Ok, forgive my ignorance, but when has the CIA ever created an infrastructure that forced people from their homes, robbed them of all their possessions, and transported them to death camps their to be murdered in their millions. The answer is never. Again the CIA has done terrible things. I don't deny that. But the comparison to the Nazis is ridiculous. Saying that the CIA is responsible for the Cambodian genocide is to free the Khmer Rouge of all responsibility. If the CIA weren't the ones who actually were doing the killing then their is no comparison to be made.
Thanks for manipulating my post. I explicitaly stated that the CIA involvemnet does not extricate the Khmer Rouge From responsibility at all.
I also fail to see how no similarity exists with your example and bombing peoples homes, destroying their possessions and killing them as the American military did under CIA guidance during Vietnam. Many of those people in Cambodia did end up in death camps so the comparison can be made.
Indirect or not those people still died and America had a massive role in it.
its not just cambodia ... its all over the fucking world ... i know its hard for people to stomach a comparison to the nazi's ... but this comparison is secondary to the fact that you have a state-sponsored organization that has been the root cause of so much innocent deaths all over the world ...
arguing over whether they are like nazis takes away from the fact that this organization still exists and still funds covert operations in the name of US enterprise ... this is what the western world is all about now ...
The bombing of Cambodia ordered by Henry Kissinger killed 800,000 people even though America were not formerly at war with them. The CIA continued to fund the puppet regime against the Communits Khmer Rouge. When things got too hot they bailed and the resultant genocide killed 2 million Cambodians. Whilst the actions of the Khmer Rouge can not be blamed squarely on the CIA there would have been no civil war and no need to 'purge' the civilian population had the CIA not been involved.
Add to that Kissinger one the Nobel Peace prize ending the war.WTF
let's not forget the death squads we funded, armed and trained in el salvador or teh contras we did the same for that killed civilians in nicaragua <or how we mined their harbors and bombed them from being one of the richest nations in the region to one of the poorest in the world>
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
G. The CIA Under President Reagan
President Reagan made good on his promise to rebuild the CIA and secured a major expansion in the budget and personnel of the agency. (The CIA budget was a secret until 1997, when it was officially revealed to be $26.6 billion. Rough estimates suggest that the agency’s budget was about $20 billion in 1981, and that it reached a Cold War high of about $36 billion at the end of the 1980s.) Reagan named CIA veteran William Casey as the agency’s director, and included him in the Cabinet where he became a key presidential adviser. Reagan relied heavily on Casey and the CIA to lead his campaign to end what he called the “evil empire” of Soviet Communism. At Reagan’s direction, the CIA created reports that exaggerated the economic and military threat presented by the Soviet Union. The distorted estimates helped Reagan persuade Congress to approve massive funding for the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)—a system of space-based defenses against nuclear attack. The Soviet economy, already hobbled by chronic problems, was too weak to support a Soviet military effort to match SDI.
wow...fixing intelligence to get a higher defense budget...why does this sound familiar?????
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
G. The CIA Under President Reagan
President Reagan made good on his promise to rebuild the CIA and secured a major expansion in the budget and personnel of the agency. (The CIA budget was a secret until 1997, when it was officially revealed to be $26.6 billion. Rough estimates suggest that the agency’s budget was about $20 billion in 1981, and that it reached a Cold War high of about $36 billion at the end of the 1980s.) Reagan named CIA veteran William Casey as the agency’s director, and included him in the Cabinet where he became a key presidential adviser. Reagan relied heavily on Casey and the CIA to lead his campaign to end what he called the “evil empire” of Soviet Communism. At Reagan’s direction, the CIA created reports that exaggerated the economic and military threat presented by the Soviet Union. The distorted estimates helped Reagan persuade Congress to approve massive funding for the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)—a system of space-based defenses against nuclear attack. The Soviet economy, already hobbled by chronic problems, was too weak to support a Soviet military effort to match SDI.
wow...fixing intelligence to get a higher defense budget...why does this sound familiar?????
Lincoln suspended habeus corpus and won the civil war. God Bless him for that. I bet you would've taken him to task for that. Doesn't matter now that you have a united nation to live in, though.
Some of the best presidents bended the rules. I stand by Reagan's actions completely. Call me a follower, but I'm glad the USSR is dead. Hopefully you are too. Beating the communists was the most important struggle of our time and for those that lambaste Reagan for doing it, I can't understand whose side you're on. Aren't you glad that the USSR is gone?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
the CIA's crimes are far worse than the Nazis, just more subtle. The damage they have caused around the world is incalculable. They set up tyrants all over the world..that afffects millions of lives...they fund terrorist organizations, some off the most brutal the world has seen...they fund warlords...their policies have affected many lives during and since the cold war.
they may, as you claim, have affected billions of lives (not all of them in a bad way), but did they do so purposefully? there is no doubt that some fucked up things have happened as a result of the CIA's doings, but it is not like they directly funded what was to becom Al-Quaeda with the intent that they would become an international terrorist organization. whereas the nazis executed millions of jews without remorse. period. to compare the two is unforgiveable. sure the CIA members have different views than you, but to compare them to nazis? disgusting.
thank the CIA that you aren't speaking russian in a gulag right now.
G. The CIA Under President Reagan
President Reagan made good on his promise to rebuild the CIA and secured a major expansion in the budget and personnel of the agency. (The CIA budget was a secret until 1997, when it was officially revealed to be $26.6 billion. Rough estimates suggest that the agency’s budget was about $20 billion in 1981, and that it reached a Cold War high of about $36 billion at the end of the 1980s.) Reagan named CIA veteran William Casey as the agency’s director, and included him in the Cabinet where he became a key presidential adviser. Reagan relied heavily on Casey and the CIA to lead his campaign to end what he called the “evil empire” of Soviet Communism. At Reagan’s direction, the CIA created reports that exaggerated the economic and military threat presented by the Soviet Union. The distorted estimates helped Reagan persuade Congress to approve massive funding for the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)—a system of space-based defenses against nuclear attack. The Soviet economy, already hobbled by chronic problems, was too weak to support a Soviet military effort to match SDI.
wow...fixing intelligence to get a higher defense budget...why does this sound familiar?????
last time i checked, the ussr was around way before regan ever became president. the ussr was, as you said, crumbling from the inside. however, the cold war was a far more immenent threat during the 50's and 60's.
they may, as you claim, have affected billions of lives (not all of them in a bad way), but did they do so purposefully? .
what like backing corrupt leaders? over throwing elected ones? Yes these things are done on purpose? But maybe they are stupid and don't think that these things will have negative effects?
The CIA is the most dangerous organization on the planet.
-
Even this entire issue with Iran is caused by the CIA, 1953 overthrowing Mohammad Mossadegh.
The CIA is to blame for most of the major problems in the world.
The CIA is to blame for most of the major problems in the world.
Nah, I think Africa is blamed for most of the major problems in the world because human beings originated there, right? Let's just bring it all back in history to the beginning, you know? Don't leave a stone unturned when we look who to blame.
That's silly. So the CIA fucked up 50 years ago. Iran is a fuck up today because they refuse to overthrow their govt "that we created." Blah blah blah.
Accountability!!!!!!!! We have it, they should too. Hold them to the same standard. America fought the greatest nation on earth and won its independence. Surely the Iranians can crush a few ragheads running their country.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
We didn't start the fire
It was always burnin' since the world was turnin'
I think it's safe to say that a large portion of those fires were fuled by America. Not sure if that's what the artist was trying to really say in the song. But that's how it is.
I mean most of the examples in the song involved america in some way or another. For better or for worse.
I can't understand whose side you're on. Aren't you glad that the USSR is gone?
The US is a bigger threat to global security than the USSR ever was. Raegan's policies forever crippled many of your countrymen, how can you be proud of that?.
The US is a bigger threat to global security than the USSR ever was. Raegan's policies forever crippled many of your countrymen, how can you be proud of that?.
Are you a communist?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Beating the communists was the most important struggle of our time and for those that lambaste Reagan for doing it, I can't understand whose side you're on. Aren't you glad that the USSR is gone?
how was communism a threat to american security?? ... why should america care how other countries run their economics? ...
how was communism a threat to american security?? ... why should america care how other countries run their economics? ...
Why do you support communism?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -MLK Jr.
Communism's goal was world domination. The USSR wanted to make America a communist nation. The fact that you have no problem with this must either make you a communist or a pacifist.
It was either "crush the USSR" or "become communist." I choose the former.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Communism's goal was world domination. The USSR wanted to make America a communist nation. The fact that you have no problem with this must either make you a communist or a pacifist.
Sorry I don't fit neatly under labels. Hopefully you, as an American can see the irony in what you just posted.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -MLK Jr.
Communism's goal was world domination. The USSR wanted to make America a communist nation. The fact that you have no problem with this must either make you a communist or a pacifist.
It was either "crush the USSR" or "become communist." I choose the former.
i neither support it nor am against it ... it is not for me or anyone to decide but the people that live there ...
you can't be serious with your claim? ... what would the soviets gain by making america a communist country?? ... world domination?? ... nothing in history points to that ... do you see cuba trying to take over the world ... there is only one country who's actions indicate that and they aren't a communist country ...
you go all over the world to try and topple communist gov'ts yet - was there one bloody attack on US soil by communist countries?? ...
i neither support it nor am against it ... it is not for me or anyone to decide but the people that live there ...
you can't be serious with your claim? ... what would the soviets gain by making america a communist country?? ... world domination?? ... nothing in history points to that ... do you see cuba trying to take over the world ... there is only one country who's actions indicate that and they aren't a communist country ...
you go all over the world to try and topple communist gov'ts yet - was there one bloody attack on US soil by communist countries?? ...
Well, since you're not opposed to communism, I guess we can't have this discussion.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Educated people understand what communism is and how it consistently fails. Economically, it is completely infeasible. Command economies are simply impossible to sustain.
Long lines, economic depression, brutal dictatorship, lack of civil rights, and poor education are all consistent symptoms of communism. The fact that you say you are not opposed to this is baffling.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Long lines, economic depression, brutal dictatorship, lack of civil rights, and poor education are all consistent symptoms of communism. The fact that you say you are not opposed to this is baffling.
Educated people understand what communism is and how it consistently fails. Economically, it is completely infeasible. Command economies are simply impossible to sustain.
Long lines, economic depression, brutal dictatorship, lack of civil rights, and poor education are all consistent symptoms of communism. The fact that you say you are not opposed to this is baffling.
but educated people will understand that your theory has nothing to do with what we are discussing ...
what threat to american security did communism pose that allows you to fund organizations to topple these gov'ts and make them unstable all the while resulting in the deaths of many innocent people??
i neither support it nor am against it ... it is not for me or anyone to decide but the people that live there ...
you can't be serious with your claim? ... what would the soviets gain by making america a communist country?? ... world domination?? ... nothing in history points to that ... do you see cuba trying to take over the world ... there is only one country who's actions indicate that and they aren't a communist country ...
you go all over the world to try and topple communist gov'ts yet - was there one bloody attack on US soil by communist countries?? ...
i may be wrong, but didn't it say in the communist maifesto that one revolution would spawn another, and another, and keep going until the whole world was free of the ruling class?
i am almost positive that one of the main goals of (true) communism is to cause a world wide communist revolution
i may be wrong, but didn't it say in the communist maifesto that one revolution would spawn another, and another, and keep going until the whole world was free of the ruling class?
i am almost positive that one of the main goals of (true) communism is to cause a world wide communist revolution
Somewhere Karl Marx is getting a woody.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Comments
Thanks for manipulating my post. I explicitaly stated that the CIA involvemnet does not extricate the Khmer Rouge From responsibility at all.
I also fail to see how no similarity exists with your example and bombing peoples homes, destroying their possessions and killing them as the American military did under CIA guidance during Vietnam. Many of those people in Cambodia did end up in death camps so the comparison can be made.
Indirect or not those people still died and America had a massive role in it.
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
arguing over whether they are like nazis takes away from the fact that this organization still exists and still funds covert operations in the name of US enterprise ... this is what the western world is all about now ...
hmm. my bad. learn a new thing every day.
let's not forget the death squads we funded, armed and trained in el salvador or teh contras we did the same for that killed civilians in nicaragua <or how we mined their harbors and bombed them from being one of the richest nations in the region to one of the poorest in the world>
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ya think so?
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArtTextonly.aspx?refid=761568583&print=11
G. The CIA Under President Reagan
President Reagan made good on his promise to rebuild the CIA and secured a major expansion in the budget and personnel of the agency. (The CIA budget was a secret until 1997, when it was officially revealed to be $26.6 billion. Rough estimates suggest that the agency’s budget was about $20 billion in 1981, and that it reached a Cold War high of about $36 billion at the end of the 1980s.) Reagan named CIA veteran William Casey as the agency’s director, and included him in the Cabinet where he became a key presidential adviser. Reagan relied heavily on Casey and the CIA to lead his campaign to end what he called the “evil empire” of Soviet Communism. At Reagan’s direction, the CIA created reports that exaggerated the economic and military threat presented by the Soviet Union. The distorted estimates helped Reagan persuade Congress to approve massive funding for the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)—a system of space-based defenses against nuclear attack. The Soviet economy, already hobbled by chronic problems, was too weak to support a Soviet military effort to match SDI.
wow...fixing intelligence to get a higher defense budget...why does this sound familiar?????
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Lincoln suspended habeus corpus and won the civil war. God Bless him for that. I bet you would've taken him to task for that. Doesn't matter now that you have a united nation to live in, though.
Some of the best presidents bended the rules. I stand by Reagan's actions completely. Call me a follower, but I'm glad the USSR is dead. Hopefully you are too. Beating the communists was the most important struggle of our time and for those that lambaste Reagan for doing it, I can't understand whose side you're on. Aren't you glad that the USSR is gone?
-Enoch Powell
they may, as you claim, have affected billions of lives (not all of them in a bad way), but did they do so purposefully? there is no doubt that some fucked up things have happened as a result of the CIA's doings, but it is not like they directly funded what was to becom Al-Quaeda with the intent that they would become an international terrorist organization. whereas the nazis executed millions of jews without remorse. period. to compare the two is unforgiveable. sure the CIA members have different views than you, but to compare them to nazis? disgusting.
thank the CIA that you aren't speaking russian in a gulag right now.
last time i checked, the ussr was around way before regan ever became president. the ussr was, as you said, crumbling from the inside. however, the cold war was a far more immenent threat during the 50's and 60's.
what like backing corrupt leaders? over throwing elected ones? Yes these things are done on purpose? But maybe they are stupid and don't think that these things will have negative effects?
The CIA is the most dangerous organization on the planet.
-
Even this entire issue with Iran is caused by the CIA, 1953 overthrowing Mohammad Mossadegh.
The CIA is to blame for most of the major problems in the world.
Nah, I think Africa is blamed for most of the major problems in the world because human beings originated there, right? Let's just bring it all back in history to the beginning, you know? Don't leave a stone unturned when we look who to blame.
That's silly. So the CIA fucked up 50 years ago. Iran is a fuck up today because they refuse to overthrow their govt "that we created." Blah blah blah.
Accountability!!!!!!!! We have it, they should too. Hold them to the same standard. America fought the greatest nation on earth and won its independence. Surely the Iranians can crush a few ragheads running their country.
-Enoch Powell
It was always burnin' since the world was turnin'
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I think it's safe to say that a large portion of those fires were fuled by America. Not sure if that's what the artist was trying to really say in the song. But that's how it is.
I mean most of the examples in the song involved america in some way or another. For better or for worse.
The US is a bigger threat to global security than the USSR ever was. Raegan's policies forever crippled many of your countrymen, how can you be proud of that?.
Are you a communist?
-Enoch Powell
how was communism a threat to american security?? ... why should america care how other countries run their economics? ...
Why do you support communism?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -MLK Jr.
Communism's goal was world domination. The USSR wanted to make America a communist nation. The fact that you have no problem with this must either make you a communist or a pacifist.
It was either "crush the USSR" or "become communist." I choose the former.
-Enoch Powell
Sorry I don't fit neatly under labels. Hopefully you, as an American can see the irony in what you just posted.
i neither support it nor am against it ... it is not for me or anyone to decide but the people that live there ...
you can't be serious with your claim? ... what would the soviets gain by making america a communist country?? ... world domination?? ... nothing in history points to that ... do you see cuba trying to take over the world ... there is only one country who's actions indicate that and they aren't a communist country ...
you go all over the world to try and topple communist gov'ts yet - was there one bloody attack on US soil by communist countries?? ...
If it scares you I guess that I could be?
Well, since you're not opposed to communism, I guess we can't have this discussion.
-Enoch Powell
ha! ... you only talk to people who hate commys?
Educated people understand what communism is and how it consistently fails. Economically, it is completely infeasible. Command economies are simply impossible to sustain.
Long lines, economic depression, brutal dictatorship, lack of civil rights, and poor education are all consistent symptoms of communism. The fact that you say you are not opposed to this is baffling.
-Enoch Powell
This is pure bullshit.
naděje umírá poslední
but educated people will understand that your theory has nothing to do with what we are discussing ...
what threat to american security did communism pose that allows you to fund organizations to topple these gov'ts and make them unstable all the while resulting in the deaths of many innocent people??
Add in lack of food, water and healthcare for 80% of the population and you have the result of uncontrolled capitalism.
What about Camel Jockey?
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
i may be wrong, but didn't it say in the communist maifesto that one revolution would spawn another, and another, and keep going until the whole world was free of the ruling class?
i am almost positive that one of the main goals of (true) communism is to cause a world wide communist revolution
Somewhere Karl Marx is getting a woody.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-