When people give reason and rational as to why others kidnap/blowup/ decapitate/ bomb/ whatever. I dont think i have to IMPLY jackshit.
just because people talk about reasons why terrorists or whoever do shit, doesn't mean that they are jumping to the defense of them. What is wrong with trying to learn why fucked up people do screwed up stuff?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
just because people talk about reasons why terrorists or whoever do shit, doesn't mean that they are jumping to the defense of them. What is wrong with trying to learn why fucked up people do screwed up stuff?
There is nothing wrong w/ that at all. And for the most part, i understand and agree w/ the reasons that some people give.
I posted this article, then wondered if someone would provide a reason, in a defensive stance, as to why the baptist church does this.
The reason i singled out liberals in the first post is because they are the ones on this board that always jump to the defense of 'freedom-fighters', 'terrrrrrists', suicide bombers....err i mean freedom fighters w/ no other options....and the like.
Not trying to start a "political debate", more of a "i want to understand why you think the way you do because to me you sound like you're trying extremely hard to impress ppl on this board" debate. *whew*
...
Trying to figure out WHY someone would go through all the trouble of flying a hi-jacked plane into an office building is a tough proposition. And trying to figure that out is NOT siding with the terrorist.... just as trying to figure out WHY a gunman would shoot unarmed school girls is NOT sympathizing with the shooter.
...
And you cannot equate the fighters in Iraq with terrorists. They are living in an occupied country. Iraq and terrorism have nothing in common except that the actions there are creating more and more people willing to figure out some way of getting a nuclear device and detonating it over here.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
And you cannot equate the fighters in Iraq with terrorists. They are living in an occupied country. Iraq and terrorism have nothing in common except that the actions there are creating more and more people willing to figure out some way of getting a nuclear device and detonating it over here.
True, at least with regards to the Iraqi fighters. The foreign fighters are there with different motives.
And with the exception of Cosmo, you guys are putting words in truroute's mouth. He is not equating looking for causes of terrorism with sympathy. Honestly? I've seen people on here argue that U.S. foreign policy contributes to terrorism, and these people were NOT being sympathetic. This is all well and good. I have occasionally seen people do something more like what truroute is suggesting, though ... Making excuses for highly pathological behavior. Terrorism cannot be reduced down to one cause, it is an overdetermined phenomenon. Saying or implying that the sole cause of terrorism is American behavior is just as misguided as saying that U.S. policies play no role.
True, at least with regards to the Iraqi fighters. The foreign fighters are there with different motives.
...
Foriegn fighters. I alkways liked this term.
Hmmmm... are Americans fighting in Iraq considered as 'Foriegn Fighters'... or does Iraq belong to us now? We broke it... we bought it, I guess.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Foriegn fighters. I alkways liked this term.
Hmmmm... are Americans fighting in Iraq considered as 'Foriegn Fighters'... or does Iraq belong to us now? We broke it... we bought it, I guess.
People from other Middle Eastern nations have absolutely no business fighting in Iraq, especially when you consider that they kill far more Iraqis than they kill Americans.
And yeah, my view is that the Americans have no business there either.
No one here that I know approves of or excuses murder by any individual or group. Understanding the motive doesn't excuse the crime.
I dont think anyone here approves of any type of killing/maiming/bombing what-have-you.
I asked the question about rationalizing w/ 'extremists' because almost everyone here would probally think the baptists group were a bunch of morons w/out anyone giving the time of day as to "why they do it". When all they do is protest and not cause physical harm to anyone.-- While at the same time, muslim extremeism (sp) is often alloted a few pages of MT threads discussing why they do bomb/ kill/ maim/ kidnap etc. And sometimes its borderline sympathy IMHO, or just agreeing w/ them out of spite.
I dont think anyone here approves of any type of killing/maiming/bombing what-have-you.
I asked the question about rationalizing w/ 'extremists' because almost everyone here would probally think the baptists group were a bunch of morons w/out anyone giving the time of day as to "why they do it". When all they do is protest and not cause physical harm to anyone.-- While at the same time, muslim extremeism (sp) is often alloted a few pages of MT threads discussing why they do bomb/ kill/ maim/ kidnap etc. And sometimes its borderline sympathy IMHO, or just agreeing w/ them out of spite.
...
We know why the Phelps group does what they do. We live in America and have a pretty good understanding of Christianity and how people can take the Bible and warp it to justify the hatred of others.
We are not so informed about Islam. I admit, I didn't bother to look into it prior to September 11, 2001... didn't really care to. I also admit i still don't know much about Islam, the Middle East's culture, arabic culture, Persian culture, customs, beliefs, etc... But, at least I'm trying to understand... understand what hatred drives a person to hate me so much.... he is willing to kill himself in order to kill me.
No one sympathizes with terrorist. 'Terror Apologists' is a Bush Administration term that FOX News broadcasts to keep us divided along poliitical lines. Terror apologists exist in the same realm as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Given how many times I've read people on here making excuses for all sorts of bad behavior (especially from certain religious groups that shall go unnamed), I kinda see your point. I don't think you'll get many takers, though.
Dude...if your talking about muslims this actually goes to prove a point. REGARDLESS of RELIGIOUS preference idiots are idiots. If this was a muslim group we'd have a bunch of idiots spouting "i thought muslim is a religion of peace" If this groups of idiots was in the right enviroment I would not put it past them to strap on a bomb. If they can justify through religion that it's ok to protest funerals and "hate fags" then strapping on a bomb and blowing up a bunch of "fags" is not that far off.
I dont think anyone here approves of any type of killing/maiming/bombing what-have-you.
I asked the question about rationalizing w/ 'extremists' because almost everyone here would probally think the baptists group were a bunch of morons w/out anyone giving the time of day as to "why they do it". When all they do is protest and not cause physical harm to anyone.-- While at the same time, muslim extremeism (sp) is often alloted a few pages of MT threads discussing why they do bomb/ kill/ maim/ kidnap etc. And sometimes its borderline sympathy IMHO, or just agreeing w/ them out of spite.
It is wise to understand the reasoning of violent actions that happen to be killing our troops and many innocent people. If you never address the cause then the problem will never end. It would be like trying to cure AIDS by simply using condoms. It's not going to go anywhere until you address the root of the problem. There is no agreeing with killers or sympathizing with them. It is wrong and no one has said different. And feeling sympathy for the situation in the middle east and it's people who are suffering does not equal sympathizing with terrorists, no matter how badly you want there to be a connection.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It is wise to understand the reasoning of violent actions that happen to be killing our troops and many innocent people. If you never address the cause then the problem will never end. It would be like trying to cure AIDS by simply using condoms. It's not going to go anywhere until you address the root of the problem. There is no agreeing with killers or sympathizing with them. It is wrong and no one has said different. And feeling sympathy for the situation in the middle east and it's people who are suffering does not equal sympathizing with terrorists, no matter how badly you want there to be a connection.
If we're going to legalize torture for certain people, use it on them.
I'm a pretty non-violent person, but if I had a chance to take a shot at one of them, I would.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I'm a pretty non-violent person, but if I had a chance to take a shot at one of them, I would.
I know! I was only half-kidding.
can we at least kick them out of the country? like put them off a raft and push them out to sea? i just have a hard time accepting the existance of such people.
I mean, ok, the guy who went psycho on these poor amish girls is obviously worse, but he's dead, and if he wasn't he'd go to jail. I guess it just bothers me that there's no punishment for these people.
Is there ever a time to quit wondering why they have so much hate, why they do the shit they do, and trying to find a reason for it all and just say "fuck'em, who cares?" What would it take?
Just a question, I mean it would seem to me that w/ the history of that area and what is happening present day, even w/ what they're doing to themselves, nothing will ever change.
The Westboro Baptist Church -- described as a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League -- has made a name for itself by picketing the funerals of U.S. troops killed in Iraq. The troops are dying as punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuality, the group says.
The Westboro group says the Amish school girls were "killed by a madman in punishment for Gov. Ed Rendell's blasphemous sins against Westboro Baptist Church.
utterly ridiculous and shameful...and it is groups like this that give religion and the religious in this country, a bad name. the 'extremes' on either side always do. bunch of nutters, that simple. also, absolutely shameful to show such disrespect for the dead.
Is there ever a time to quit wondering why they have so much hate, why they do the shit they do, and trying to find a reason for it all and just say "fuck'em, who cares?" What would it take?
Just a question, I mean it would seem to me that w/ the history of that area and what is happening present day, even w/ what they're doing to themselves, nothing will ever change.
Live a day in their shoes and you may thank your American butt where you LUCKED out to be where you were born.....just as I am thank-ful for mine...but I will never condone the actons your country takes....
Is there ever a time to quit wondering why they have so much hate, why they do the shit they do, and trying to find a reason for it all and just say "fuck'em, who cares?" What would it take?
Just a question, I mean it would seem to me that w/ the history of that area and what is happening present day, even w/ what they're doing to themselves, nothing will ever change.
Yeah when we become the Nazis! Think about what you're saying.
can we at least kick them out of the country? like put them off a raft and push them out to sea? i just have a hard time accepting the existance of such people.
I mean, ok, the guy who went psycho on these poor amish girls is obviously worse, but he's dead, and if he wasn't he'd go to jail. I guess it just bothers me that there's no punishment for these people.
I am glad I live in a country where these people can say what they want. IMO, the alternative of government regulated speech is far worse. No matter how distasteful their message is, I fully support their ability to protest.
Comments
Yes we explain WHY the terrorists hate America and attack us, therefor you imply we side with the terrorists? Give me a break.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
now that's just plain crazy talk...why find the root of a problem when you can blame liberals for everything....
just because people talk about reasons why terrorists or whoever do shit, doesn't mean that they are jumping to the defense of them. What is wrong with trying to learn why fucked up people do screwed up stuff?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
You're right. We should just leave it up to others to tell us they hate us "Just for being Americans"...
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
You really like that word imply dont you? I didnt say you 'sided' w/ anyone. Find another stone to stand on please.
Again, you guys love to gang up on people that dont agree w/ your ideals. I did not 'blame liberals' for anything. RTFT
Who is implying anything? (Yes, in cases like yours, I like to use the word imply, because that's what youre doing when you say)
"they (liberals) are the ones on this board that always jump to the defense of 'freedom-fighters', 'terrrrrrists', suicide bombers...."
Yes, you didn't say we "sided" with the terrorists, just that we "defend" them, and how is that different in your eyes?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
There is nothing wrong w/ that at all. And for the most part, i understand and agree w/ the reasons that some people give.
I posted this article, then wondered if someone would provide a reason, in a defensive stance, as to why the baptist church does this.
Apperently someone got thier butt hurt.
Trying to figure out WHY someone would go through all the trouble of flying a hi-jacked plane into an office building is a tough proposition. And trying to figure that out is NOT siding with the terrorist.... just as trying to figure out WHY a gunman would shoot unarmed school girls is NOT sympathizing with the shooter.
...
And you cannot equate the fighters in Iraq with terrorists. They are living in an occupied country. Iraq and terrorism have nothing in common except that the actions there are creating more and more people willing to figure out some way of getting a nuclear device and detonating it over here.
Hail, Hail!!!
True, at least with regards to the Iraqi fighters. The foreign fighters are there with different motives.
Foriegn fighters. I alkways liked this term.
Hmmmm... are Americans fighting in Iraq considered as 'Foriegn Fighters'... or does Iraq belong to us now? We broke it... we bought it, I guess.
Hail, Hail!!!
People from other Middle Eastern nations have absolutely no business fighting in Iraq, especially when you consider that they kill far more Iraqis than they kill Americans.
And yeah, my view is that the Americans have no business there either.
Scumbags yes.. but what qualifies someone as semi-intelligent - our country is run by an elected evil scumbag.
No one here that I know approves of or excuses murder by any individual or group. Understanding the motive doesn't excuse the crime.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I dont think anyone here approves of any type of killing/maiming/bombing what-have-you.
I asked the question about rationalizing w/ 'extremists' because almost everyone here would probally think the baptists group were a bunch of morons w/out anyone giving the time of day as to "why they do it". When all they do is protest and not cause physical harm to anyone.-- While at the same time, muslim extremeism (sp) is often alloted a few pages of MT threads discussing why they do bomb/ kill/ maim/ kidnap etc. And sometimes its borderline sympathy IMHO, or just agreeing w/ them out of spite.
We know why the Phelps group does what they do. We live in America and have a pretty good understanding of Christianity and how people can take the Bible and warp it to justify the hatred of others.
We are not so informed about Islam. I admit, I didn't bother to look into it prior to September 11, 2001... didn't really care to. I also admit i still don't know much about Islam, the Middle East's culture, arabic culture, Persian culture, customs, beliefs, etc... But, at least I'm trying to understand... understand what hatred drives a person to hate me so much.... he is willing to kill himself in order to kill me.
No one sympathizes with terrorist. 'Terror Apologists' is a Bush Administration term that FOX News broadcasts to keep us divided along poliitical lines. Terror apologists exist in the same realm as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
Hail, Hail!!!
Dude...if your talking about muslims this actually goes to prove a point. REGARDLESS of RELIGIOUS preference idiots are idiots. If this was a muslim group we'd have a bunch of idiots spouting "i thought muslim is a religion of peace" If this groups of idiots was in the right enviroment I would not put it past them to strap on a bomb. If they can justify through religion that it's ok to protest funerals and "hate fags" then strapping on a bomb and blowing up a bunch of "fags" is not that far off.
It is wise to understand the reasoning of violent actions that happen to be killing our troops and many innocent people. If you never address the cause then the problem will never end. It would be like trying to cure AIDS by simply using condoms. It's not going to go anywhere until you address the root of the problem. There is no agreeing with killers or sympathizing with them. It is wrong and no one has said different. And feeling sympathy for the situation in the middle east and it's people who are suffering does not equal sympathizing with terrorists, no matter how badly you want there to be a connection.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Nicely stated!
If we're going to legalize torture for certain people, use it on them.
I'm a pretty non-violent person, but if I had a chance to take a shot at one of them, I would.
I know! I was only half-kidding.
can we at least kick them out of the country? like put them off a raft and push them out to sea? i just have a hard time accepting the existance of such people.
I mean, ok, the guy who went psycho on these poor amish girls is obviously worse, but he's dead, and if he wasn't he'd go to jail. I guess it just bothers me that there's no punishment for these people.
Just a question, I mean it would seem to me that w/ the history of that area and what is happening present day, even w/ what they're doing to themselves, nothing will ever change.
The Westboro group says the Amish school girls were "killed by a madman in punishment for Gov. Ed Rendell's blasphemous sins against Westboro Baptist Church.
utterly ridiculous and shameful...and it is groups like this that give religion and the religious in this country, a bad name. the 'extremes' on either side always do. bunch of nutters, that simple. also, absolutely shameful to show such disrespect for the dead.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Live a day in their shoes and you may thank your American butt where you LUCKED out to be where you were born.....just as I am thank-ful for mine...but I will never condone the actons your country takes....
Yeah when we become the Nazis! Think about what you're saying.