Zeitgeist Addendum
melodious
Posts: 1,719
Featured at You Tube in 13 sections, if already been posted, consider this a bump...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT-2fenmLnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT-2fenmLnc
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
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Did you, or anyone else watch it yet?
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Could've done without the alternately ominous, then zen musical score...
For part of it, I was worried that both movies were a lead up to some scientolog-ish-cult sales pitch (venus project)...although I was left wondering about details, the principle is pretty sound imo....still, I'm sure people will slam it as utopian and impossible.
There are things that made me kinda weirded out about it tho; they don't have to do with the film itself...the timing of the release, and the plea for people to register at their movement's website...Is this the govt blacklist? Signing up for the first stop on the black helicopter express? :cool:
Has anyone followed the venus project's work? Surprised I've never heard of it, the website has a ton of information...
I found it to be organized well...it was nothing I hadn't already thought about myself. I appreciated earlier clips in discussing how money is flowed and how the system is set for a no end to debt scenario..
the best insurance policy anyone can have is to keep one's self in balance with universal flow and build positive feedback...
keep your expenses minimized
and hold onto your faith
visualize prosperity for everyone
be grateful for your blessings
and turn your challenges into
opportunity.
peace.
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
The first half is phenomenal.
THe second half gets lost in a paradoxical utopian never-never land,
promoting the half baked concept of a "resource based economy" where cash doesn't exist, and most people don't work, and instead machines set us free to follow our bliss.
Needless to say, i have some concerns with the premise ... like how am i going to get my orange juice, and pearl jam tickets?
Also, the guy paradoxically rambles about politicians being irrelevant, because technology is our real king, and all we need to do is unfetter production from the evils of money and all will be well.
But then you go to the website, and they talk about setting up a global government ... of course, "not the kind of global government that the greed elite want" ... right, of course. A more benevolent people loving global government.
:sigh:
Look, humanity has been down this road already.
Trotsky's ideas were brilliant in THEORY as well.
In practice it just doesn't play out that way, though.
But like i said, the first half of the movie, featuring "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" authory, John Perkins, is excellent.
All the stuff about new energy technologies is great. In fact, the United States is (amazingly) leading the charge with deep-hydrothermal energy production, and that technology truly does have a incredible promise for the future. The US government recently gave a 60 million dollar research grant allocation out for it (should have been 60 billion if we're giving it away anyhow, imho).
I just think their may be some more practical steps that could be taken to get towards some of the aims of technological progress and betterment of human condition indicated therein. Small example, if the people are so concerned about their energy production, why don't they just organize through the government to buy out some of the major energy companies and take over the board. A company like exxon has a total market cap around 700billion ... thats do-able ... we could buy that. Lets buy energy companies and apply the profits towards social security, instead of executive compensation.
Anyone else with a take on the "No Cash" angle?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And the part where it stated that we are no longer countries inhabiting the world because corporations now hold that title, was a highlight in which i had yet to connect dots...
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912&hl=en
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
most welcome. It's a must watch....especially the first half. Very big eye opener for a lot of people.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
here's the crap-quality stream version in torrent if anyone would prefer to watch from the couch...
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1876372
The best thing about these movies is that they are produced well enough to interest people with zero knowledge of this kind of stuff...informative without the AJ friction burns. I made copies of the first one for co-workers, family, friends...not one of them came back calling me crazy
What I took from it is the something most rational people know:
We are squandering our resources, and corruption has robbed most of the world of a fair standard of living. Something has to, and probably will give...
But a resource-based system, on a large scale? I can't see how the transition would work...nor does it mention how a resource-based system would avoid corruption. Maybe there is more detail on the website...
But...
You look at the money pissed away in the last 10 years alone.... A trillion in total drug war cost in Bush's first four years in office...what, a trillion so far in bailouts? How much on Iraq? That's projected in the thousand-billions too, isn't it? ....you have to wonder what the world would be like with that kind of funding going to responsible medical, energy, agricultural R&D....when you think of it in that light, the idea that technology COULD be developed quickly to solve our energy, water and food issues is not that utopian.
You should read the book, Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
It's phenomenal. And a thriller read.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
ZG Addendum is entirely different than the original ZG, it would probably clarify a lot from the original couple versions.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
This...brings us to our second failure of awareness: the false assumption of separation through the rejection of the symbiotic relationship of life.
Apart from the understanding that all natural systems are emergent, where all notions of reality will be constantly developed, altered and even eradicated, we must also understand that all systems are in fact invented fragments, merely for the sake of conversation. For there is no such thing as independence in nature. The whole of nature is a unified system of interdependent variables, each a cause and a reaction existing only as a concentrated whole.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Amy Goodman interviews the Economic Hitman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
The base issue is that until humans evolve to the holistic awareness this film talks about, no matter what system we use - including this Venus Project - it will reflect the current general fragmented mindsets of the humans perpetuating them, including power-imbalances and inauthentic power hierarchies.
The key to recognizing this is by noting any duality-based view...such as the one this film presents: good guys/good system vs bad...which is a perpetuation of the age-old problem/flaw we disdain in organized religion, etc.
The Holism/unity this film accurately extolls the virtues of is beyond good/bad dichotomy.
Ultimately, though, the brilliance in this movie, like the last one, is using the vehicle of good/bad to bring valid holistic concepts to people who are not yet perceiving holistically and beyond good/bad dichotomies. I celebrate that this movie has presented a vision contrary to the expected mayhem on the horizon.
And as Krishnamurti talks of at the end of the film, like Jesus did as well..we don't need the structures/teachers, etc. outside of us. We are both the teacher/pupil or the goverment/the governed in any holistic and awakened view.
We don't need the Venus project. And yet, we do need to recognize the validity of dropping out of our current systems, and to individually finding our own truths and to create our own vision and to live it. By doing so, we align with that which seeks emergence through us at all times: our Glorious Potential.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF3NSHDzYM&feature=related
very wise words, from a seasoned veteran that understands more than anyone possibly could.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I just wish they didn't jump off the looney train with the "no cash world" view.
Without SOME method of ACCOUNTING and EXCHANGE, there is NO way to "fairly" handle DEMAND.
Some of the "economic" (and i use the term very loosely) theories presented here are so far out of step with reality as we know it that it is impossible to see how ANYONE could think they would function.
For instance, they talk about there being "abundance" and "enough resources for all", but how can anyone be so naive as to think there is enough of EVERYTHING for EVERYONE.
It is an outright fallacy.
Simple case in point, Pearl Jam plays a show.
how many seats at each show?
How many people want to go -- ESPECIALLY if there is NO fee ???
So HOW do you distribute the tickets?
What about orange juice?
I love it. But if there was NO COST for it, who WOULDN'T want orange juice?
Are there enough oranges to serve orange juice to everyone, everyday? Who makes this decision? How is the juice distributed? ???
Everytime you remove a market mechanism ... like MONEY ... you have to REPLACE IT with some other LESS DEMOCRATIC structure. That is one of the major realized flaws of the central planning model used by old school socialist countries. If you aren't going to let the market determine value and supply allocation (who gets what) then you have to rely on an essentialy FASCIST INSTITUTION to make those decisions.
How is that ANY better than using cash?
If people want to make changes like the ones this movie presents, i still strongly suggest working WITHIN the systems we currently have. YOU CAN HAVE RADICAL CHANGE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
And that would be my premise.
If you want to take power (no pun) away from the energy companies, you can do that legally in MANY ways ... the most radical of which would be to simply REVOKE THEIR CORPORATE CHARTER or do a STATE SEIZURE of assets ... those are both entirely radical concepts, but they don't violate the fundamental nature of the existing system ...
impose very strict mandates on them, modify their charter, tax the shit out of them, get a court to invalidate their patent rights based on some radical socialist principle and redistribute them ... i can think of dozens of answers to the problem of energy company mahem that don't involve some pie-in-the-sky NEVER going to happen, NEVER going to even be FEASABLE idea like "NO MONEY".
If you want to deal with some of the major harms that our system of money has created, then implement stricter "environmental accounting" regulations, and force corporations to figure those costs in to their books.
If you want to deal with the systemic troubles of our monetary system, simply revoke central banking charters, and restore the constitutional order of our republic. Reducing the flow of cheap credit to banks woudl stop or slow a great deal of the ills currently associated with banks and, as jefferson warned, "the corporations that grow up around them".
I dunno.
call me old fashion.
I just think the whole idea of "no money" is BEYOND silly.
Its not that it CAN'T be done, its that even the guy here proposing it (if you read his website), admits that it would require a GLOBAL GOVERNMENT to make the resource allocation decisions. And i've got big news for you, if you think ANY government is semi-incompetent at what it does now (like balancing a budget), how the HELL do you think they will respond to the challenge of balancing the ENTIRETY of WORLD SUPPLY with the entirety of WORLD DEMAND? ???
The soviets couldn't even get it right for their barren plot of the world. And for fucks sake, they were still using money!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I think it could work, it wouldn't be perfect, but it would probably be an improvement looking at the big picture from a humanity perspective. What would probably happen by default is desirable goods would be acquired and used as a form of currency, depending on the society.
not perfect, but interesting.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
You know, I really have very little aptitude for understanding financial systems, plus, I've been considered a fairly serious utopian visionary, and even *I* thought the no-money world was an entirely ludicrous idea!
And yet...
The thing is, if everything we perceive and live and experience is based on our limited perceptions and on the flaws in the systems we talk of, we are seeing through such filters and thusly can't even imagine what is entirely plausible and possible beyond! That said, of course there are always the logistics of just exactly who wants to supply the orange juice.
I've broached this with you before...when people are coming from a holistic place of internal, unfragmented unity like proposed in this movie, they are coming from a place of potential. When one is naturally aligned to what naturally emerges from natural law, one must act out one's purpose. One recognizes and LOVES 'other' as one's-self, because one knows we are all literally ONE. Therefore one naturally serves life, self and other. For some that means making the orange juice!
The illusion we are fed is if we do not tow the going line, that we fall away and become lazy-sloth-like beings draining the system. While sloth-like laziness does exist, it's a product of the current unsustainable systems and the fragmented-non-holistic view that people are held within by said dysfunctioning systems. It is not a product of unadulterated natural law and potential we are not currently accessing.
I personally choose not to support and work within systems that I see are of an old, undermining energy, because to do so is to perpetuate them. I choose to step out of these limited systems spiritually/philosophically, even while existing amidst them (being in the world but not of it), while focussing on birthing the new, creative, functioning systems that meet our needs in healthy ways, however possible, as the movie suggests. If I continue to actively engage or fight against the dysfunctioning systems in any way, I empower them with my only true currency: my beloved energy. In realizing that my life energy is my most amazing commodity, I choose to invest wisely.
Thanks for the discussion! It's always a pleasure!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
As we evolve, the systems we currently have that are not working will continue to fall away. Sure it is a long time-consuming process, but that's evolution for you! The problem comes in when we are basically unconscious, as most are, and then in order to adapt, we are forced. It happens as these systems are falling away, to our shock and dismay (as we can see happening around us). We're learning and adapting all the time, many of us unconsciously, while we're mesmerized by ideology that keeps us from seeing what's happening. Such happenings only get our attention by the pain they cause us. The benefit to raising our awareness is that we can align with natural evolutionary processes, and actually feel happy, alive, vibrant and even legitimately hopeful as things fall away around us, making way for healthier systems.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Peace
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
See, Angelica.
I think this is where the entire vision of the 2nd part of this movie fails.
"the greed" is NOT inherent in the monetary system.
It is inherent IN MAN.
To think that providing for the NEEDS of every man is some how going to curb the INHERENT greed in man, to stop him from forming BLACKMARKETS (anyone remember this term used with RUSSIA a LOT ???) to fulfill his WANTS is just non-sensical.
The best any system of distribution can achieve is to provide for those needs and wants of man, and to attempt to allay as many social consequences as possible.
I happen to think that markets are NOT fundamentaly flawed, and that it is a tenable and NECESSARY system which, if implemented with rational policies and safegaurds, could work just as good or better than the idea\intent proposed behind this "no money" absurdity.
If you believe, like I do, that one of the major failures of markets is their current inability\willingness to account for the carrying costs of the earth itself, and for the proper values of things like clean air, earth, and water ... then i wholeheartedly emplore folks to ask for stronger social and environental accounting practices and standards.
We could go a long way towards implementing corporate reform via any untold number of legal paths ... ASSUMING the people got off their ass and did something about it.
But the main "idea" i see most people in general having is "Oh Shit. Lets wait for their to be a giant crisis, and let the people responsible spoon feed us an answer." or alternatively, "Oh shit. We're in a crisis. Lets OVERTHROW EVERY INSTITUTION WE HAVE, because SURELY that must be the problem. Democracy doesn't work. Markets don't work. Freedom doesn't work. Blah Blah"
But NO ONE ever seems to want to simply take a level headed re-evaluation of the situation and say, "okay, what worked, what ISN'T working, where did we go wrong? where do we go from here? How can we make improvements, and how can we maintain the same level of rights and freedoms afforded us by our great forefathers?"
Thats all i'm saying.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Seriously, I have no idea....even in a trade-and-barter, resource based economy, people would attempt to hoard the most valuable resources...
You're right, the human species needs to evolve for this kind of system to work, because the greed would not just disappear if money did.
I can definitely see a lot going on in our systems that work and why.
Personally, I'm not for overthrowing systems at all. I trust that systems are doing exactly what they are doing for exacting evolutionary purposes all the time. I'm for walking away from what I can no longer support. For me, that our societies are so focused on being ego-driven and money-centred at the expense of being healthy, happy and whole just doesn't work. And I therefore act accordingly. And how that plays out in practical applications is merely along the lines of only aligning with what works for me in each moment, which may even be similar to what you propose with your level-headed evaluation.
Ultimately, any "objective" assessment is an illusion. Any new imposed system from without would be a grave error. It all comes down to how we personally choose in the moment, on all levels, including our intentions and philosophical direction. We're either adaptive or maladaptive. I'm personally always excited to see people moving in healthy directions and proposing win-win situations that do not come at the expense of something/someone else in the whole of it. As we progress, we learn this is the only option.
Personally, I'm not for closing down any system, or imposing controls on anyone, corporations included. As with all things, I support more natural and less authoritarian responses. As long as we continue to support those who abuse the earth, we will reap what we sow. When we've evolved to a point that we no longer sustain the unsustainable, then we'll know we're heading in the right direction.
I very much agree that the greed and other evils we see are not attributable to the monetary system, or even religion, but instead to humans. Its the fact that we deny our own dark side and then project it elsewhere that plays a big role in our perceiving ourselves as separate from the whole, with all that entails, such as hoarding, killing etc.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!