For those of you who support dea enforcement:

know1

Just because it's "natural" does not mean that it's not a toxin.

melodious

You can give me better reasoning that this, can't you? i wanna share notes about the C. You see, k-1, it's now been 48 hours with this migraine. I have had this symptom for over 10 years now. I really do purge poisons out of my body every 4-6 weeks. Before I stopped using pharmi meds, it would be every 2-3 weeks. So, please elaborate on your knowledge of the C......and in the meantime, have a great day.......

chopitdown

know1 wrote:

Just because it's "natural" does not mean that it's not a toxin.

amen to that

know1

melodious wrote:

You can give me better reasoning that this, can't you? i wanna share notes about the C. You see, k-1, it's now been 48 hours with this migraine. I have had this symptom for over 10 years now. I really do purge poisons out of my body every 4-6 weeks. Before I stopped using pharmi meds, it would be every 2-3 weeks. So, please elaborate on your knowledge of the C......and in the meantime, have a great day.......

My company does extensive work with a continuing medical education company whose main specialty is HCV. I'm pretty familiar with the current standards of care (pegylated interferons) and emerging standards of care, and their side effects.

melodious

know1 wrote:

My company does extensive work with a continuing medical education company whose main specialty is HCV. I'm pretty familiar with the current standards of care (pegylated interferons) and emerging standards of care, and their side effects.

do tell more. I already deduced that your knowlege is work-related, not patient related, so tell me, k-1 all about this stuff. I have chosen the holistic path. LIke I said earlier, milk thistle, b-complex, brewers yeast, ginseng, and herb...These are interactive herbs that work together to cleanse the systme. I have given up meat completely as beef and pork, contain so much ammonia, I cannot process it. Good stress and bad stress both have horrible exhausting effect on my system. If either gets out of balance, then it's migraine headache time...

and do you deny that cannabis is major part of earth's food chain? do you deny that god put this stuff here for man to use, way before sophistication of technology ? thanks k-1 for talking to me..

amen to that

it's been a long time, chop, chop....but, again, you could give me more than a supportive comment. how can you chop down the idea that god created cannabis, and reefer madness discreditted it?

oh,....yeah...and by the way....i have a close relative from Guadalajara. She is in her 60's. She is old schoool, traditional Mexicano lady who is very conservative. She has the rhematoid arthritis. Last year she came to U.S. to visit and asked me for a flower. I asked her why? She told me that she was going to put it in alcohol for 3 weeks, so she could annoint it to her aching joints. Three weeks went by, and her family members called me to tell me that Mosalia was using that tonic on her joints. The younger family memembers were appalled, but she kept saying it helped her. She has been back in Mexico for over a year now, but the family called and said that Mosalia was growing her own weed, for her aches....So, if traditional folks use it in other countries as legitimate means? Why, in the USofA, is it so demonized? Could it be that capitalism really doesn't exist in Amerika? Could it be that only preferred capitalism exists here? Thanks for discussion.

know1

melodious wrote:

and do you deny that cannabis is major part of earth's food chain? do you deny that god put this stuff here for man to use, way before sophistication of technology ? thanks k-1 for talking to me..

No I do not deny that cannabis exists naturally on earth. Nor would I deny that dirt or excrement exists naturally on the earth. Furthermore, how many animals burn things as part of their diet or consumption? In my mind, when you burn the leaves, you are altering the "natural" state and it's basically no different than any other drug that has been manufactured.

The point is, it may help ease the side effects of other drugs, but there are other drugs you can take for those. As you said, you CHOOSE not to.

melodious

know1 wrote:

No I do not deny that cannabis exists naturally on earth. Nor would I deny that dirt or excrement exists naturally on the earth.

why would you use ecrement as an example?

Furthermore, how many animals burn things as part of their diet or consumption?

you always have a way of catching me up, with reasoning. but, i bet, animals eat it in raw form, as well...i mean, i could eat the bud and probably experience even more psychotropic tendencies; so, are you saying that grinding down flour and mixing it with eggs and sugar, is unnatural as well?

In my mind, when you burn the leaves, you are altering the "natural" state and it's basically no different than any other drug that has been manufactured.

and in your mind, the only clean drugs are ones fabricated by man? if you were selling herbs in an health-food store, would you be singing a different tune?

The point is, it may help ease the side effects of other drugs, but there are other drugs you can take for those. As you said, you CHOOSE not to.

and so why don't you support my choice, as i have always supported your perspectives on an individual perspective.???? why don't people support both alternatives? I support medicines that are necessary. Like this a.m when I had to take my 3rd Imitrex for the weekend. I feel like a junkie having to take something to allow me to function even minimally. can you respect choices of others, if there is no harm done to others?

rod_farva

haha, that's funny.

I'd say melodious is entitled to any of the benefits that cannabis may provide him in his battle against Hepatitis C. end of story.
psychological, physical, recreational, whatever.

If the patients want to try it, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to. It sure isn't going to kill them.

On a related note, apparently the people from SAFER will be participating in another televised debate on Wednesday, this time with this chick:
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2005/04/20/andreaBarthwellSnakeOilSal.html

I don't understand this, why doesn't she just quit? Is anyone going to listen to her knowing that she was speaking out against medical marijuana while working as a consultant for a pharm. company that's trying to sell Savitex(TM), a drug MADE OUT OF MARIJUANA?

I'm no great political strategy mind, but if I were campaigning against marijuana in any way, I would avoid throwing someone with such a conflict of interest out there to argue for my side.

I would assume that even someone that has no opinion either way on marijuana would be able to spot the hypocrisy when they hear about her past. They're better off just getting some random dude out there to regurgitate the myths.

Apparently it's ok to ingest medical marijuana if you purchase it from Drug companies, but not ok if you grow it in your garden.
And for your intoxication needs, drink beer.

know1

melodious wrote:

why would you use ecrement as an example?
you always have a way of catching me up, with reasoning. but, i bet, animals eat it in raw form, as well...i mean, i could eat the bud and probably experience even more psychotropic tendencies; so, are you saying that grinding down flour and mixing it with eggs and sugar, is unnatural as well?

and in your mind, the only clean drugs are ones fabricated by man? if you were selling herbs in an health-food store, would you be singing a different tune?

and so why don't you support my choice, as i have always supported your perspectives on an individual perspective.???? why don't people support both alternatives? I support medicines that are necessary. Like this a.m when I had to take my 3rd Imitrex for the weekend. I feel like a junkie having to take something to allow me to function even minimally. can you respect choices of others, if there is no harm done to others?

You're reading me wrong. I'm trying to point out that you always say it's natural and "put here by God", but the fact is that you alter it similarly to the ways that "unnatural" drugs are altered.

I'm not against you taking it at all. I really do not have a problem with it being legalized. But I also recognize that you're choosing it over other drugs that are available and have been shown to be efficacious.

I'm not arguing agains your entire position. Just pointing out that I see contradictions in some of your points.

chopitdown

melodious wrote:

it's been a long time, chop, chop....but, again, you could give me more than a supportive comment. how can you chop down the idea that god created cannabis, and reefer madness discreditted it?

so we meet again I was mostly responding to know1's statement about natural equating to good and healthy. All too often people believe that b/c it's natural it's automatically better or good for you. As for medical marijuana I believe there are cases where it should be used absolutely. I'm not sure about it's curative effects but I know that for some things (cancer, AIDS) it can help manage symptoms very well. I wish it could be used much like morphine. There is def merit to a lot of natural rememdies, we don't know why they work, but they do. My pet peeve with all natural goes back to people saying, well since it's on earth or it's all natural it is by default good (or not bad) for you.

melodious

rod_farva wrote:

haha, that's funny.

I'd say melodious is entitled to any of the benefits that cannabis may provide him in his battle against Hepatitis C. end of story.
psychological, physical, recreational, whatever.

If the patients want to try it, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to. It sure isn't going to kill them.

On a related note, apparently the people from SAFER will be participating in another televised debate on Wednesday, this time with this chick:
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2005/04/20/andreaBarthwellSnakeOilSal.html

I don't understand this, why doesn't she just quit? Is anyone going to listen to her knowing that she was speaking out against medical marijuana while working as a consultant for a pharm. company that's trying to sell Savitex(TM), a drug MADE OUT OF MARIJUANA?

I'm no great political strategy mind, but if I were campaigning against marijuana in any way, I would avoid throwing someone with such a conflict of interest out there to argue for my side.

I would assume that even someone that has no opinion either way on marijuana would be able to spot the hypocrisy when they hear about her past. They're better off just getting some random dude out there to regurgitate the myths.

Apparently it's ok to ingest medical marijuana if you purchase it from Drug companies, but not ok if you grow it in your garden.
And for your intoxication needs, drink beer.

your points are welcomed, and i might add, that when 1 grows it in their garden, he/she has more influence over what goes into the plant itself. i mean, my grower friend who always prided himself in some great meds, used synthtic fertilizers and herbicides on his garden...until the day , I told him that his meds made me sick and I couldn't ingest it with good conscious. He went to using organic fertilizers ie, k-1's excrements in the form of bat guano....if a person grows it, then he/she can definitely oversee the quality of produce...

melodious

know1 wrote:

You're reading me wrong. I'm trying to point out that you always say it's natural and "put here by God", but the fact is that you alter it similarly to the ways that "unnatural" drugs are altered.

I'm not against you taking it at all. I really do not have a problem with it being legalized. But I also recognize that you're choosing it over other drugs that are available and have been shown to be efficacious.

I'm not arguing agains your entire position. Just pointing out that I see contradictions in some of your points.

well, atleast my attitude is a bit better, aye? contradicting myself is constant issue; i'm growing; and maybe oneday, i can learn to be completely focused...good talking to you though....off to work i go......

melodious

chopitdown wrote:

so we meet again I was mostly responding to know1's statement about natural equating to good and healthy. All too often people believe that b/c it's natural it's automatically better or good for you. As for medical marijuana I believe there are cases where it should be used absolutely. I'm not sure about it's curative effects but I know that for some things (cancer, AIDS) it can help manage symptoms very well. I wish it could be used much like morphine. There is def merit to a lot of natural rememdies, we don't know why they work, but they do. My pet peeve with all natural goes back to people saying, well since it's on earth or it's all natural it is by default good (or not bad) for you.

when i was at ssa doctor getting an exam, they told me that opiates are not as harmful on the liver. he even recommended one to me that isn't bound with acetemetophine; but i didn't believe him until, i went to my doctor and talked about it to him...he even agreed with the doc from ssa, admin...he said, it's not the opiates that hurt, but the compounds that are used with opiates, and then i looked at the chinese who used opium...they still lived, long lives. good to see you too, chop, chop, it down,..........take care and all's i know is that if you vote, no-matter what you believe, make sure it gets counted.....peace to ya...

chopitdown

melodious wrote:

when i was at ssa doctor getting an exam, they told me that opiates are not as harmful on the liver. he even recommended one to me that isn't bound with acetemetophine; but i didn't believe him until, i went to my doctor and talked about it to him...he even agreed with the doc from ssa, admin...he said, it's not the opiates that hurt, but the compounds that are used with opiates, and then i looked at the chinese who used opium...they still lived, long lives. good to see you too, chop, chop, it down,..........take care and all's i know is that if you vote, no-matter what you believe, make sure it gets counted.....peace to ya...

a lot of the synthetic stuff out there is good but it all has its pros and cons...just like the au natural stuff. glad to see you around mel...you can bet your arse i'm voting have a good one.

melodious

i was talking to my partner about your commentary concerning the concept about burning leaves for benefit of health. he reminded me that there is a new evolution concerning ingestion of cannabis and this is called vaporization. i subscribe to one of the medic lists concerning medical cannabis, and i found this note from a person who has asthma, as well;

Hi activist,

I use Q-VAR 40 mg and 80 mg ( just a larger bottle) now, but used to use 2 different steroidal preventatives as well as albuteral. I have been able to cut my use of steroidal (preventative) Asthma meds to 1/4 by using Medical Marijuana. I also found that different strains, with different methods of curing, with different method's of storage matters too. I also think fertilizer's organic and others matter but am still unsure of the nature of the difference other than the organic seems to taste better and have more resin. This too, is a bone of contention among some growers. The use of sulfur burners to control mold and pesticides plays a role too although many would argue that is not the case...but mold matters. The Expectorate "factor" that causes coughs and the spitting up of flem is also a function of strain as every one has had the experience of coughing up powerful marijuana smoke, yet the next joint smooth as silk, not a single cough.

I use a vaporizer too set at just below the point at which it smokes. The Volcano works best for me at about 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 and at 9 it makes me have adverse reactions that are asthma like in nature. These would include coughing up flem and reduced ability to assimilate oxygen properly until I use Q-VAR 40, 80 AND PERHAPS ONE SHOT OF ALBUTERAL. I went from four sprays twice a day to one of the preventative once a day at night, with only occasional use of albuterol.

ok?