the government much more information when you file taxes and that data based is "kept" by the government.

are you paranoid against mexicans? i don't recall anyone bringing up mexico or mexicans. only those in this country illegally.

i should also add that the nazis first disarmed the prople so they couldn't watch the watcher and stop what was going on. when the government fears your guns; that's the time to be paranoid.

1970RR

onelongsong wrote:

i should also add that the nazis first disarmed the prople so they couldn't watch the watcher and stop what was going on. when the government fears your guns; that's the time to be paranoid.

What do you think they do with all those gun registrations? Shred them?
They compile all gun owners into a central database for easy retrieval at a later date.

onelongsong

1970RR wrote:

What do you think they do with all those gun registrations? Shred them?
They compile all gun owners into a central database for easy retrieval at a later date.

you're talking about what the nazis and countries like england did. guns are registered; not gun owners. some states require a card for possible gun owners but those are few. if you don't want to fill out the government form; simply buy from a private seller or gun show. i'm registered as a conceiled weapons carrier. those records are kept by the fbi in their database. but gun owners are NOT registered. it's unconstitutional per the supreme court.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

i'd call it more like "super paranoid". here's the reasons:
!) you must provide documentation freviously issued by the government. so the government already has this documentation you fear. ie: birth certificate; social security card; passport; and other GOVERNMENT ISSUED information.
2) you are not allowed to participate in the "american dream" unless you are here legally.
3) the people watch the watcher. thus the second ammendment. it's purpose is the final check and balance.
4) you give the government much more information when you file taxes and that data based is "kept" by the government.

are you paranoid against mexicans? i don't recall anyone bringing up mexico or mexicans. only those in this country illegally.

...
Where do I give the Government my medical information now?
The REAL ID card will also contain Medical Information. It is sold to us as a life saving tool... where a paramedic can scan your card to see if you are on medications or have any other health issues... but, why have that information available to the sales person at The GAP?
Plus... the guns thing... please, don't make me laugh. Koresh had a ton of guns and look where it got him.

onelongsong wrote:

are you paranoid against mexicans? i don't recall anyone bringing up mexico or mexicans. only those in this country illegally.

...
You're the one going after the illegals, not me. And what do you do with the ones you catch who are here illegally? Whaer do you put them?

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Where do I give the Government my medical information now?
The REAL ID card will also contain Medical Information. It is sold to us as a life saving tool... where a paramedic can scan your card to see if you are on medications or have any other health issues... but, why have that information available to the sales person at The GAP?
Plus... the guns thing... please, don't make me laugh. Koresh had a ton of guns and look where it got him.


...
You're the one going after the illegals, not me. And what do you do with the ones you catch who are here illegally? Whaer do you put them?

when you have a medical condition; most carry a medic alert tag. it only makes sense.
i have more guns than the average gun shop and thousands of rounds of ammunition. what's your point? 1 person cannot keep the government in check. but 2 million can.

we deport them.

Collin

onelongsong wrote:

1 person cannot keep the government in check. but 2 million can.

If the army is on the side of the government, I'd say you can't keep them in check. And there's more to it than pure violencem, the government can screw you in many ways.

onelongsong

Collin wrote:

If the army is on the side of the government, I'd say you can't keep them in check. And there's more to it than pure violencem, the government can screw you in many ways.

if it came to 2 million people revolting against the government; the event that spurred the revolt would also effect the military and the troups would back the people.
where i live; the government can't touch us. world events have no effect on our daily lives and chances are; they never will.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

if it came to 2 million people revolting against the government; the event that spurred the revolt would also effect the military and the troups would back the people.
where i live; the government can't touch us. world events have no effect on our daily lives and chances are; they never will.

...
If you live in your own little world where the government cannot touch you (and you are unaffected by world events)... why do you even care?
And I don't know where you stand... do you trust the Government and want them to have a database on all of us... or do you NOT trust the government and stockpile more guns than the average gun shop and thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo to fend off... who?
And I'm guessing that a revolt of 2 million in a country of 300 million is going to, more than likely, end in the crushing of the 2 million. Why? Because in the rest of the world, outside of where you live, 298 million beats 2 million in every case. 298 million represents 'The people'... 2 million would be called 'insurgents'.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

when you have a medical condition; most carry a medic alert tag. it only makes sense.
i have more guns than the average gun shop and thousands of rounds of ammunition. what's your point? 1 person cannot keep the government in check. but 2 million can.

we deport them.

...
Medical tages are for heart conditions and critical issues. I don't wear a medical tag.... why should my medical records be available to anyone with a card swiper?
...
And as for 'deport them'... deport them to WHERE? What is they are El Salvadorian or Iranian and that say they are Mexican? Ship them off to Mexico?

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Medical tages are for heart conditions and critical issues. I don't wear a medical tag.... why should my medical records be available to anyone with a card swiper?
...
And as for 'deport them'... deport them to WHERE? What is they are El Salvadorian or Iranian and that say they are Mexican? Ship them off to Mexico?

do you really think your medical records would fit on a card? mine wouldn't fit on several cds. it's only information that would be needed for EMT. as for the dude at the gap; when was the last time you paid for pants with your drivers license?

if they say their mexican i'd ship them to mexico. let mexico sort it out.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

do you really think your medical records would fit on a card? mine wouldn't fit on several cds. it's only information that would be needed for EMT. as for the dude at the gap; when was the last time you paid for pants with your drivers license?

if they say their mexican i'd ship them to mexico. let mexico sort it out.

...
It accesses a database (or a distributed database system). You know about databases, right?
How often do you pay with a credit card? Oh, yeah... you don't use credit cards in your little bunker, do you? Well, isn't one of the key arguements for a REAL ID card to to prevent people without them from opening bank accounts, securing loans, getting employment, making purchases... participating in OUR society? If they cannot buy or sell... they will go home... isn't that the idea?
....
And I love that... ship them off to Mexico, just because they say they are from Mexico. I'm sorry, but that has to be one of the most moronic comments in the history of moronic comments.
...
Besides... you aren't getting a damn ID card... you have multiple aliases and have 'disappeared', right? Now, you are suddenly going to submit your personal information into a consolidated database? Why the change of heart?

caifan82

Cosmo wrote:

And as for 'deport them'... deport them to WHERE? What is they are El Salvadorian or Iranian and that say they are Mexican? Ship them off to Mexico?

Haha if I was in this case, I think I would say I'm from Bora Bora. Free vacations, here I come!

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

i'd call it more like "super paranoid". here's the reasons:
RADIO EDIT...

...
I find this statement a bit puzzling...
I mean, it comes from someone who claims to have 'vanished' from society and admittedly avoided paying taxes in the past, under several aliases and who owns a stockpile of weapons in a compund (a.k. "Ranch") in the middle of nowhere... addressed to someone who willingly pays his taxes every year and only has one name, his real, birth name (except for his moniker on a Pearl Jam message board) and though he doesn't trust his government because he doesn't trust politicians, he does not own a ton of weapons in case the Army decides to storm his doors... because he KNOWS that will never happen.
Does that qualify as 'irony'?

Cosmo

caifan82 wrote:

Haha if I was in this case, I think I would say I'm from Bora Bora. Free vacations, here I come!

...
I know... it's a fucking joke.
If a guy is here illegally... you have to be a complete idiot to think he's going to give you his real name and where he's from.
I'm with you... I hear Fiji is really nice this time of year.