You want to talk about rude...Obama is the most thin skinned politician on the national stage. Like a spoiled, immature child he couldn’t wait his turn to respond to the scolding that McCain gave him.
Actually.....
that's what you sound like right now.
McCain was damn rude and you know it. He did not hardly even look at him when he was talking. It's just common decency to look someone in the eyes when they are talking to you.
I thought that McCain was pretty much bitch-slapping Obama most of the night. Especially the stuff on Russia. He needs to drive home the Energy Independence = JOBS thing harder. I also thought he was weak at the beginning. When Obama was trying to claim that he was warning of the Fannie/Freddie thing 2 years ago. McCain should have pointed out that he was on the congressional record, not Obama.
Also, don’t say things like “I have one too” about the bracelet and then not know the name of the soldier on it. Looking at his wrist to get the name was pretty lame.
A little biased are we. I thought that at the start of the debate, when they focused on the economy, Obama clearly had the upper hand. He seemed confident while McCain fumbled here and there. When foreign policy came up McCain definitely had Obama on the defensive a few times but he managed to keep his ground. Over all it was a draw for me. Which, as a few of you have stated, benefits Obamam since this was supposed to be McCain's forte.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I'm disappointed. I thought Obama had a real opportunity last night to distinguish himself from McCain and didn't get the job done. The bailout questions should have been hit out of the park by Obama and he looked wishy washy and non committal. When Lehrer asks "How do you all stand on the recovery plan? -- are you in favor of this plan?" Obama answers with "We haven't seen the language yet." He should have come out stronger and said "I do not support the plan that President Bush offered that puts the burden of bailing out his failed policies on the backs of the American tax payer without any change that will protect us from getting into this situation again in the future. What I will support is a plan that helps the unfortunate folks who are losing their houses to foreclosure. I will support a plan that gives us more oversight and regulation over greedy CEO's and that limits their compensation. I will vote for a plan that is in the best interests of Main St not Wall St."
When Lehrer presses "But if I hear the two of you correctly neither one of you is suggesting any major changes in what you want to do as president as a result of the financial bailout? Is that what you're saying?" Obama should have said "That's right. I realized when I made my plans that I would be inheriting a mess from George W Bush. It's no surprise to me or anyone else who has been paying attention that we are in a recession and economic crisis despite Senator McCain's claims that the fundamentals of the economy are strong. My plans are going to make America a stronger country by creating new jobs in an energy economy, fixing the broken health care system, and making sure we are the best educated people in the world. Wall St is based on future confidence. My plans will fix what George Bush and John McCain have done to Main St the last eight years and Wall St will respond to that."
Instead I had to hear over and over again that "John McCain is right." What the fuck Barack? Do you want to win or not?
McCain for his part stayed breathing throughout and thus exceeded expectations. He didn't look old and senile so he looks like he could stay alive for four years should Sarah Palin be elected Vice President. That's a win for him. He kept pounding Obama for "not understanding and not getting it." He stayed in the hunt last night and keeps it close enough for the Bradley effect or Diebold to put him over the top.
He didn't look old and senile so he looks like he could stay alive for four years should Sarah Palin be elected Vice President. That's a win for him.
Really? Í didn't think he looked that great. He looks sick to me. Unless he is suffering toxic shock from all that make up. I don't think he has looked good for a few weeks. Hope i'm wrong. Don't want his as my President but clearly don't wish ill health on anyone.
...just calling it like I see it...sorry if I am coming off as immature...didn't realize typing on an open message board made me look immature...o wait….maybe it is.
Do you think not looking into someone’s eye is rude...give me a break...do you want to know what was rude, Obama always called McCain “John” which struck me as being very disrespectful. McCain always referred to Obama as Senator Obama.
Guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.
I'm disappointed. I thought Obama had a real opportunity last night to distinguish himself from McCain and didn't get the job done. The bailout questions should have been hit out of the park by Obama and he looked wishy washy and non committal. When Lehrer asks "How do you all stand on the recovery plan? -- are you in favor of this plan?" Obama answers with "We haven't seen the language yet." He should have come out stronger and said "I do not support the plan that President Bush offered that puts the burden of bailing out his failed policies on the backs of the American tax payer without any change that will protect us from getting into this situation again in the future. What I will support is a plan that helps the unfortunate folks who are losing their houses to foreclosure. I will support a plan that gives us more oversight and regulation over greedy CEO's and that limits their compensation. I will vote for a plan that is in the best interests of Main St not Wall St."
When Lehrer presses "But if I hear the two of you correctly neither one of you is suggesting any major changes in what you want to do as president as a result of the financial bailout? Is that what you're saying?" Obama should have said "That's right. I realized when I made my plans that I would be inheriting a mess from George W Bush. It's no surprise to me or anyone else who has been paying attention that we are in a recession and economic crisis despite Senator McCain's claims that the fundamentals of the economy are strong. My plans are going to make America a stronger country by creating new jobs in an energy economy, fixing the broken health care system, and making sure we are the best educated people in the world. Wall St is based on future confidence. My plans will fix what George Bush and John McCain have done to Main St the last eight years and Wall St will respond to that."
Instead I had to hear over and over again that "John McCain is right." What the fuck Barack? Do you want to win or not?
McCain for his part stayed breathing throughout and thus exceeded expectations. He didn't look old and senile so he looks like he could stay alive for four years should Sarah Palin be elected Vice President. That's a win for him. He kept pounding Obama for "not understanding and not getting it." He stayed in the hunt last night and keeps it close enough for the Bradley effect or Diebold to put him over the top.
Chipboy is right on here. Sen. Obama had plenty of golden opportunities to stick it to Sen. McCain and he balked. Meanwhile, McCain was on the offensive most of the time. I think Obama had the upperhand in the beginning when the focus was on the economy, but not by much because he never brought up anything about the real estate or credit crisis. He instead let McCain bully him into an argument about whose tax/spending policies will be better for the economy, which is exactly the argument McCain wanted to have. But to think that Obama had the upper hand at all in the foreign policy catagory is crazy. Obama said eight times that he agreed with McCain... that's a sure way to lose a debate. Plus, McCain was able to site so many times that he has been to the areas in question (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Russia, etc.) and met with the leaders of these nations whereas Obama has never been to any of these places nor met with any dignitaries. McCain was able to backup his statements with experience, while Obama could not.
Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
But my favorite quote of the night was when McCain looked into Putin’s eyes and saw, “K.G.B.”
I think that McCain and Cheney look in everyones eyes and see "K.G.B". That's been the problem with the last 8 years.
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
While I still think that ultimately Obama won because he was able to present himself as a strong presidential candidate who is knowledgeable on foreign affairs, McCain did look strong in his experience dealing with foreign leaders. Here's an interesting excerpt from a Newsweek article on the debates:
What I am arguing is that while Obama blasted Bush, McCain looked past him. Coupled with his reliance on catchy anecdotes over bullet-pointed policy positions--"defying Reagan on the Lebanon deployment, the bracelet belonging to the mother of a dead soldier, the firing of Chris Cox, the bear DNA"--this post-Bush perspective may help McCain appeal to moderates, a group that's more interested in solving problems than engaging in the partisan blame game. It was probably a matter of necessity more than anything else. But he used it to his advantage.
McCain wasn't perfect tonight. Far from it, in fact. He scowled, smirked and refused to look at his rival, conveying an air of condescension that could turn off some undecideds. He twisted the facts in a few of his responses, including the ones on the Eisenhower letters and his Lebanon vote. He compared Obama to Bush, which is laughable. (Obama laughed.) And he seemed overeager to say that his opponent didn't "understand" the issues--despite ample evidence to the contrary.
For his part, Obama was hardly a dud. He proved himself as a sensible, studious, informed thinker--certainly a contrast to the "naive celebrity" caricature that McCain and Co. have tried to peddle to the populace. He had the best soundbite of the night. "You said it was going to be quick and easy," Obama said. "You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong." (Most Americans would agree.) Obama was even "presidential"--which was the only bar he really had to clear.
But ultimately I suspect that McCain did more to reinforce his message--I'm a tough leader who will cut waste and get Iraq right--than his opponent. Repetition may bore political junkies, but it helps candidates connect with casual voters--as do memorable (if corny) anecdotes. Obama relied instead on abstractions and statistics. What's more, McCain outperformed low expectations set by a week of somewhat erratic behavior. Whether that makes any electoral difference remains to be seen. The contours of the race and the climate in the country still favor Obama, who holds a small but consistent lead in recent polls. To remake the landscape, McCain would've had to score a knockout blow. He didn't. The question, then, is whether he can keep delivering such solid performances from now until Nov. 4--and whether even that will be enough.
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
I tuned in at the end and all I saw was two guys beating the drums for more war....
it was pathetic...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Do you think not looking into someone’s eye is rude...give me a break...do you want to know what was rude, Obama always called McCain “John” which struck me as being very disrespectful. McCain always referred to Obama as Senator Obama.
McCain referred to Obama as Senator Obama because he refused to talk to him as he was supposed to according to the debate guidelines. (I thought this made him seem afraid of Obama, and certainly not like a man who will engage in bipartisan discussion.) Obama referred to McCain as John only when he was speaking directly to him, and referred to him as Senator McCain when he was speaking about him.
Edit: I see now that chiefojibwa has already made this point.
Neither man delivered clear knockouts of their opponent.
However, I feel that Obama demonstrated a clear understanding of foreign policy. This is key because many people had doubts about his experience and understanding of the world. I saw a poll on CNN saying something like 60-70% of people though he is ready to lead after the debate. That is a huge issue to be resolved by Obama, and I think he did a great job in that respect.
Remember, McCain was supposed to win this debate easily. That clearly didn't happen. If you just go by mannerisms and temperment during the debate, I felt Obama was cool and composed while McCain was looking like an angry old man. He kept giving off some strange scoff or laugh or something that made him seem dismissive. Also, how can you not look at someone when you are addressing them? Weird...
I feel much better today than I have recently. Number one, the bloom is completely off the Palin rose. She's a lead balloon for the Republican ticket. Number two, while last night's debate was certainly no knockout for Obama, it wasn't any help to McCain, either. I've been looking at the news all morning and it seems all but the most die-hard GOP Kool-Aid drinkers see it the same way. Obama really has a solid chance at this. I'm signing up to make a donation today.
And how in the fuck is calling someone by the first name rude?
They're both senators. They're colleagues. Yes, McCain has been in the senate a lot longer, but that doesn't matter. Moreover, they are their respective party's nominee for President of the United States. It isn't some kid calling an adult by their first name.
It's a big reach to call that disrespect, but reaching is what the GOP specializes in (see lipstick on pigs on all that crapola).
i'm tired of hearing about mccain's hero status from him allways bringin up hi's war record ,he never once answerd the ?? about him voting for the war with bush not once did he address it, he seems so out of touch with what's really bothering the american public wich is ECONOMICS I FOR ONE DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT AFGANISTAN I CARE ABOUT MY RETIREMENT ??? AND MY PARENTS RETIREMENT ?? ......
McCain interrupted Obama repeatedly and put him on the defensive.
And I'm not living this life without you, I'm selfish and clear
And you're not leaving here without me, I don't wanna be without
My best... friend. Wake up, to see you could have it all
....Obama did start it. And he would stutter his way into "That's not true", when nearly all of them were true.
Actually, most of them were not true. Henry Kissinger did say that you should open negotiations without preconditions with Iran, McCain was false when he said that Obama would raise taxes on the middle class. Most of those claims made by McCain that Obama repudiated were falsehoods on McCain's part.
Actually, most of them were not true. Henry Kissinger did say that you should open negotiations without preconditions with Iran, McCain was false when he said that Obama would raise taxes on the middle class. Most of those claims made by McCain that Obama repudiated were falsehoods on McCain's part.
I should have continued by saying that both parties lied their pants off. I just wish that they both had stuck to what their ideas and plans were. The two of them were like little girls trying to one up each other instead of stating what they had to say. I can't stand it when people attack each other as a person and not what they stand for.
Obama came off as being more in control of the facts and figures. Consistently, he pointed out when McCain was not being completely truthful and he did so immediately, even before McCain was done speaking. That said, Obama let McCain run away with the debate too much. They spent more time talking about what McCain wanted to talk about and this had Obama on the defensive a little too much.
McCain definitely came out looking like the tough attack dog who has experience. He controlled the debate better than I expected. This is good, but it also made him seem somewhat mean. His attacks on Obama, while nothing more than anyone expected, were presented in somewhat condescending ways. When he criticized Obama, he would say 'Sen. Obama does not get it.' or 'Sen. Obama is wrong.' all the time referring to Obama in the third person. While saying this, he did not look at Obama either. He looked at Jim Lehrer or the camera.
Obama, on the other hand, looked at McCain when he criticized him. He referred to McCain in the second person, i.e. 'You were wrong.' Thus, by comparison, McCain came off as condescending, cold, and seemed to avoid his opponent in the debate, while Obama criticized directly and did not sound condescending in his speech or actions.
Overall, the winner of the debate will not be determined by who had a better command of the facts (Obama) or who was able to control the course of the debate (McCain). It will be determined by the impressions the candidates gave to the voters.
Impressions I got from Obama:
Respectful and direct in his attacks.
Calm and Collected.
Knew what he was talking about.
Impressions from McCain:
Takes Control very easily
Emotional
Indirect and condescending in his attack style.
Avoided the actual questions more so than Obama.
Honestly, I don't think the debate did much to break the status quo, which is worse for McCain than Obama. But the winner will be determined by what the people think, in other words by the polls. The CNN and CBS polls seem to show most people thinking Obama won, but of course not many people have been polled yet.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I think if McCain was more in control of the debate it was because Obama was more respectful. He tried more so than McCain to stay on point, be conscious of the time parameters, and speak directly to McCain when the debate format called for it. He looked McCain in the eye, he didn't take any cheap shots, etc. Also, to my knowledge he tried to accurately represent McCain's position, as I don't remember McCain saying Obama was lying about anything but Kissinger's position (which it appears Obama was right about).
When he said he agreed with McCain, it was because he was trying to outline, as the moderator kept requesting and as the public needs to know, the points at which their positions diverge. He would say things like, "I agree with Senator McCain that x needs to happen, but I disagree about how best to accomplish that." McCain, on the other hand, would say he wanted the same thing Obama wants as if he's the only one who wants it.
I think Obama was more about the issues and McCain was more about the game (soundbites, misrepresentations, etc). If you say "Obama doesn't understand' enough times, people are more likely to walk away with the impression that Obama doesn't understand, whether or not it was true any of the times you said it. I think it's good that Obama called him on his misrepresentations though.
I also think it made McCain look bad that he made more jokes than Obama, who seemed more serious, and that he mispronounced the name of the leader of Iran.
I think Obama seemed, in general, more calm and collected, more like a natural, more confident. Regarding the stuttering, I think that's just the way he talks. I know other people who talk that way all the time; it's not a reflection of them being nervous or unable to find appropriate words or something.
This is just the impression I took away from watching the debate on TV. I haven't gone back and analyzed everything that was said as I'm sure some people have.
Also, I'll disclose that I did go into this favoring Obama. But one of the reasons I favor Obama to begin with that he seems more concerned with the issues, more respectful, more likely to not weigh in on a situation until he has enough information (as with the question about whether he agrees with the bailout proposal). It's no surprise to me that he exhibited those qualities last night.
Overall, I think they both did a good job though. And I don't think McCain is quite the dumbfuck that Bush is. Hell, I actually had respect for the man - until he chose Palin as his running mate.
Obama: A+
Suit was impeccably tailored. Nice color and fabric. Good tie choice.
McCain: B
Suit was a little frumpy and tended to ridge up in the back a bit when his arm went up and down. Color wasn't bad, though. Poor choice on that peppermint stripe tie. Much too busy for the camera.
Good sleeve length on both suits. Just long enough that neither had to reveal that a bracelet was actually being worn during that 'soldier's bracelet' exchange.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Obama: A+
Suit was impeccably tailored. Nice color and fabric. Good tie choice.
McCain: B
Suit was a little frumpy and tended to ridge up in the back a bit when his arm went up and down. Color wasn't bad, though. Poor choice on that peppermint stripe tie. Much too busy for the camera.
Good sleeve length on both suits. Just long enough that neither had to reveal that a bracelet was actually being worn during that 'soldier's bracelet' exchange.
I actually thought McCain's tie subliminally made him seem weaker (if you believe in that kind of stuff). It's like, if his tie couldn't even decide what color to be - or he couldn't decide what color tie to wear - how is he going to make any real decisions.
Obama's tie was crooked though - just a little - and that bugged me throughout the whole debate.
Comments
that's what you sound like right now.
McCain was damn rude and you know it. He did not hardly even look at him when he was talking. It's just common decency to look someone in the eyes when they are talking to you.
are you capable of having an original thought....?
A little biased are we. I thought that at the start of the debate, when they focused on the economy, Obama clearly had the upper hand. He seemed confident while McCain fumbled here and there. When foreign policy came up McCain definitely had Obama on the defensive a few times but he managed to keep his ground. Over all it was a draw for me. Which, as a few of you have stated, benefits Obamam since this was supposed to be McCain's forte.
When Lehrer presses "But if I hear the two of you correctly neither one of you is suggesting any major changes in what you want to do as president as a result of the financial bailout? Is that what you're saying?" Obama should have said "That's right. I realized when I made my plans that I would be inheriting a mess from George W Bush. It's no surprise to me or anyone else who has been paying attention that we are in a recession and economic crisis despite Senator McCain's claims that the fundamentals of the economy are strong. My plans are going to make America a stronger country by creating new jobs in an energy economy, fixing the broken health care system, and making sure we are the best educated people in the world. Wall St is based on future confidence. My plans will fix what George Bush and John McCain have done to Main St the last eight years and Wall St will respond to that."
Instead I had to hear over and over again that "John McCain is right." What the fuck Barack? Do you want to win or not?
McCain for his part stayed breathing throughout and thus exceeded expectations. He didn't look old and senile so he looks like he could stay alive for four years should Sarah Palin be elected Vice President. That's a win for him. He kept pounding Obama for "not understanding and not getting it." He stayed in the hunt last night and keeps it close enough for the Bradley effect or Diebold to put him over the top.
I'd say it was a tie, but like people have mentioned, that only helps Obama..
Chipboy is right on here. Sen. Obama had plenty of golden opportunities to stick it to Sen. McCain and he balked. Meanwhile, McCain was on the offensive most of the time. I think Obama had the upperhand in the beginning when the focus was on the economy, but not by much because he never brought up anything about the real estate or credit crisis. He instead let McCain bully him into an argument about whose tax/spending policies will be better for the economy, which is exactly the argument McCain wanted to have. But to think that Obama had the upper hand at all in the foreign policy catagory is crazy. Obama said eight times that he agreed with McCain... that's a sure way to lose a debate. Plus, McCain was able to site so many times that he has been to the areas in question (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Russia, etc.) and met with the leaders of these nations whereas Obama has never been to any of these places nor met with any dignitaries. McCain was able to backup his statements with experience, while Obama could not.
I think that McCain and Cheney look in everyones eyes and see "K.G.B". That's been the problem with the last 8 years.
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
What I am arguing is that while Obama blasted Bush, McCain looked past him. Coupled with his reliance on catchy anecdotes over bullet-pointed policy positions--"defying Reagan on the Lebanon deployment, the bracelet belonging to the mother of a dead soldier, the firing of Chris Cox, the bear DNA"--this post-Bush perspective may help McCain appeal to moderates, a group that's more interested in solving problems than engaging in the partisan blame game. It was probably a matter of necessity more than anything else. But he used it to his advantage.
McCain wasn't perfect tonight. Far from it, in fact. He scowled, smirked and refused to look at his rival, conveying an air of condescension that could turn off some undecideds. He twisted the facts in a few of his responses, including the ones on the Eisenhower letters and his Lebanon vote. He compared Obama to Bush, which is laughable. (Obama laughed.) And he seemed overeager to say that his opponent didn't "understand" the issues--despite ample evidence to the contrary.
For his part, Obama was hardly a dud. He proved himself as a sensible, studious, informed thinker--certainly a contrast to the "naive celebrity" caricature that McCain and Co. have tried to peddle to the populace. He had the best soundbite of the night. "You said it was going to be quick and easy," Obama said. "You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shiite and Sunni. And you were wrong." (Most Americans would agree.) Obama was even "presidential"--which was the only bar he really had to clear.
But ultimately I suspect that McCain did more to reinforce his message--I'm a tough leader who will cut waste and get Iraq right--than his opponent. Repetition may bore political junkies, but it helps candidates connect with casual voters--as do memorable (if corny) anecdotes. Obama relied instead on abstractions and statistics. What's more, McCain outperformed low expectations set by a week of somewhat erratic behavior. Whether that makes any electoral difference remains to be seen. The contours of the race and the climate in the country still favor Obama, who holds a small but consistent lead in recent polls. To remake the landscape, McCain would've had to score a knockout blow. He didn't. The question, then, is whether he can keep delivering such solid performances from now until Nov. 4--and whether even that will be enough.
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
it was pathetic...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
McCain referred to Obama as Senator Obama because he refused to talk to him as he was supposed to according to the debate guidelines. (I thought this made him seem afraid of Obama, and certainly not like a man who will engage in bipartisan discussion.) Obama referred to McCain as John only when he was speaking directly to him, and referred to him as Senator McCain when he was speaking about him.
Edit: I see now that chiefojibwa has already made this point.
However, I feel that Obama demonstrated a clear understanding of foreign policy. This is key because many people had doubts about his experience and understanding of the world. I saw a poll on CNN saying something like 60-70% of people though he is ready to lead after the debate. That is a huge issue to be resolved by Obama, and I think he did a great job in that respect.
Remember, McCain was supposed to win this debate easily. That clearly didn't happen. If you just go by mannerisms and temperment during the debate, I felt Obama was cool and composed while McCain was looking like an angry old man. He kept giving off some strange scoff or laugh or something that made him seem dismissive. Also, how can you not look at someone when you are addressing them? Weird...
They're both senators. They're colleagues. Yes, McCain has been in the senate a lot longer, but that doesn't matter. Moreover, they are their respective party's nominee for President of the United States. It isn't some kid calling an adult by their first name.
It's a big reach to call that disrespect, but reaching is what the GOP specializes in (see lipstick on pigs on all that crapola).
And you're not leaving here without me, I don't wanna be without
My best... friend. Wake up, to see you could have it all
....Obama did start it. And he would stutter his way into "That's not true", when nearly all of them were true.
Actually, most of them were not true. Henry Kissinger did say that you should open negotiations without preconditions with Iran, McCain was false when he said that Obama would raise taxes on the middle class. Most of those claims made by McCain that Obama repudiated were falsehoods on McCain's part.
I should have continued by saying that both parties lied their pants off. I just wish that they both had stuck to what their ideas and plans were. The two of them were like little girls trying to one up each other instead of stating what they had to say. I can't stand it when people attack each other as a person and not what they stand for.
Obama came off as being more in control of the facts and figures. Consistently, he pointed out when McCain was not being completely truthful and he did so immediately, even before McCain was done speaking. That said, Obama let McCain run away with the debate too much. They spent more time talking about what McCain wanted to talk about and this had Obama on the defensive a little too much.
McCain definitely came out looking like the tough attack dog who has experience. He controlled the debate better than I expected. This is good, but it also made him seem somewhat mean. His attacks on Obama, while nothing more than anyone expected, were presented in somewhat condescending ways. When he criticized Obama, he would say 'Sen. Obama does not get it.' or 'Sen. Obama is wrong.' all the time referring to Obama in the third person. While saying this, he did not look at Obama either. He looked at Jim Lehrer or the camera.
Obama, on the other hand, looked at McCain when he criticized him. He referred to McCain in the second person, i.e. 'You were wrong.' Thus, by comparison, McCain came off as condescending, cold, and seemed to avoid his opponent in the debate, while Obama criticized directly and did not sound condescending in his speech or actions.
Overall, the winner of the debate will not be determined by who had a better command of the facts (Obama) or who was able to control the course of the debate (McCain). It will be determined by the impressions the candidates gave to the voters.
Impressions I got from Obama:
Respectful and direct in his attacks.
Calm and Collected.
Knew what he was talking about.
Impressions from McCain:
Takes Control very easily
Emotional
Indirect and condescending in his attack style.
Avoided the actual questions more so than Obama.
Honestly, I don't think the debate did much to break the status quo, which is worse for McCain than Obama. But the winner will be determined by what the people think, in other words by the polls. The CNN and CBS polls seem to show most people thinking Obama won, but of course not many people have been polled yet.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
When he said he agreed with McCain, it was because he was trying to outline, as the moderator kept requesting and as the public needs to know, the points at which their positions diverge. He would say things like, "I agree with Senator McCain that x needs to happen, but I disagree about how best to accomplish that." McCain, on the other hand, would say he wanted the same thing Obama wants as if he's the only one who wants it.
I think Obama was more about the issues and McCain was more about the game (soundbites, misrepresentations, etc). If you say "Obama doesn't understand' enough times, people are more likely to walk away with the impression that Obama doesn't understand, whether or not it was true any of the times you said it. I think it's good that Obama called him on his misrepresentations though.
I also think it made McCain look bad that he made more jokes than Obama, who seemed more serious, and that he mispronounced the name of the leader of Iran.
I think Obama seemed, in general, more calm and collected, more like a natural, more confident. Regarding the stuttering, I think that's just the way he talks. I know other people who talk that way all the time; it's not a reflection of them being nervous or unable to find appropriate words or something.
This is just the impression I took away from watching the debate on TV. I haven't gone back and analyzed everything that was said as I'm sure some people have.
Also, I'll disclose that I did go into this favoring Obama. But one of the reasons I favor Obama to begin with that he seems more concerned with the issues, more respectful, more likely to not weigh in on a situation until he has enough information (as with the question about whether he agrees with the bailout proposal). It's no surprise to me that he exhibited those qualities last night.
Overall, I think they both did a good job though. And I don't think McCain is quite the dumbfuck that Bush is. Hell, I actually had respect for the man - until he chose Palin as his running mate.
'Grading the First Presidential Debate
McCain Overall grade: B-
Obama Overall grade: A-'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080927/us_time/gradingthefirstpresidentialdebate;_ylt=AsPhYgwuplpKjNWVOIa_x0dH2ocA
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Obama: A+
Suit was impeccably tailored. Nice color and fabric. Good tie choice.
McCain: B
Suit was a little frumpy and tended to ridge up in the back a bit when his arm went up and down. Color wasn't bad, though. Poor choice on that peppermint stripe tie. Much too busy for the camera.
Good sleeve length on both suits. Just long enough that neither had to reveal that a bracelet was actually being worn during that 'soldier's bracelet' exchange.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I actually thought McCain's tie subliminally made him seem weaker (if you believe in that kind of stuff). It's like, if his tie couldn't even decide what color to be - or he couldn't decide what color tie to wear - how is he going to make any real decisions.
Obama's tie was crooked though - just a little - and that bugged me throughout the whole debate.