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Pat Tillman And A Shameful Set Of Circumstamces

TruthmongerTruthmonger Posts: 559
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
Pat Tillman was an American soldier who volunteered to go to Iraq. When he got there, he was killed by his own countrymen - albeit accidentily. The shameful aspect of this story comes from the U.S. military who then lied to his family about how he was killed. They had neglected to tell his family that it was, in fact, his own people that had killed him, and that it was caused by "gross negligence". Even worse:

"A report by the army later found troops with Tillman knew at the time friendly fire had killed the football star. Officers destroyed critical evidence and concealed the truth from Tillman’s brother, also an Army Ranger, who was nearby"

Now a new criminal investigation hopes to get to the bottom of it all...

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141513810189&call_pageid=968867503640
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Comments

  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    I can't help but wonder how much of this is political. The have nothing good at all going about this war - Tilman is still the only face they can come up with that is honorable.
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    Exactly. What are they going to uncover? That Tillman was shot on accident? Real big news there, we all knew this some time ago. Now these poor soldiers that were involved are going to get dragged through all of this shit just to make some politicians and PR for the Army look good. What a disgrace.
  • steppenwolfsteppenwolf Posts: 164
    gabers wrote:
    Exactly. What are they going to uncover? That Tillman was shot on accident? Real big news there, we all knew this some time ago. Now these poor soldiers that were involved are going to get dragged through all of this shit just to make some politicians and PR for the Army look good. What a disgrace.

    I believe it is Pat Tillman's family that put the pressure on Washington to reinvestigate his death as a criminal matter.
  • TruthmongerTruthmonger Posts: 559
    Well, what the new investigation might reveal is just how deceptive the supervising officers were in this whole affair. For example, just how much evidence was destoyed. What were they trying to accomplish by destroying it ? Who did it. Why ? Also, if it wasn't someone of Tillman's stature, I wonder if the truth EVER would have gotten out ? Or would they have just lied about it and never corrected it later.

    I dunno, but it is tragically ironic that at a time when the armed forces can't recruit people, this guy actually volunteers, and in so doing, gets fucked over by the people he enlisted to help. Sad story.
  • KingmidgetKingmidget Posts: 628
    Tillman hated the war...who knows, maybe some GI didn't like his anti-Bush approach...maybe it was more

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm
  • steppenwolfsteppenwolf Posts: 164
    Kingmidget wrote:
    Tillman hated the war...who knows, maybe some GI didn't like his anti-Bush approach...maybe it was more

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm

    holy shit. i didn't know this. thanks for the link.
  • TruthmongerTruthmonger Posts: 559
    Kingmidget wrote:
    Tillman hated the war...who knows, maybe some GI didn't like his anti-Bush approach...maybe it was more

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm

    That's right, I forgot about that. The Bush media sychophants were all treating him like he was the second-coming until they realized what his leanings were. All of a sudden, he wasn't the hero they had initially made him out to be.
  • TruthmongerTruthmonger Posts: 559
    "And Pat said, 'You know, this war is so f***ing illegal.' And we all said, 'Yeah.' "
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    Kingmidget wrote:
    Tillman hated the war...who knows, maybe some GI didn't like his anti-Bush approach...maybe it was more

    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1007-22.htm

    Wow! I had no idea. Thanks for the link. It kind of puts things in perspective now.
  • KingmidgetKingmidget Posts: 628
    A friend pointed me to that article some time back...I've seen other discussions on this issue also...the guy definitely spoke out more than once against the war and Bush while in Iraq....his whole death left me questioning allot of things after I hunted down more info.

    I'm hoping more GIs express their true feelings about whats happening in Iraq as they return home. Unfortunately this interesting guy won't have the chance.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    thanks for posting this...I always thought Tillman was the typical pro war soldier who went in for the usual reasons. To see the real story is good know, thanks.
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    Abuskedti wrote:
    I can't help but wonder how much of this is political. The have nothing good at all going about this war - Tilman is still the only face they can come up with that is honorable.

    I cant help but wonder how much a soldier (thousands out there who are honorable) would want to choke the life out of you for your statement. Tillman still went because he knows its not a soldiers job to agree, just to do. Thats the honor of EVERY one of the men and women serving in any war.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    I cant help but wonder how much a soldier (thousands out there who are honorable) would want to choke the life out of you for your statement. Tillman still went because he knows its not a soldiers job to agree, just to do. Thats the honor of EVERY one of the men and women serving in any war.

    Whew, that is as warped as I've heard in a while. Now, your beloved administration likes to think its a soldiers job just to do and not to agree. I suppose you'd be suprized to know soldiers don't consider themselves lemmings - and part of a team that analyses situations, shares information, ideas and works hard toward a common goal.

    and even when insulted by silly comments by bullies like you- many would just ignore stupid remarks - such as you just made - with no desire to choke you at all.
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    Truthmonger wrote:
    Well, what the new investigation might reveal is just how deceptive the supervising officers were in this whole affair. For example, just how much evidence was destoyed. What were they trying to accomplish by destroying it ? Who did it. Why ? Also, if it wasn't someone of Tillman's stature, I wonder if the truth EVER would have gotten out ? Or would they have just lied about it and never corrected it later.

    I dunno, but it is tragically ironic that at a time when the armed forces can't recruit people, this guy actually volunteers, and in so doing, gets fucked over by the people he enlisted to help. Sad story.


    Probably the reverse. If he wasnt such a well known, publicized soldier, there wouldnt have been any percieved need to "cover it up". If I was the guy who pulled the trigger, I wouldnt want the whole world to know about it either. Do you people honestly expect perfection from people? He "gets fucked over'???? Accidents happen. Twas an unfortunate one. How many companies, people, families, etc do you know who rush right out to air their problems, mistakes etc.? If the administration and the military actually answered to you people, they'd have no time to do their jobs. What country exists where individual citizens "need" to know is satiated??


    You people need to view the "big picture". You're grasping at straws trying to find something to get you Bush's head. It was pathetic for a while, its now just become amusement.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • KingmidgetKingmidget Posts: 628
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    Probably the reverse. If he wasnt such a well known, publicized soldier, there wouldnt have been any percieved need to "cover it up". If I was the guy who pulled the trigger, I wouldnt want the whole world to know about it either. Do you people honestly expect perfection from people? He "gets fucked over'???? Accidents happen. Twas an unfortunate one. How many companies, people, families, etc do you know who rush right out to air their problems, mistakes etc.? If the administration and the military actually answered to you people, they'd have no time to do their jobs. What country exists where individual citizens "need" to know is satiated??


    You people need to view the "big picture". You're grasping at straws trying to find something to get you Bush's head. It was pathetic for a while, its now just become amusement.


    I'd like Bush's head, but its been gone awhile......

    Best bumpersticker lately..."A village in Texas is missing its idiot!"
  • steppenwolfsteppenwolf Posts: 164
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    Probably the reverse. If he wasnt such a well known, publicized soldier, there wouldnt have been any percieved need to "cover it up". If I was the guy who pulled the trigger, I wouldnt want the whole world to know about it either. Do you people honestly expect perfection from people? He "gets fucked over'???? Accidents happen. Twas an unfortunate one. How many companies, people, families, etc do you know who rush right out to air their problems, mistakes etc.? If the administration and the military actually answered to you people, they'd have no time to do their jobs. What country exists where individual citizens "need" to know is satiated??


    You people need to view the "big picture". You're grasping at straws trying to find something to get you Bush's head. It was pathetic for a while, its now just become amusement.

    so, as deadly and dangerous as you perceive this world to be (and i agree i can be, obviously), are you suggesting the Tillman family is just out to bust Bush's balls? If any of Tillman's buddies wanted to organize and take out the prez, they could do it. The family pushed for this investigation. They know there is a cover-up (there was one to begin with), so isn't it beneficial to them to try to find out what exactly happened that day?
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    steppenwolf wrote:
    so, as deadly and dangerous as you perceive this world to be (and i agree i can be, obviously), are you suggesting the Tillman family is just out to bust Bush's balls? If any of Tillman's buddies wanted to organize and take out the prez, they could do it. The family pushed for this investigation. They know there is a cover-up (there was one to begin with), so isn't it beneficial to them to try to find out what exactly happened that day?


    Yeah, and they kind of deserve the truth after what they've been through. We all do.
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    steppenwolf wrote:
    so, as deadly and dangerous as you perceive this world to be (and i agree i can be, obviously), are you suggesting the Tillman family is just out to bust Bush's balls? If any of Tillman's buddies wanted to organize and take out the prez, they could do it. The family pushed for this investigation. They know there is a cover-up (there was one to begin with), so isn't it beneficial to them to try to find out what exactly happened that day?

    Does the family deserve to know what happened. Surely. Do we? Fuck no. I have no clue how you took my words and somehow involved a "family plot to 'bust balls'".

    FYI death from friendly fire happens all the time. Even in times of "peace". I highly doubt we are informed of all of them.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    Does the family deserve to know what happened. Surely. Do we? Fuck no. Any more than Cheney's shooting incident.

    FYI death from friendly fire happens all the time. Even in times of "peace". I highly doubt we are informed of all of them.


    secerets in a democracy kind of defeat the concept behind the concept.

    When our elected vice president shoots somebody in the face we sure as hell have a right to know about it. If someone is that much of an idiot, to mistake a 78 year old man for a bird, he might not be the best guy for the job if you know what I mean.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    FYI death from friendly fire happens all the time. Even in times of "peace". I highly doubt we are informed of all of them.

    they usually don't tell the media and public lies about it, either
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    Commy wrote:
    secerets in a democracy kind of defeat the concept behind the concept.

    When our elected vice president shoots somebody in the face we sure as hell have a right to know about it. If someone is that much of an idiot, to mistake a 78 year old man for a bird, he might not be the best guy for the job if you know what I mean.


    you wanna know what bush has for lunch every day? How many times congressmen take a shit too? Keeping secrets and needing to know is very different. And with a biased liberal bloodthirsty media, apparently there's not much we DONT need to know. And a hunting accident corrolates to managerial and organizational skills how? Careful how far you stretch, wouldnt want you to fall flat on your face. :)
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they usually don't tell the media and public lies about it, either

    Or they don't get caught. There is Im sure ALOT of things in the military that are kept strictly WITHIN the military. And need to be. Other than satisfying your bloodlust for Bush, exactly why do you care?? Do you truly care for Pat Tillman and his family? Id bet Pat took quite a few arabs with him before he died. Hes a murderer too by you guys definition. Say yes, and Ill call u a liar.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    you wanna know what bush has for lunch every day? How many times congressmen take a shit too? Keeping secrets and needing to know is very different. And with a biased liberal bloodthirsty media, apparently there's not much we DONT need to know. And a hunting accident corrolates to managerial and organizational skills how? Careful how far you stretch, wouldnt want you to fall flat on your face. :)


    This guy is supposed to be a decision maker....he made the decision to shoot a 78 year old man in the face. Maybe that's not the guy we need to be making decisions for the entire country, just my opinion.
  • Milhouse VanHoutenMilhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    you wanna know what bush has for lunch every day? How many times congressmen take a shit too? Keeping secrets and needing to know is very different. And with a biased liberal bloodthirsty media, apparently there's not much we DONT need to know. And a hunting accident corrolates to managerial and organizational skills how? Careful how far you stretch, wouldnt want you to fall flat on your face. :)

    "Biased liberal bloodthirsty media"? Yeah, because no conservative media outlets ever used their position to attack Clinton. Oh the First Lady. Or their daughter. If it weren't for Clinton hunting, half of the wastes of DNA on talk radio wouldn't have jobs. All the talk about the biased liberal media is such a crock of shit.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    "Biased liberal bloodthirsty media"? Yeah, because no conservative media outlets ever used their position to attack Clinton. Oh the First Lady. Or their daughter. If it weren't for Clinton hunting, half of the wastes of DNA on talk radio wouldn't have jobs. All the talk about the biased liberal media is such a crock of shit.

    At least you're not still stuck in a pre-9/11 mentality. Oh wait, you said Clinton. My mistake.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    Or they don't get caught. There is Im sure ALOT of things in the military that are kept strictly WITHIN the military. And need to be. Other than satisfying your bloodlust for Bush, exactly why do you care?? Do you truly care for Pat Tillman and his family? Id bet Pat took quite a few arabs with him before he died. Hes a murderer too by you guys definition. Say yes, and Ill call u a liar.

    right, you seemed to just throw out retarded generalizations and not even address me...my bloodlust for bush? :rolleyes:
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Milhouse VanHoutenMilhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    At least you're not still stuck in a pre-9/11 mentality. Oh wait, you said Clinton. My mistake.

    What does your point have to do with the parallels between the media treatment of George Bush and Bill Clinton?

    You know, some people in America were concerned with global terrorism and its causes before September 11th.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Veddie_EdderVeddie_Edder Posts: 39
    El_Kabong wrote:
    right, you seemed to just throw out retarded generalizations and not even address me...my bloodlust for bush? :rolleyes:

    huh??????? I throw out generalizations. Pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle. your black. Over.
    Right on dude!!!!!
  • steppenwolfsteppenwolf Posts: 164
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    Does the family deserve to know what happened. Surely. Do we? Fuck no. I have no clue how you took my words and somehow involved a "family plot to 'bust balls'".

    FYI death from friendly fire happens all the time. Even in times of "peace". I highly doubt we are informed of all of them.

    Did we have the right to know Tillman wasn't killed by the enemy as the Army first reported/lied about?
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Veddie_Edder wrote:
    huh??????? I throw out generalizations. Pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle. your black. Over.


    yes, the majority of your reply to me had nothing to do w/ me personally, they were just misguided generalizations you have of liberals

    over? are you on a cb radio or something?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
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