David Duke against zionism !!

dayan

IndianSummer wrote:

what the americans are trying to say is that, if iran wants to wipe out israel, its for the peopel of ISRAEL and at most, the UNITED NATIONS peace keeping force, to try and neuter the challenge, not for americans.

can you give them (americans) one good reason, why americans have to fight israel's enemies???

would israel ever contemplate sending a few IDF soldiers in afghanistan??

I don't think that America should fight Israel's battles. I think America should fight Iran because Iran is a threat to American interests.

dayan

DPrival78 wrote:

where is the proof of iran's nuclear weapons program? and is it an imminent threat to anyone? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/01/AR2005080101453.html)

we were told the same bullshit about iraq, and they had nothing and were a threat to no one.

and if iran is building nuclear weapons, can you blame them? they're being threatened with war by A. the only country to ever use nuclear weapons (us) and B. the only country in the middle east that has nuclear weapons - despite their attempts to hide the fact (israel).

where is the evidence that iran is actually building bombs, or that they are close to doing so? iran is a signatory of the non-proliferation treaty.. is israel?

and this whole "wipe israel off the map" thing is being blown out of proportion. people who actually speak the language assert that ahmedawhateverjad did not say those words, and that he was quoting an old ayatollah khomeni speech. the quote was, ""the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time." to me that sounds like he's saying the israeli occupation of palestine should end. he's not threatening to "wipe israel of the map", but that's much more effective to sway people's opinion. (kind of how the threat that "iraq was 45 minutes away from having mushroom clouds pop up over american cities" was used) but giving the actual translation, in context, wouldn't jive too well with the spin/propaganda machine.

You can choose not to see what is plainly clear to everyone else, and I have no illusions about trying to change the mind of someone to rapt up in his own fantasies to see that when a raving anti-semite talks about wiping the Jewish state off the map and is trying to build nuclear weapons we might have reason to worry. Every intelligence service in the world says Iran is building nukes. Even Iran says they are building nuclear facilities for "peaceful" purposes, so the only question is whether they are gonna build bombs, which seems pretty much certain since their "peaceful" facilities are military complexes built underground. And no one was talking about attacking Iran (not the US and not Israel) until Iran starting building their own nukes, sponsoring terrorists all over the world, talking genocidally, and generally started being the most terrifying country on earth.

rationalthought

Awesome.

Now the anti-semites liberal psychos are quoting David Duke. In not too long, you'll be referencing Hitler. He also thought there was a "Jewish problem."

kenny olav

DPrival78 wrote:

and this whole "wipe israel off the map" thing is being blown out of proportion. people who actually speak the language assert that ahmedawhateverjad did not say those words, and that he was quoting an old ayatollah khomeni speech. the quote was, ""the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time." to me that sounds like he's saying the israeli occupation of palestine should end. he's not threatening to "wipe israel of the map", but that's much more effective to sway people's opinion.

exactly. it's these kinds of lies in the media that really piss me off. and the issue here isn't david duke. he's a convienent scapegoat, as is anyone who was in the KKK, even if they later repudiated it. and I don't know the totality of David Duke's current opinions on politics, race, etc... but there's nothing he said in this interview I find objectionable. American and Israeli policy is to blame for the murder and conquest of Arabs... and let's face facts: these governments are elected by the people. the majority of the citizens of America and Israel are themselves to blame. to say this isn't anti-American, anti-Semetic, anti-Jew, or whatever... but heaven forbid you ever nod at anything David Duke says... you must be a rabid Jew-hater or a Klansman... so I don't know why I even bother speaking my mind.

kenny olav

http://www.jatonyc.org
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
http://www.nkusa.org
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com
http://www.codoh.com/zionweb/zizad/zizad.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html
http://www.christianzionism.org

mammasan

Kenny Olav wrote:

exactly. it's these kinds of lies in the media that really piss me off. and the issue here isn't david duke. he's a convienent scapegoat, as is anyone who was in the KKK, even if they later repudiated it. and I don't know the totality of David Duke's current opinions on politics, race, etc... but there's nothing he said in this interview I find objectionable. American and Israeli policy is to blame for the murder and conquest of Arabs... and let's face facts: these governments are elected by the people. the majority of the citizens of America and Israel are themselves to blame. to say this isn't anti-American, anti-Semetic, anti-Jew, or whatever... but heaven forbid you ever nod at anything David Duke says... you must be a rabid Jew-hater or a Klansman... so I don't know why I even bother speaking my mind.

In this day and age no one can criticize any of Israel's actions because that automatically makes you an anti-semite.

rationalthought

Kenny Olav wrote:

exactly. it's these kinds of lies in the media that really piss me off. and the issue here isn't david duke. he's a convienent scapegoat, as is anyone who was in the KKK, even if they later repudiated it. and I don't know the totality of David Duke's current opinions on politics, race, etc... but there's nothing he said in this interview I find objectionable. American and Israeli policy is to blame for the murder and conquest of Arabs... and let's face facts: these governments are elected by the people. the majority of the citizens of America and Israel are themselves to blame. to say this isn't anti-American, anti-Semetic, anti-Jew, or whatever... but heaven forbid you ever nod at anything David Duke says... you must be a rabid Jew-hater or a Klansman... so I don't know why I even bother speaking my mind.

The fact that he was speaking from a Holocaust denial conference might give you some key into his beliefs. But, you apparently are so blinded by your hate that you will piggyback on racists like David Duke.

Oh wait, it was an academic conference on free speech. Because Iran is a haven for such freedoms: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4123788.stm

rationalthought

mammasan wrote:

In this day and age no one can criticize any of Israel's actions because that automatically makes you an anti-semite.

Hundreds of thousands are being killed in Sudan. But, the world will do nothing, because it would distract them from condemning the JEWS. Face it, the UN is controlled by Arab countries and those in the third world dependent on them. So, we will see hundreds of anti-Israel resolutions with nothing ever getting done. Kofi Annan himself recognized this in his farewell speech.

kenny olav

rationalthought wrote:

The fact that he was speaking from a Holocaust denial conference might give you some key into his beliefs. But, you apparently are so blinded by your hate that you will piggyback on racists like David Duke.

Oh wait, it was an academic conference on free speech. Because Iran is a haven for such freedoms: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4123788.stm

I'm not defending Iran's legal system or holocaust denial.

kenny olav

here's something for ya, mr. rational thinker...



Talk prepared by Rabbi Yisroel Feldman of Neturei Karta International to be delivered at the International Conference to review the Holocaust, December 11-12, in Tehran, Iran

With praise to the Almighty may my words find favor in His eyes.

I want to begin with gratitude and great respect to the Iranian government in general and to the Honorable Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei and to His Excellency, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Much has and will be said at this conference concerning the debate of European Jewry during the Second World War. I am neither a scientist nor a professional historian and am not capable of responding to many of the questions discussed here.

What I propose to do though, is to speak about the morality of what happened to European Jewry and the morality of using their fate as an explanation for other political and cultural activities.

No matter how we may debate some of the details of what was done to the Jews of Europe there is no doubt that they were treated brutally and that this brutality included all men, women and children. The Jews were physically attacked and murdered. Their possessions and homes were taken. They were shipped across Europe like animals jammed into cattle cars with little or no food and water. Millions died. And many of these were defenseless women and children. These are facts. The worldwide Jewish community is by and large descendents of those who survived this horrible hell.

It would probably lend much credibility to those who wish to study the destruction of European Jewry if they would clearly condemn these actions committed during the holocaust. There is no moral justification for what was done.

However, there is also no moral justification for using these events to dispossess and occupy another people who have nothing whatsoever to do with what was done in Europe. Let Europe make amends for what took place if they so desire, not the Palestinians.

Plus, it is our belief that it is not the appropriate role for Jews when they live in exile amongst the nations to adopt any position of antagonism towards any other peoples or nations. We believe that Jews are called upon to lead by example by serving as a positive role model for all of mankind, not as dictators of public policy.

Zionism violated many tenets of the Jewish faith. It sought to deny the metaphysical reality of Jewish exile and the Divine command that we live at peace with other peoples. Its cruelty towards the Palestinian was and is notorious.

The founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, wrote in his diary that he felt the existence of anti-Semitism was a healthy thing because this would make Jews mistrust the other nations of the world and come running to the state he wanted to create for them. He saw fit to even cultivate this anti-Semitism and some of the Zionist leaders refused to participate in attempts to rescue European Jews from the horrors of the inferno of Europe because it suited their own purposes to do so.

The advent of Zionist ideology, even before the creation of the state, met with tremendous opposition from great Jewish leaders who saw in Zionism two major problems: One, that the Jewish people had been commanded not to try and leave exile by force, but rather to live peacefully as subservient loyal citizens wherever they would reside. And secondly, that we had similarly been forbidden from assuming ownership of the land. That these things have come to pass and that they have been achieved through the wide scale oppression of another nation is absolutely in dissonance with Jewish faith and law. The great Rabbis who witnessed the birth of Zionism predicted that this movement would bring terrible catastrophes upon the Holy Land and upon the world, and many refer to this development as the foremost reason for the holocaust itself. The Rabbis saw Zionism as a horribly rebellious phenomenon and felt that by embracing Zionism the Jewish people was invoking the Divine wrath, and in fact, in our time, it is clear that Zionism has created untold tragedy. Throughout the centuries Jew and Muslim lived side by side amicably, but those times predated the Zionist era. The situation is such that we need a miraculous salvation from what Zionism has wrought.

What is most important, though, is that when approaching the all-important topics of Zionism and the holocaust that we keep our balance and moral clarity. What was done to the Jews and to other European peoples, such as the Poles and Gypsies, was a great evil. If its parameters need to be explored, let them be freely explored, but all the while realizing that we are exploring the reality of an evil deed. This is the delicate clarity that is so needed when approaching this sensitive issue.

Similarly, when studying Zionism we need to always distinguish between Zionism and Judaism. Between those caught in its grasps and those actively committing acts of Zionist aggression; Between Torah True Jews and those who have strayed from our faith and traditions;

These are the distinctions that need go forth from this conference. They will lend its deliberations credibility and add to the ultimate goal of peace between peoples, the eradication of all cruelty, and the overall moral and Divine agenda of all mankind.

May G-d be with you.

kenny olav

Remarks by Rabbi Aharon Cohen at the same International Conference “Review of the Holocaust”, Tehran 11-12 December ’06



I must add that the use by the Zionists of the Holocaust to further their aim of a sectarian State is the height of hypocrisy when one bears in mind that the Zionists turned each stage of Nazi oppression to their own advantage, to further the aim of forming a State. In the thirties when the Nazi policy was to expel the Jews from Germany, it is well documented how the Zionists cooperated by working together – yes together - with the Nazi authorities to evacuate ‘suitable’ Jews i.e. young healthy pioneer material, from Germany to Palestine. Then during the war when the killing was proceeding, it is again well documented how their attitude was one of callousness, not helping when they could even though they were able to. They needed the suffering and the deaths in order to be able to push for their State when the war would end. Finally, after the war they turned the whole issue of the Holocaust and the pity and sympathy it evoked into almost an article of faith in order to ensure as much as possible the acquisition of their State. Claiming that Zionism was there in order to prevent another Holocaust, when in fact Zionism predated the Holocaust by decades. They then proceeded to justify their atrocities against the Palestinians in order to further their cause.

To sum up, the Orthodox Jewish view is that yes there was a Holocaust to a terribly significant degree whatever that was. But in no way can it be used to justify the illegitimate and criminal cause and actions of Zionism.

IndianSummer

dayan wrote:

I don't think that America should fight Israel's battles. I think America should fight Iran because Iran is a threat to American interests.

even libya was made to appear as a threat to usa by the mossad.

google "trojan dick trick"

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=rfW&q=%22trojan+dick+trick%22&btnG=Search&meta=

IndianSummer

mammasan wrote:

In this day and age no one can criticize any of Israel's actions because that automatically makes you an anti-semite.

that applies in the pentagon as well.

any accusing finger at israel is considered career suicide.

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=QmW&q=career+suicide+comverse&btnG=Search&meta=


^^^ google "comverse career suicide"

dayan

see I don't think anyone who disagrees with Israeli policy or is critical of Israel is an anti-semite, only the people who do so while making excuses for Holocaust deniers, and asserting that America is run by the mossad, and that the Jews control the media. If you do/believe these things then yes, I think you're an anti-semite, and frankly I pity you.

mammasan

dayan wrote:

see I don't think anyone who disagrees with Israeli policy or is critical of Israel is an anti-semite, only the people who do so while making excuses for Holocaust deniers, and asserting that America is run by the mossad, and that the Jews control the media. If you do/believe these things then yes, I think you're an anti-semite, and frankly I pity you.

I disagree with a lot of Israel's policies, I disagree with Holocaust deniers but defend the right for them to say it, the media as well as America is run by corporations. You masy not be one of the people who will labels anyone who criticizes Israel as an anti-semite but there are a lot of people out there that do. Just as any criticism of the US is seen as being un-patriotic. As far as Zionism is concerned, I do support Israel's right to exist what I do not support is the US's unconditional support of Israel.

mammasan

rationalthought wrote:

Hundreds of thousands are being killed in Sudan. But, the world will do nothing, because it would distract them from condemning the JEWS. Face it, the UN is controlled by Arab countries and those in the third world dependent on them. So, we will see hundreds of anti-Israel resolutions with nothing ever getting done. Kofi Annan himself recognized this in his farewell speech.

That is so far fetched I can even put my head around it. Yes hundreds of thousands are dying in the Darfur region of Sudan and Islamic militants are seizing control of Somalia with the violence possibly spilling into Ethiopia. The reason no one does nothing about it is the same reason why no one did anything about Rwanda, because the powers that be don't give a shit about some dirt poor country in Africa. I think Nick Nolte's character in Hotel Rwanda said it best when he said that the world things that the Rwandans are lower than (insert n word), they where Africans. It has nothinbg to do with this anti-Israel sentiment or this fictional Arab control of the UN. If anything Israel has carte-blanche to do what ever the hell it wants without international reprocussions because it always has big brother US watching it's back. So please don't turn horrific tragedies like the genocide in Darfur into some anti-arab pro-Israel diatribe when the reality is that no one gives a fuck about some dying African so that's why nothing is done.

Cosmo

David Duke hates Jews.
...
and this is suppose to surprize us... how?

IndianSummer

is it true that david duke also ran for prez??

the world is tottering on the brink on lunacy with bush in charge... i shudder to think what would happen if david duke becomes prezident !!!

do you think its likely??

gue_barium

Thanks Kenny, for posting the two Rabbi's words. I had no idea.

CorporateWhore

I don't believe that the Rabbi's words have any foundation to build political arguments from. Just as I would not say that the Jews deserve Israel because of some biblical prophecy, I would not say that they don't deserve Israel because of some biblical prophecy. His arguments stem from religious thought, not political.

The Jews deserve Israel because they own it now and they're more powerful than the Palestinians. Borders are made by power and muscle, not by treaties. The U.S. owns its land, not because we deserve it but because we took it. To the victor goes the spoils, my friends, and the Jews got the Holy Land. Now, we must decide when we're going to let them defend their interests and when we're going to defend OUR interests. Trust me, those interests are not one in the same.