A book you have to read - please read
sunless
Posts: 83
I read a lot, and every once in a while I come across something that changes my perspective in life. If you haven't heard of Joshua Key, he was a soldier in Iraq that deserted to Canada during his two week vacation. He recently did an interview for MacLean's magazine, and they included an excerpt from his book. After reading this, I ran out and bought the book. If I was American and had supported the war, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night after reading it. Now that I'm done reading it, I keep it on my nightstand so every night before I go to bed, I'm reminded how fortunate I am not to live in a country that has been invaded. Terrible things are being done with your tax dollars. Please, read the article, and I hope you are motivated to make a difference.
http://www.macleans.ca/world/global/article.jsp?content=20070205_140356_140356
http://www.macleans.ca/world/global/article.jsp?content=20070205_140356_140356
Ask, I'm an ear
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Oath of enlistment:
"I, (state your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States{{, the governor of the state of _______ (for National Guard enlistees)}} and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
When he said all this did he think it just meant he was going to get money for college and some job training.
It is unfortunate that the war in Iraq is devastating so many families both foreign and domestic. Not only have over 3,000 soldiers lost their lives, but more than 20,000 have been wounded and yes it poses the question "What for?" However the bottom line is this kid lied just as much as any President did when he said his oath and he too put other soldiers in jeopardy by not fulfilling his voluntary commitment.
If he failed to research what he may or may not be getting himself into when joining the volunteer Army than that is either his fault or the fault of his family (mom or dad) for not properly researching what their child was getting himself into.
It is unfortunate that in war, innocent civilians get killed, remember the thousands that got killed when the WTC was attacked. It is also unfortunate that the military sometimes grants entry to people who are not operating on the same moral compass that many of us do and these people sometimes go overboard and commit crimes against innocent people. However for you to say without any real facts that " people are being sent to war to kill innocent civilians and rape women and children" is absurd.
One last point, this kid was a very low ranking soldier, what that means is that he does not need to know the exact details of what is going on or why they are tasked with apprehending certain men. His job is simply to do as he is told and as he stated in his oath, "Obey the orders of the Officers appointed over him."
It is unfortunate that America has taken over the role of becoming the world police and it is true that not every world problem has an American solution.
While I don't agree that the lives of over 3,000 troops and all of the wounded was worth getting rid of Sadaam, his sons, their rape chambers, and mass killing of thousands of their own people, it does not absolve this kid from fulfilling his commitment.
Its supposedly a novel about a defectors true experience in Iraq but he writes things like " it was a handsome building"...
WTF?
a little too contrived IMO..
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
And HatTrick, if you want to talk about "properly researching what you're getting yourself into", just remember that your country (particularily the CIA anyway) didn't exactly properly research the whole situation (one of the main "reasons" or justifications for going over - WMDs) either. You're right, maybe he should have been more prepared for some kind of troubling shit when he signed up. You said he should have done more research before hand, but you also said that as a low ranking officer he doesn't need to know certain details, once he was there [he wouldn't be able to find out if he tried anyhow]. And to not ponder the idea that at least SOME military personell over there don't exactly have good intentions is even more absurd.
And yes, maybe it is a bit contrived (like a "made for TV movie" retelling of some shitt event), but I wouldn't automatically assume it's devoid of all fact.
la hoooo zaaa herrr
If you have read through my posts you would realize that I am defending the coutry or the war, but in no way should this kid be commeded for desserting the Army, his country, or his fellow soldiers.
I'm confused about your comments about some military members not have good intentions. The military is full of all kinds of different people good and bad. There are theives and drug users and there are people with high morals and only good intentions. So there is no doubt going to be soldiers that brake the law and they should be punished for for those crimes, but to think that soldiers are just braking into houses and raping women and children on a regular basis is absurd.
Maybe you have or maybe you haven't served your country, but from someone who has I could not imagine ever quitting on my fellow brothers and causing someone else to do the job that I volunteered to do.
Why is that?
First thing that jumps out at me about the above is "defending against all enemies..." Who is the enemy in his situation? His fellow soldiers who rape, injure, and kill harmless civilians? Or the innocent civilians themselves?
I appreciate our soldiers. I cannot begin to fathom the amount of sacrifice that they make. But I think when dirty shit like the aforementioned goes on within a military unit, there needs to be more people step it up and speak out. If he would have stood up and said he didn't agree with teh events that he saw happening without first leaving the country, he would have probably been murdered by his fellow soldiers and then marked down as another statistic of a life lost to the war.
Fuck those sick bastards that give commands to harm the harmless. I understand its war and you can't leave any stone unturned. But get more educated idividuals on your squad that can do better research and actually find a terrorist.
And while I'm on a rampage...fuck this war. now i'm all f'n depressed.
Probably should be, but I hope they don't move it. More people will read it in here. However, maybe the wrong people. I live just outside a military base here in Canada, and I appreciate the work that these people do. However, if I was hired to do a job, and then found out that my job was not to fight a war, like I was told, but to terrorize innocent people, I would want the fuck out. Having a handful of kids himself, he couldn't justify what they were doing to the kids in Iraq. There is one story in the book about guarding a hospital. A 10 year-old girl would come to the gates every day and ask for food. They weren't allowed to talk to the 'enemy' so he would give her his rations and make her go away. One day, one of the guards on the roof blew her head off while she was crossing the street. Tell me, Hatty, what kind of threat would she pose?
Ok Sunny, let me try a different angle. Lets say that these stories are not embelished at all, and these things are really taking place. Obviously that is a horrible situation and no one with a soul would want to be a part of it. So then it is ok to just quit? This is also no the movies, this kid had a duty to report these terribe atrocities to his leadership, not just walk away from them. That being said, I beleive that these stories are very muched embelished as I have been deployed to the middle east and it is very differnet from the "hollywood" atmosphere that is being depicted here.
when you're deailng with an enemy that would have no second thoughts about strapping a large amount of explosive to said little girl, or her mother, or her grandmother, it's kinda hard to tell exactly what threat any specific person might pose...
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
390th Fighter Squadron
Wild Boars
I see your point, I just personally don't agree that he was "desserting" anybody to the extent of the picture you're painting here. I apologise if I appear to be quibbling over semantics here, but bear with me.... If he was in the middle of fighting with his fellow company, and then suddenly up and left, then that would be pretty harsh. But disagreeing with your [not entirely] democratic country's military practices and so on, and leaving that whole scene (when you're already back home at that present time) is somewhat of a different matter, in my opinion. I know that once a civilian makes that jump, they're in a different ball game, but I personally wouldn't be offended, if I was an fellow American. And on that note, I'm glad that thus far we are able to have an open debate about this... of course it's only a matter of time before others join in, including far angrier folk, and we'll start to see things like, "well your opinion doesn't hold water, because you're canadian, so fuck off'. Anyway. I also think that you shouldn't shit on this guy for voicing his opinion like he is, versus attempting to consult his superiors on such matters. Do you honestly think that some higher-ranking officer is going to move mountains as a result of one private's indignation? I don't want to crap on your concept of letting down your country, because I really do see worth in that sentiment. However, I think one of the focal points of why this article was written, and why it was posted on here by sunless, is due to the fact that this man found himself not doing the "job he volunteered to do"... you could argue this until we'd all rather be listening to Nickleback or some god-awful thing (or until you're blue in the face, whichever)... and I know maybe this all sounds kinda goes-without-saying, but when he signed up, he did NOT know that this was in store. (I know I know, it's the armed forces, and you can never know exactly how you'll be having to "defend our freedom" and all of that rhetoric). Ok, I'm sooo tired right now, what i'm trying to say here is... just look at my response to this:
Yes. You're right... living in total fear DOES in fact present these dillemas. Who knows, someone on this forum could be a terrorist! Pff, "an enemy". WHO is the enemy you're referring to? Apparently it's the whole country (non-whites?) of Iraq.
Maybe my points are all flimsy, maybe they're not. All I know is I'm both tired and frustrated. But thanks for listening anyway.
don't make me out to be some kind of racist (non-whites? wtf does that have to do with it?). the enemy are people who have vowed and declared that they want to kill americans just for being americans. terrorists. al qaeda, hamas, hezbollah, and their ilk.
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
I know, I know. I was being cynical actually... probably overly. I didn't mean to imply that you are, I'm sure you're not. It's just that to me, the statement made was so rediculous that you might as well be.
Yes, WE ALL KNOW THAT TERRORISM IS BAD. But if you read the story, you would know that the point being made is here is that NOT EVERY PERSON NATIVE TO IRAQ IS A TERRORIST. Yet, the country pretty much is fair game for crap like this to happen, where wholly innocent people are suffering because of ignorance. Yes, kind of like sept. 11... but again, more American troops alone (aside from the local population losses, which are much higher).. have died in this conflict than died in events of 9/11 - something which had nothing to do with Iraq.
I wouldn't read the rest of the book after reading this passage..let alone buy it....that guy doesn't deserve to make a dime off this story.
Oh, I agree... and if he did make a living off of that, then he'd really be a soulless sellout in my opinion.
You're right, it's not "all", but that doesn't mean that this one lone person's viewpoint should be completely written off either.
you asked what threat a little girl might pose in iraq. the terrorists have used women and children to carry out their bombings. it is difficult to know which women and children are being used by terrorists, and which ones are just walking by, because they look and act the same. it's like saying you could tell the difference between someone from illinois and someone from indiana in a split second from a hundred yards maybe in a cloud of dust and heat or maybe in the middle of the night.
ebay isn't evil people are
The South is Much Obliged
Toledo 10/04
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*hopefully sometime before I die* Noblesville
Songs I'm hoping to hear live: Nothingman, In My Tree, Indifference, and Animal
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/02/12/child.soldiers/index.html
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Around here "weekend warriors" are teachers, students, farmers, insurance salesmen, police officers and anyone making an average income that can take off one weekend a month to supplement their income. Poor people trying to make it.
Nationally we are known for our Tornadoes and Floods.
So, for years and years, our local weekend warriors have been called to assist those struck by natural disasters. They've delivered food & supplies to those communities that lost their homes to storms and high winds. They stood guard over our neighborhoods to stop looters and sandbagged the levees during the floods of the mid 90's to protect our communities.
The National Guard has never been (in our eyes at least) a military extension. In fact, the recruiters always told the enlistees that, unless we were invaded... the military function of the National Guard was a primarily domestic function.
That all changed didn't it? I have many friends that went to Iraq... only to return, somewhat changed... not for the better... the distant stares more so than the smiling eyes we used to know. Many have had to assume a Dr's care and the medication to follow.
So to read this thread and see some people so blind to the injustice our own government has done to our own soldiers. You know ...so many lies and misleads....
I really can't blame ANY of them for defecting or deserting.