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Such Bullshit

Phantom PainPhantom Pain Posts: 9,876
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
Just because you don't agree with or believe in something does not mean it should be stopped

This is what pisses me off about Christian Groups !


The Golden Compass
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Comments

  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    the trilogy is definitely an indictment of the church ... can't say this was unexpected ...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    what if the little girl's mission was to kill allah?? think about that for a second.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just because you don't agree with or believe in something does not mean it should be stopped

    This is what pisses me off about Christian Groups !


    The Golden Compass

    Then everyone quit bitching about the Iraq war. Just b/c you don't agree with it doesn't mean it should be stopped!!!! ;)
    ...
    This must be the only film attacked in the same week for being too religious and for being anti-religious — and by people who haven’t seen it,"

    that was my favorite line of the article.

    So what, all this controversy will do is make people more aware of it and make more people go see it.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just because you don't agree with or believe in something does not mean it should be stopped

    This is what pisses me off about Christian Groups !

    The Golden Compass

    i actually agree with them. it's bullshit that they have excised that entire element from the movies. like the one quote said, it's "a blatant cop-out to the Bible Belt of America." fuck that.

    i also found his comments on the narnia books interesting.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    it looks cool to me.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just because you don't agree with or believe in something does not mean it should be stopped

    This is what pisses me off about Christian Groups !


    The Golden Compass

    I'm confused. I kind of scanned the article and it seemed like BOTH Christian and Athiest groups were unhappy about it.

    And by the way, I'm a Christian and my "group" had nothing to do this. Just a friendly reminder that all Christian groups are not the same.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

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  • prytocorduroyprytocorduroy Posts: 4,355
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just because you don't agree with or believe in something does not mean it should be stopped

    This is what pisses me off about Christian Groups !


    The Golden Compass
    Don't group all Christian Groups with extreme examples. My father is the biggest Catholic I know, and there are times he gets out of control, but that's uncommon. When I'm around and he does it I make sure to tell him to stop preaching because obviously they believe in something else, and if they wanted to be converted they'd go to our church. That's the mind frame this group needs to get in: it's okay for you, but not for everybody.

    Are you basically saying that these "Christian Groups" making an uproar should stop because you do not agree with them PP? ;)

    EDIT: I just realized I contradict myself in this haha. I'm a hypocrite :D
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    you know i quite enjoyed the dark materials trilogy. i cold even deal with the religious aspects. i liked the inclusion of daemons. ans saw them as representative of the soul. and i certainly found the concept of dust interesting. i would imagine if a false God is killed in the books then that would be a good thing, no? afterall one shouldn't worship false idols, isnt that how it goes? i read them as an adventure. i didnt particularly see the books as anti-religion. however if they are anti-church then that is something entirely different in my book. surely questioning the authority of the church is a healthy thing, isn't it? you wouldn't want people blindly following something without a thought in their head would you? ;):)
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  • SnakeSnake Posts: 2,605
    Well for one, Im a Christian. But I dont really care about this at all. I think people have a right to say its wrong and voice an oppinion, but I dont think it should be boycotted or anything. Just remember not all christians are like the ones your talking about. Infact you could say there are christian extreamists, who think what they'er doing is right, but in reality they are making an illusion.
    Same thing with christians and muslims, not everybody is like what your see and in most cases hate. I think people are just misdirected by things that religious groups do, that in reality arent at all what their base beliefs are even about. Remember ask someone from the inside, Dont make an oppinion until you talk the other side!

    I know the majority of this isnt about the article, but hey! lol


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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Very interesting that they 'watered' it down to pander to the religious US market. After hearing Pullman's statements on CS Lewis, I would think he would be uninterested in altering his story in any way.

    It's funny to me. The Chronicles of Narnia was one of my favorites as a kid and since I wasn't raised in the Church, I totally missed out on the Christian aspect until later in life.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • geniegenie Posts: 2,222
    jlew24asu wrote:
    what if the little girl's mission was to kill allah?? think about that for a second.

    very good question, my man. and i'd hate to imagine how muslim population would react to it, there would probably be a world war III ;)
  • Phantom PainPhantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    baraka wrote:
    Very interesting that they 'watered' it down to pander to the religious US market. After hearing Pullman's statements on CS Lewis, I would think he would be uninterested in altering his story in any way.

    It's funny to me. The Chronicles of Narnia was one of my favorites as a kid and since I wasn't raised in the Church, I totally missed out on the Christian aspect until later in life.


    Thats what I'm talking about "watered" down

    It is what is if he (the author) is an Atheist and that's what he believes the movie should not be changed because of pressure from the Extreme Christian Groups

    That's what pisses me off when these Extreme Groups push it down your throat because they dont agree with it !
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • Phantom PainPhantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    danny72688 wrote:
    Don't group all Christian Groups with extreme examples. My father is the biggest Catholic I know, and there are times he gets out of control, but that's uncommon. When I'm around and he does it I make sure to tell him to stop preaching because obviously they believe in something else, and if they wanted to be converted they'd go to our church. That's the mind frame this group needs to get in: it's okay for you, but not for everybody.

    Are you basically saying that these "Christian Groups" making an uproar should stop because you do not agree with them PP? ;)

    EDIT: I just realized I contradict myself in this haha. I'm a hypocrite :D


    It's fine to make an uproar and not agree with it, but the movie or a book or any form of art should not be changed because these Extreme Christian Groups dont agree with it.
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    This is just for ratings or subscriptions or whatever will generate a buck.
    They ALWAYS get the loony, creepy Christian dude who claims to speak for all Christians.. nothing different here. The Loony, creepy people with the loudest voices are ALWAYS the ones the media attaches itself to because thet are the most fun to watch... in order to stir controversy... entertain the audience... increased viewers translates to increased ratings... higher sponsorships.
    Anyone who wants to 'convert' others to their religion... or convert religious people out of their religions need to look at their own fucking pathetic lives and ask themselves... "What am I selling to other people that would want them to lead a pathetic life, such as mine"?
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  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Thats what I'm talking about "watered" down

    It is what is if he (the author) is an Atheist and that's what he believes the movie should not be changed because of pressure from the Extreme Christian Groups

    That's what pisses me off when these Extreme Groups push it down your throat because they dont agree with it !

    But Pullman had no problem with how the movie was made. He was quoted in the article saying: “This must be the only film attacked in the same week for being too religious and for being anti-religious — and by people who haven’t seen it," he said. "I have very friendly and happy relations with the filmmakers, and I'm very happy with what they are doing."

    The extreme groups are unhappy, because they think the 'watered down' movie is a 'a deceitful, stealth campaign', their words. My question is why did Pullman fold and agree to this 'watered down' version?

    Edit:The books sound very interested. I'm intrigued.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • Phantom PainPhantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    baraka wrote:
    But Pullman had no problem with how the movie was made. He was quoted in the article saying: “This must be the only film attacked in the same week for being too religious and for being anti-religious — and by people who haven’t seen it," he said. "I have very friendly and happy relations with the filmmakers, and I'm very happy with what they are doing."

    The extreme groups are unhappy, because they think the 'watered down' movie is a 'a deceitful, stealth campaign', their words. My question is why did Pullman fold and agree to this 'watered down' version?

    Edit:The books sound very interested. I'm intrigued.


    I wonder how much pressure he got from the Distribution company to water it down ?

    They said the movie has been in the works since 2004 I believe

    I am intrigued as well at all 3 of the books : Triolgy
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    I wonder how much pressure he got from the Distribution company to water it down ?

    They said the movie has been in the works since 2004 I believe

    I am intrigued as well at all 3 of the books : Triolgy


    I don't doubt there was pressure, I'm just surprised that someone who seems devout in their beliefs would fold under pressure.

    Yeah, the books look interesting! I think I might pick up the first one tomorrow. You know, I looked at the 'Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought' area on the site you linked and there are a few books there that I have read and enjoyed, specifically J.R.R. Tolkien. Here's an interesting fact: It was J.R.R. Tolkien that inspired CS Lewis to convert from atheism to Christianity.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • MahoganySoulsMahoganySouls Posts: 357
    catefrances wrote:
    you know i quite enjoyed the dark materials trilogy. i cold even deal with the religious aspects. i liked the inclusion of daemons. ans saw them as representative of the soul. and i certainly found the concept of dust interesting. i would imagine if a false God is killed in the books then that would be a good thing, no? afterall one shouldn't worship false idols, isnt that how it goes? i read them as an adventure. i didnt particularly see the books as anti-religion. however if they are anti-church then that is something entirely different in my book. surely questioning the authority of the church is a healthy thing, isn't it? you wouldn't want people blindly following something without a thought in their head would you? ;):)
    If there is no God, then how can there be demons?
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • MahoganySoulsMahoganySouls Posts: 357
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    I wonder how much pressure he got from the Distribution company to water it down ?

    They said the movie has been in the works since 2004 I believe

    I am intrigued as well at all 3 of the books : Triolgy
    I think the point of the "watering down" is that people will go see these movies and expect the books to be just as benign. But then their kids will read the books and be influenced by the anti-religious sentiment in them. That is why the Christian groups are upset. At least that is how I read it.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • MahoganySoulsMahoganySouls Posts: 357
    So here is what I don't get. If, according to the author's ideaology, there is no God, no spirituality, how can there be a mystical compass that directs the girl to "truth"? You either believe in other worldly forces/spirits/angels whatever you want to call them, or you don't. You can't say it/they don't exist and then create a tool in which to be lead by it/them.
    "When you're climbing to the top, you'd better know the way back down" MSB
  • W.C. CarterW.C. Carter Posts: 56
    "It's a deceitful, stealth campaign. Pullman is hoping his books will fly off the shelves at Christmastime."

    I gotta say I really enjoyed this statement. Are they honestly claiming that they are trying to sell books based on ATHEISM for CHRISTMAS?
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    MahoganySouls wrote:
    So here is what I don't get. If, according to the author's ideaology, there is no God, no spirituality, how can there be a mystical compass that directs the girl to "truth"? You either believe in other worldly forces/spirits/angels whatever you want to call them, or you don't. You can't say it/they don't exist and then create a tool in which to be lead by it/them.

    The short of it: Because a compass is something you can hold in your hand.

    The long of it: We are all guided from within ourselves. Imagination included.
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  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    The short of it: Because a compass is something you can hold in your hand.

    The long of it: We are all guided from within ourselves. Imagination included.

    Q: Did you even read the article?
    A: No. I don't groove on those fairy stories.
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  • pj10alive42pj10alive42 Posts: 381
    Bout time someone teaches these god damn kids the truth!
    I'm trying to drink away the part of the day I cannot sleep away...
  • Phantom PainPhantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    pj10alive42 wrote:
    Bout time someone teaches these god damn kids the truth!


    Yeah !

    At least let them have an open mind towards it, unlike me being brainwashed my whole life in Catholic School

    I was never taught or shown anything other than that
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    MahoganySouls wrote:
    If there is no God, then how can there be demons?

    who said there was no God? i said false God. :)
    hear my name
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  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    baraka wrote:
    Here's an interesting fact: It was J.R.R. Tolkien that inspired CS Lewis to convert from atheism to Christianity.

    Another interesting fact: Tolkien felt that Lewis was much too preachy and direct with his christian message, and that such elements shouldn't interfere with the story and the universe it is set in. (Like Tolkien's own world, where the message is much deeper buried, but there if you look)

    But about the article. The start reads as follows:

    "A children’s fantasy film that stars Nicole Kidman and features a little girl on a quest to kill God has some Christian groups upset over what they believe is a ploy to promote atheism to kids."

    Is that any worse than ploys to promote christianity to kids, as in Narnia?

    And by the way, the girl is not "on a quest to kill god", that is a very bad representation of what the books are about. The books escalate from relating only Lyra's story in the first book, to develop into the big war between "The Authority" and "the rebels", with a lot of (quasi)scientific and deeply philosophical references thrown in.

    I highly recommend the series for anyone into fantasy at all, and/or have any interest in philosophy. I rate this series on par with Lord Of The Rings. It is THAT good.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    Another interesting fact: Tolkien felt that Lewis was much too preachy and direct with his christian message, and that such elements shouldn't interfere with the story and the universe it is set in. (Like Tolkien's own world, where the message is much deeper buried, but there if you look)

    But about the article. The start reads as follows:

    "A children’s fantasy film that stars Nicole Kidman and features a little girl on a quest to kill God has some Christian groups upset over what they believe is a ploy to promote atheism to kids."

    Is that any worse than ploys to promote christianity to kids, as in Narnia?

    And by the way, the girl is not "on a quest to kill god", that is a very bad representation of what the books are about. The books escalate from relating only Lyra's story in the first book, to develop into the big war between "The Authority" and "the rebels", with a lot of (quasi)scientific and deeply philosophical references thrown in.

    I highly recommend the series for anyone into fantasy at all, and/or have any interest in philosophy. I rate this series on par with Lord Of The Rings. It is THAT good.

    Peace
    Dan

    Good Christ.
    These are children's stories you're talking about here.
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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Q: Did you even read the article?
    A: No. I don't groove on those fairy stories.

    you are one strange fella.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    These groups have every right to speak their mind, I may not agree with them but that doesn't mean that they should be quieted. These are probably the same people who ban Harry Potter books from their town libraries and ban Halloween celebrations from their children's schools so I really don't take them to seriously.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
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