Criminalizing Home Schoolers
LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
Posts: 6,097
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080308/us_time/criminalizinghomeschoolers
Parents of the approximately 200,000 home-schooled children in California are reeling from the possibility that they may have to shutter their classrooms - and go back to school themselves - if they want to continue teaching their own kids. On Feb. 28, Judge H. Walter Croskey of the Second District Court of Appeals in Los Angeles ruled that children ages six to 18 may be taught only by credentialed teachers in public or private schools - or at home by Mom and Dad, but only if they have a teaching degree. Citing state law that goes back to the early 1950s, Croskey declared that "California courts have held that under provisions in the Education Code, parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children." Furthermore, the judge wrote, if instructors teach without credentials they will be subject to criminal action.
Parents of the approximately 200,000 home-schooled children in California are reeling from the possibility that they may have to shutter their classrooms - and go back to school themselves - if they want to continue teaching their own kids. On Feb. 28, Judge H. Walter Croskey of the Second District Court of Appeals in Los Angeles ruled that children ages six to 18 may be taught only by credentialed teachers in public or private schools - or at home by Mom and Dad, but only if they have a teaching degree. Citing state law that goes back to the early 1950s, Croskey declared that "California courts have held that under provisions in the Education Code, parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children." Furthermore, the judge wrote, if instructors teach without credentials they will be subject to criminal action.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Now THAT is some fucking MAJOR bullshit.
I dunno if this idiot judge is talking about the California constitution or what, but according to the US Constitution, i'm pretty sure the 9th and 10th Amendments would tell this judge to go fuck himself.
In other words, i'm pretty damn sure this would be a right retained by the citizens.
Considering the constitution gives the government NO right to govern childhood education, it makes this argument look even more like a crock of shit.
:mad:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I have my own reservations about homeschooling (especially for grades 6 and above), but criminalizing it? C'mon...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The results speak for themselves.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i will say that most home schoolers I've met after high school are socially retarded.
Hilarious... I agree though.
I agree with the judge in that if a parent is going to turn their child into a "social retard" they should at least have some sort of training in teaching.
"Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
Or at least be able to prove that they know what they are talking about when they are teaching their kids. I mean I know a lot of people who speak and write really badly (myself included sometime) and I can only imagine how bad it would be if those people are teaching their kids grammer.
Not to mention even the dumbest parent could probably teach their child up to what grade 5 and still have their kid meet minimum standards. But then after that what happens when you were taught by someone not very smart who was only able to teach you the bare minimum and not able to go any further than that even if you wanted to excel? Teaching higher levels at home is going to be a problem, and it will be more of a problem if you are sent to a real school since you only learned the minimum to get by.
I agree... how many parents would be able to effectively teach their kids Trigonomitry, Calculus, Physics, etc.?
I understand K-6 where you are learning more basic math, reading comprehension/grammar, etc., Most somewhat intelligent parents could pull that off if they put effort into it.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
“ A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare."
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/B192878.PDF
Hard to figure why anyone would want to homeschool, especially when the only end up as unloyal, unpatriotic "social retards".
I agree as well. and when it comes to the younger kids learning the "basic" stuff, that's all well and good, but it takes more than knowing the material- elementary school teachers are required to be trained in education because you need to know the correct way to teach the kids the material at young ages. I think if you want to "home school" your kids fine (though I have no idea why anyone would want to) but you should live up to the same standards as a teacher.
That is sort of what I was trying to get at with the second part of my last post. For sure most parents understand the basic stuff that you learn up to grade 6 and could probably get their kids to understand what they are talking about. So while yes any parent could probably teach their kid addition, but in those early years you are also teaching those kids how to learn, and building a foundation that everything else learned is built on. Any parent can get their kid to memorize 2+1=3 but the important thing is to I guess train their brain to absorb that knowledge, so that it is more than just memory, so that years down the road when someone teaches them the quadric formula they are able to absorb it and understand what it means.
Plus what happens if you have no teaching training and your kid is super smart and your kid wants to know more than what is in the home school education package you are using. Would an average parent know how to find the answer that the kid is looking for?
well, most schools couldn't handle that either (which is why I think a lot of people home school maybe), but I get what you are saying. a lot of home schooling, as far as I know, is basically staying one lesson ahead of the kid.
First of all "social retards" is not a term i used. Its a term someone else used. Please refrain from quoting me and using someone else's words to reference it. Now, no, i can't cite any hard studies (data would be somewhat hard to quantify). i have seen enough examples of social struggles for homeschool children to base my opinion on. Do you know of any actual studies that refute my opinion? If so, i'm open to them.
And that is part of the problem, if you are only staying one lesson ahead of the kid what happens when the kid asks a question that is 3 lessons advanced or worse a whole grade advanced and the parent hasn't purchased the next grade study materials. At least in a school if you are in grade 4 and ask your teacher a grade 5 English question he probably knows enough that he can answer you. Personally I think a parent home schooling a kid is doing that kid a huge disservice.
The other problem I have read is that a lot of parents home school their kids because the school district is teaching things that go against their beliefs (ie evolution).
Prove to whom? And why?
We don't have to prove we are one of the 2% of the population who is considered to be psychologically healthy and flourishing in order to raise our children....
We're so caught up in man-made social structures and institutions, and we've lost touch with the reality that is within and surrounds us in each moment.
While many are taught allegiance to authority, social conventions, etc. they are taught to lose touch with their inner truth and attunement to nature and reality to the degree that they remain psychologically distorted/fragmented. This kind of fragmentation is a large part of what has the vast majority being out of touch with reality, and using any number of imbalances in order to deal. Unlike those who become self-actualized, who are in the 2% minority of the psychologically healthy, and who see through the afore-mentioned social conventions to what is really there.
I'm all for having education fit within the family system as a whole, within reality, rather than having the family system fit within "education" as is commonly expected in our western world.
http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm
Imo, the same goes for various teachers who have personally taught my own children in the public system.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I was home schooled all my life, and (contrary to what you might) think I am very smart!
As far as I know, you already have to have a high school degree to home school your kids, and that makes perfect sense. But to take it as far as having to have credentials, thats stupid.
"Its a secret to everybody."
This is largely correct. Also, negative peer interactions and exposure to negative social elements. (Drugs, sexuality, bullying, etc.) i don't really have a problem with that. i think the problem arises when the child does not learn how to socialize at all due to such strict sheltering. Also lack of exposure to all of what society has to offer may lead to an inability to deal with it as an adult. Not only are these kids suddenly exposed to things they have been isolated from, they have not had an oprotunity to build up an immunity, so to speak. Kind of like how your flu shot actually contains some of the flu virus.
How about for starters if you want to be able to teach your kids long division, or trigonometry, you should have to prove that you understand those concepts. Otherwise the state or province you are in shouldn't have to certify that your kid passed what ever grade you said he is in, and shouldn't have to give him or her a highschool diploma after grade 12. Besides if people think anyone is capable of giving homeschooling their child up to grade 12, why stop there? Why shouldn't a parent be allowed to teach their kid at a university level? If a parent doesn't have to prove that they know grade 8 math to teach it to their kid, why can't they teach 2nd year multi-variable calculus without having to prove they know it?
....and the slipnoose of American Facism, pulls tighter around the necks of it's people.
Judge H. Walter Croskey should be removed from his bench, fired, thrown out and banned from ever holding such a position, ever again.
This man is everything that is wrong with this country. This man is as UnAmerican as they come.
This is freedom? This is 'Democracy"?
Who is he to dicatate how parents educate their children!?!?!?!
I think it's more than sufficient that the children prove their knowledge of the subjects by meeting the expected educational standards as expected. And as it's been pointed out, homeschooled children often surpass such expectations and are ahead of publicly educated children.
As per Pj Gurl's link: "In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile. i
This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades. ii This is a good encouragement to families catch the long-range vision and homeschool through high school."
"These findings show that when parents, regardless of race, commit themselves to make the necessary sacrifices and tutor their children at home, almost all obstacles present in other school systems disappear."
"Further, Dr. Ray found no significant statistical differences in academic achievement between those students taught by parents with less formal education and those students taught by parents with higher formal education.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I checked out those links both of those studies by Ray and Rudner were published by the National Home Education Research Institute and the Home School Legal Defense Association respectively. Whether they are correct or not, they are hardly what I would call independent research.
IMO, there is a misconception on home schooling as it is practiced today and many people immediately associate it with religious extremism and/or a bubbleboy existance. Many parents, including myself, are simply fed up with the public school system and have made the commitment to educate their children themselves.
Certainly a poorly educated parent will prove to be a poor teacher. But my experience with dozens of actual home schooling parents has been that they are highly educated, highly motivated and dedicated to providing their children with the best education possible.
Just as an effort is involved in providing a good home education, so to is an effort involved to provide interaction with other kids. Homeschooling is not for everyone, but you certainly dont need to be a licensed teacher either.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But how do you know if the research you cited is true if it was paid for by Pro-Home schooling groups? The fact that they are the ones paying for it loses all its credibility to me (even if it is true). That is like citing one of those scientists who says that smoking doesn't cause cancer, who just happened to have their research paid for by Marlboro.