to what extent did the
IndianSummer
Posts: 854
christianisation of Europe, happen at the cost of europeanisation of biblical christianity??
we know the easter and solstice and wodan bit... what else??
how much of "european paganism" is to be found in today's christianity??
we know the easter and solstice and wodan bit... what else??
how much of "european paganism" is to be found in today's christianity??
I have faced it, A life wasted...
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
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please explain.. i didnt get "the wedding band on the left hand bit"
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
Christmas in December along with all other associated imagery ie. Chrstmas trees...
your thinking of "Roman Catholicism" not Christianity
The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian
Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.
For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)
Before we get to specific problems with Catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the Catholic religion dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic religon so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons.
I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).
Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.
1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.
Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).
One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.
NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.
Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.
I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?
The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.
1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.
I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];
I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic religion which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).
The Catholic religion has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of Roman Catholicism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts--1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound 2) there's no such thing as purgatory and 3) the gift of God is without price.
Roman Catholicism today is probably the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not some religious organization.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
Austria is a catholic country and wedding rings are worn on the right hand here. I think this is more of a regional tradition thing than religion.
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
I was a catholic but now im a protestant. The Catholic church has grown weak.
is a nice novel at best no matter how you interpret it
Here's a video about Christmas, it has some funny parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dnxHmvrrW0
Here's an excerpt from the video:
"If you're a Christian, there's a good chance you've never heard of Mithras, but the funny thing is, you've known him your entire religious life! Not as Mithras, but as Jesus of Nazareth. Get this...The following inscription is located at the Vatican: "He who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood, so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved."...Sounds pretty appropriate for being found at the Vatican right? Well, how about considering the fact that this statement is inscribed on the remains of a temple that the Vatican was built onx a temple dedicated to the Solar deity Mithras. Or how about the fact that Mithras was known by his followers as the "Light of the World" and "The Good Shepard," and told his followers to practice ritual communion meals of bread and wine. Is it any coincedence now, that the religion of Mithras died out about the same time when Christianity was getting popular?"
The case of the catholic church was the attempt (successfully in the end) to convert Europe to their ways. It is then easier to tell the maybe reluctant would-be converts that they can pretty much go about as before, but remember that it is GOD now, and the others you worship, well we'll call them saints (and some of them demons or evil spirits), and you know those parties you have in midsummer and midwinter, they are now for the birth and death of jesus. In essence, they can do what they did, but just switch out the reason for it. Add a subtle (or not so subtle) threat of force to back it up, and people go along. After a few generations, the original reasons have been all but forgotten by most people. Or it just takes on it's on life as a continuation off the church's take on it, in what we call superstition and myth.
Alot of christianity now was foreshadowed or had predecessors within other cults and religions. It's really just a case of integrating philosophical ideas and images that held potent power at the time. And few of them started with christianity.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
wrong.
the Christmas tree is totally Pagan.they worship the creation not the creator.
check out this book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1594620105/ref=pd_sl_aw_alx-jeb-9-1_book_16418193_2?tag2=amd-google-20
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
Christianity is almost dead in Europe, though.
naděje umírá poslední
\let me guess...your jewish?
I.e., if you want to get right with God, you have to be a Christian - which, if I may be so bold, is "some religious organization."
Pope, priest, minister, or soap-box bullhorn, it's always someone shouting how you need to get right with God - all the while whispering "while doing it my way."
That depends very much on where you are in Europe. Even Scandinavia, which is the most "godless" place according to numerous surveys, has a quotient of roughly 25% who believe in the return of Jesus.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Half of what you have written is false (I don't want to take the time or energy to spell them out because you are an obivous fanatic and it would make no difference in your opinion). I am Catholic and there is no reason to have such hatred towards another religion. Bottom line is Catholics believe Jesus is the Savior of the World. Just like every other Christian religion. There may be different traditions and prayers but the basic belief is the same.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
The holidays Christmas and Easter were not pagan holidays but the dates they were celebrated on were pagan holidays. That is the reason that Easter and Christmas was put on those days to get people to stop having pagan holidays.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
You are correct Tybird. If I am not mistaken the tradition of wearing a wedding ring on the left hand on the ring finger started with the Greeks who believed that the vein in that finger was connected to the heart.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
tell me what is false!!
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
Well, it went from 100% to maybe 50%, I'd say it's almost dead.
And I thought the Czech Republic was the most 'godless' country, with only 10% who believe.
naděje umírá poslední
hmmmm,think there might be a connection?
i do.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
Look at who's doing the fucking up.
naděje umírá poslední
No, I would have to say I completely disagree with the statement "our planet has never been more fucked than it is now."
This book will answer your questions: http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Decline-Magic-sixteenth-seventeenth/dp/0195213602/sr=1-1/qid=1170778028/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-7684030-8998550?ie=UTF8&s=books
I read it years ago. It's a great read.
I will state just one. You said we worship Mary. This is untrue.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
I agree. The western world, in my opinion, is becoming more Godless but I hardly think we're living in dire times right now.
But watch the news for very long, or a political roundtable, and you'll begin to wonder how much time we really have left.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
you don't know what's going on around the globe then.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
read it again!!!no one said mary was your GOD.
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
There's a lot of bad things going on. But name a time when things were better?
And again, this has nothing to do with godlessness, one would believe the opposite if you actually looked at the people or countries that cause these horrible things.
naděje umírá poslední