fascinating, but extremely sad study...

melodious

believe it or not, i have friends....;)

and one has been studying this global warming thing; is it possibly too late?

i think so, becasue humans have become to value all the things that are only quik fixes as opposed to protecting our ecological environment....

there are many links, so i will post one for today and see if ya want anymore of it....i hope we can raise awareness; becasue if there's life and breath in our bodies, we should be doing something for the future to experience the mere pleasure of sustaining life.


http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725124.500

GirlofPJ

I've heard about this before, it's so scary and sad. I can't believe that some people still deny anything is happening. A big big change has to occur in peoples thinking for us to be able to do something about this.

melodious

start forwarding this stuff to eveyone we know...sort of put that sore thumb out in front line. u.s. gov't certainly doesn't think it's as important as killing the environment. we learned that last year when the nasa scientist's report was editted by prez...americans have to seek outside of the box to get any real info....

thank you for reading.

Jeanwah

We have to take politics out of the global warming issue to get it recognized by the public. First and formost. I'm sick of people not taking our environment seriously. It's not a political issue, it's a world-wide Issue!

GirlofPJ

This situation is really frustrating. (some) People read stuff like this and know about it but still don't bother doing anything, they just leave it up to others or think doing something small doesn't make a difference but it does. It is a world wide issue that will effect every one of us! Hopefully it isn't too late but yeah telling everyone we know about this is a good idea. I'm glad it was in New Scientist and think it was on the news, so maybe something is finally getting through!

Pearl Jam and toast

The Earth will recover if we stop what we're doing..

Of course the further we go without doing anything about it the harder and longer the process will be.

Have faith. The old generation will die off and the new generations will fix it.

melodious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5323964.stm

LikeAnOcean

As much as I dislike what we're doing to the planet, I think we will be long gone before things go back to normal.. I think we're part of its cycle and as doom and gloom as it sounds, we will be our own destruction.. the planet will recover after we are extinct and flurrish for several billion years before our sun eventually dies out and Earth becomes another floating rock in space..

GirlofPJ

LikeAnOcean wrote:

As much as I dislike what we're doing to the planet, I think we will be long gone before things go back to normal.. I think we're part of its cycle and as doom and gloom as it sounds, we will be our own destruction.. the planet will recover after we are extinct and flurrish for several billion years before our sun eventually dies out and Earth becomes another floating rock in space..

I truly believe that. People aren't willing to change so if they don't, like you say, we will be our own destruction. We're the most intelligent species who can do something to make the world we live in better, to help nature and animals grow and flurish but we don't, we destroy everything we come across. That is truly our biggest downfall.

melodious

someone sent this to me and since this is a forum that tries to let people come to thier own decisons, and in name of balance:

http://www.crichton-official.com/fear/

don't worry, i'll be back

melodious

GirlofPJ wrote:

I truly believe that. People aren't willing to change so if they don't, like you say, we will be our own destruction. We're the most intelligent species who can do something to make the world we live in better, to help nature and animals grow and flurish but we don't, we destroy everything we come across. That is truly our biggest downfall.

I truly believe that people aren't willing to give up luxuries at expense of earth. How many here have ridden on a jet ski? (i know that's a minor contributing factor, but after all, they are powered by..............fossil fuels....). How many here are willing to give up smoke stacks of factories that produce household cleaners? I don't remember, but last year at this same board, I read that one of the jammers watched a pregnant neighbor out pulling weeds in her yard immediately after a pest control operator had come to exterminate? Remember those pesty ants? What do you do about them, or any other unwanted pest?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5345184.stm

GirlofPJ

melodious wrote:

I truly believe that people aren't willing to give up luxuries at expense of earth. How many here have ridden on a jet ski? (i know that's a minor contributing factor, but after all, they are powered by..............fossil fuels....). How many here are willing to give up smoke stacks of factories that produce household cleaners? I don't remember, but last year at this same board, I read that one of the jammers watched a pregnant neighbor out pulling weeds in her yard immediately after a pest control operator had come to exterminate? Remember those pesty ants? What do you do about them, or any other unwanted pest?

Just took ages replying and the battery on my computer went dead and i lost it all!! i was just saying that there are loads of natural alternatives like vinegar and lemon juice that people could use but they don't because it takes time! people want things straight away and don't like waiting. This year we had ants at the side of our house and just left them to it and they eventually left! if they hadn't it wouldn't matter because they weren't causing any harm. I don't think people realise that doing small things could make a BIG difference like recycling, using environmentally friendly products and walking! The government could do more to make people do stuff like that but they don't want to put money into it. If they put as much money and effort into doing something about global warming as they do into the war then i bet there would be no global warming to worry about.

Found these:
http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn10071-environmental-damage-highlighted-by-google-earth.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10072-winter-arctic-sea-ice-in-drastic-decline.html

surferdude

GirlofPJ wrote:

We're the most intelligent species who can do something to make the world we live in better, to help nature and animals grow and flurish but we don't, we destroy everything we come across.

I think it is the height of arrogance to think we can make the natural world better and "help nature and animals grow and flurish".

We cannot do anything regarding nature better than nature does. All we can do as the most intelligent species is find ways to lessen our impact on nature while improving our living conditions. Every place we have gone and tried to manage the eco-system has been an abysmal failure. Managing an eco-system is far beyond our capabilities.

GirlofPJ

surferdude wrote:

I think it is the height of arrogance to think we can make the natural world better and "help nature and animals grow and flurish".

We cannot do anything regarding nature better than nature does. All we can do as the most intelligent species is find ways to lessen our impact on nature while improving our living conditions. Every place we have gone and tried to manage the eco-system has been an abysmal failure. Managing an eco-system is far beyond our capabilities.

Its "the height of arrogance" to want to help nature survive instead of pumping it full of shit? really!? If you'd read what i'd said more carefully you'd have seen i said-"we can do something to make the world we live in better, to help nature and animals grow and flurish" that means taking more care with the chemicals we use, not chopping all the trees down, and not killing animals to the extent that we are wasteful. What you said is what i said but phrased differently-i didn't say anything about managing eco-systems. I agree with what you put.

RockinInCanada

surferdude wrote:

I think it is the height of arrogance to think we can make the natural world better and "help nature and animals grow and flurish".

We cannot do anything regarding nature better than nature does. All we can do as the most intelligent species is find ways to lessen our impact on nature while improving our living conditions. Every place we have gone and tried to manage the eco-system has been an abysmal failure. Managing an eco-system is far beyond our capabilities.

I think it is arrogant to continue harming the environment simply because of profit lines and that fun capatilistic stuff.....

Eg. Bring back paper bags and remove all plastic bags....the average plastic grocery bag has a life of less than 10 minutes before it's use it gone....

Pearl Jam and toast

LikeAnOcean wrote:

As much as I dislike what we're doing to the planet, I think we will be long gone before things go back to normal.. I think we're part of its cycle and as doom and gloom as it sounds, we will be our own destruction.. the planet will recover after we are extinct and flurrish for several billion years before our sun eventually dies out and Earth becomes another floating rock in space..

Well that's the way nature would have it, but remember our planet hasn't (as far as we know) encountered an intelligent organism like us before. We might be able to outlast the Earth.

Dream big.

RockinInCanada

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Well that's the way nature would have it, but remember our planet hasn't (as far as we know) encountered an intelligent organism like us before. We might be able to outlast the Earth.

Dream big.

When we cannot even get through problems with discussion as of yet and our primary way of settling disputes is fighting I hardly believe we will outlast this planet.....

Pearl Jam and toast

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

When we cannot even get through problems with discussion as of yet and our primary way of settling disputes is fighting I hardly believe we will outlast this planet.....

that's why I say dream big

Maybe we'll be able to figure things out eventually. Think how far we've come since fuedalism.

RockinInCanada

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

that's why I say dream big

Maybe we'll be able to figure things out eventually. Think how far we've come since fuedalism.

Still were fighting like fools than and still fighting like fools now....I would love to see things done differently however its going take a lot of people changing their outlook of how to handle things to make things better....

However back to topic I would like to see platic grocery bags banned.....stupid as it may sound it would reduce lots of waste....

surferdude

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

However back to topic I would like to see platic grocery bags banned.....stupid as it may sound it would reduce lots of waste....

Well platsic bags sure can't be replaced with paper bags. Have you done an environmental impact of outlawing plastic bags would be? What is to replace plastic bags? Did you know in countries that have adopted a plastic bag tax that the sale of untaxed small plastic garbage bags skyrocketed.

I'm all for eco-friendly business rules but lets have them backed by fact. What will a non-plastic bag world look like? What impact will those alternatives have on the environment?

RockinInCanada

surferdude wrote:

Well platsic bags sure can't be replaced with paper bags. Have you done an environmental impact of outlawing plastic bags would be? What is to replace plastic bags? Did you know in countries that have adopted a plastic bag tax that the sale of untaxed small plastic garbage bags skyrocketed.

I'm all for eco-friendly business rules but lets have them backed by fact. What will a non-plastic bag world look like? What impact will those alternatives have on the environment?

Better than a plastic bag world....like someone said...dream big....we lived without plastic bags all of a sudden we are tied to them now forever?

Like I said when economics (which is human only and puts us before the planet) takes priority over environmental impact that is a sign of arrogance....

Maybe if we devised some sort of way to properly recycle and re-use plastic bags things would be different but most are tossed which is essentially throwing away money.....I dunno I know its a pipe dream but I like that dream....

Pearl Jam and toast

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Better than a plastic bag world....like someone said...dream big....we lived without plastic bags all of a sudden we are tied to them now forever?

Like I said when economics (which is human only and puts us before the planet) takes priority over environmental impact that is a sign of arrogance....

Maybe if we devised some sort of way to properly recycle and re-use plastic bags things would be different but most are tossed which is essentially throwing away money.....I dunno I know its a pipe dream but I like that dream....

I understand what Surferdude is saying, but i have to agree that moving plastics out of our world as much as possible is probably a good idea.

surferdude

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I understand what Surferdude is saying, but i have to agree that moving plastics out of our world as much as possible is probably a good idea.

It probably is but use science to prove it. Telling me to stop doing something because it is harmful without knowing what impact the alternative has is crazy. Do your homework first.

I know that I re-use every plastic bag I get at store as a kitchen garbage bag. So do most people I know. How will outlawing plastic bags help in this case?

I bike to work part out of concern for the environment and part out of health concerns. But I do know that my bike still has an impact on the environment, so does my increased food consumption. I know I'm probably having a favorable impact on my carbon imprint but couldn't say for sure. This lack of macro-level knowledge of our true impact on the environment is a real failure of the eco-movement.

Pearl Jam and toast

surferdude wrote:

It probably is but use science to prove it. Telling me to stop doing something because it is harmful without knowing what impact the alternative has is crazy. Do your homework first.

I know that I re-use every plastic bag I get at store as a kitchen garbage bag. So do most people I know. How will outlawing plastic bags help in this case?

Yeah there's a lot of technicality type issues around that. (I re-use them like that too ^_^ )

surferdude

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Yeah there's a lot of technicality type issues around that. (I re-use them like that too ^_^ )

The eco-movement for all it's supposed science based reasoning relies on a scary amount of emotional propoganda.

Just look at their silence this summer and fall over the lack of devastating hurricanes on the Atlantic coast.

melodious

surferdude wrote:

I think it is the height of arrogance to think we can make the natural world better and "help nature and animals grow and flurish".

can you explain this a bit more? u see, i don't think gopj is being arrogant when she says what she says...u cannot know her intentions as well, unless you know a human as yourself; and that's always variable in itself..

We cannot do anything regarding nature better than nature does.

i like how you use we. however, you would be surpriese how much of an impact a single person can make...have you ever seen those psychological studies where the goal is to break group think..it has been written somewhere and u know i'm not one for citations, that it only takes one strong individual to break up a crowed..

All we can do as the most intelligent species is find ways to lessen our impact on nature while improving our living conditions. Every place we have gone and tried to manage the eco-system has been an abysmal failure. Managing an eco-system is far beyond our capabilities.

the dangerous word is manage; it sounds like a business; once again not in sync with natures' way. we as humans learn by mimic; how do you think this monkey see/monkey do phenomena began?

melodious

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Better than a plastic bag world....like someone said...dream big....we lived without plastic bags all of a sudden we are tied to them now forever?

Like I said when economics (which is human only and puts us before the planet) takes priority over environmental impact that is a sign of arrogance....

Maybe if we devised some sort of way to properly recycle and re-use plastic bags things would be different but most are tossed which is essentially throwing away money.....I dunno I know its a pipe dream but I like that dream....

u know i have always loved you, ric....i might add one more comment that s/m gave me a couple weeks back....plastic bags will become a thing of the past as our oil based economy diminishes....can you please tell me what plastic is a by product of......haven't you noticed that more and more grocery stores are going back to paper bags? maybe hemp would be the answer...it was used throughout all the ages and could even be an answer to balance of this methane leak in the siberian tundra....good to be able to contribute and particpate in the same thread, ric.....;)

Hoon

Um....anyone ever hear of a cloth bag for food?

Maybe P.J. should sell them in their "goods" section.

GirlofPJ

Hoon wrote:

Um....anyone ever hear of a cloth bag for food?

Maybe P.J. should sell them in their "goods" section.

Cloth bag sounds good. I always re-use my bags but i think we need a different material. Cloth would last for ages aswell, i like the hemp idea too! Another thing with recycling would be to reduce all the plastic that covers food. It just seems like such a waste and manufacturers don't always clearly label if it can be recycled or not.

Jeanwah

Hoon wrote:

Um....anyone ever hear of a cloth bag for food?

Maybe P.J. should sell them in their "goods" section.

That's a good idea. And I like the hemp too. Those plastic grocery bags have only been around for the past 20-25 years. Everything was paper (except trash bags) in the 70s, who says we can't do that again? And the way baggers in the grocery store put one or two items in a bag and give them to you is a waste. I always have to tell them to fill them up as much as possible. The stores should be more waste conscience.

melodious

maybe the "jammers' could atleast commit to asking for alternative to plastic bags when shopping? What a great suggestion.....!!!!!!