Keep yer mouth shut, soldier!

2

Comments

  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    know1 wrote:
    If you're a soldier, you do what you're told. That's just how it works. I really wonder why there are people who haven't grasped that concept yet.

    Your absolutely right. Now please explain to us what the whole SUPPORT THE TROOPS mean. People have been harassed, ridiculed, and personally attacked because they have said or been perceived to have said something negative about our SOLDIERS.

    We have talked about numerous inconsistencies that this Administration has done that pisses in the face of our Soldiers and their families, yet, it never failed that the old two standard fall back lines came into play.

    a) they volunteered
    b) they're soldiers, they should just follow orders

    Honestly, at what point, does SUPPORT THE TROOPS mean more than a symbolic magnet?

    They were sent into a country, Afghanistan, which is in the top five list of countries with the most land mines in the world and our returning soldiers injuries demonstrate such. So Please, explain how this Administration is allowed to use soldiers to promote their own agenda. Yet, here they are with missing body parts, subjected to diseased rodents which could easily infect them and NOW this Administration wants them to shut up. Enlighten us on how this falls under shut up and follow orders.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    know1 wrote:
    If you're a soldier, you do what you're told. That's just how it works. I really wonder why there are people who haven't grasped that concept yet.

    He he... because that is not anymore true than for any other group of people.. It may appear that way to you because at times their jobs can be somewhat hazardous and stressful... making their management scheme very important.

    Our soldiers are treated as laborors in a nation filled with contempt for laborors...

    And it lies to them to do their bidding.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    puremagic wrote:
    Your absolutely right. Now please explain to us what the whole SUPPORT THE TROOPS mean. People have been harassed, ridiculed, and personally attacked because they have said or been perceived to have said something negative about our SOLDIERS.

    We have talked about numerous inconsistencies that this Administration has done that pisses in the face of our Soldiers and their families, yet, it never failed that the old two standard fall back lines came into play.

    a) they volunteered
    b) they're soldiers, they should just follow orders

    Honestly, at what point, does SUPPORT THE TROOPS mean more than a symbolic magnet?

    They were sent into a country, Afghanistan, which is in the top five list of countries with the most land mines in the world and our returning soldiers injuries demonstrate such. So Please, explain how this Administration is allowed to use soldiers to promote their own agenda. Yet, here they are with missing body parts, subjected to diseased rodents which could easily infect them and NOW this Administration wants them to shut up. Enlighten us on how this falls under shut up and follow orders.

    I don't know what "support the troops" means. I've never claimed to or asked anyone to do it. I wish them absolutely no ill will, and on some level I respect what they feel called to do, but I do not believe wars are justified.

    That being said, everyone knows that war is a possibility if you join the military, so they are joining at their own risk.

    Personally, there's a part of me who wishes nobody would ever join. It would be a lot harder to conduct a war if you had nobody willing to fight.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Abuskedti wrote:
    He he... because that is not anymore true than for any other group of people.. It may appear that way to you because at times their jobs can be somewhat hazardous and stressful... making their management scheme very important.

    Our soldiers are treated as laborors in a nation filled with contempt for laborors...

    And it lies to them to do their bidding.

    I didn't lie to them...nor did I fall for any lies.

    It's hard to believe that there are people who do not understand that when you enlist you are essentially signing away your freedom and agreeing to obey orders for a set period of time.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    know1 wrote:
    I didn't lie to them...nor did I fall for any lies.

    It's hard to believe that there are people who do not understand that when you enlist you are essentially signing away your freedom and agreeing to obey orders for a set period of time.

    That of course is not true.. well with the exception of some movies. They recieve training - they have responsibilities.. they are trained to respect those with other responsibilities and to meet their own.

    The do not sign away any freedoms.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    know1 wrote:
    I didn't lie to them...nor did I fall for any lies.

    It's hard to believe that there are people who do not understand that when you enlist you are essentially signing away your freedom and agreeing to obey orders for a set period of time.
    You are not signing away your right to be treated with minimal standards of human decency. You couldn't operate a dog kennel that had mold growing all over the place and was overrun with vermin ... someone would report it to the county or call an investigative reporter and you'd be shut down. We should not treat people or animals that way in this country, least of all people who, as you have repeatedly pointed out, have willingly signed away some of their freedoms and suffered injuries on our behalf. These soldiers were being abused and no one was helping them until the Washington Post got involved. If that is what it took to get the Army to clean that place up, what would you have had them do? Lie there while the mice romped on their bandaged limbs?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    hippiemom wrote:
    You are not signing away your right to be treated with minimal standards of human decency. You couldn't operate a dog kennel that had mold growing all over the place and was overrun with vermin ... someone would report it to the county or call an investigative reporter and you'd be shut down. We should not treat people or animals that way in this country, least of all people who, as you have repeatedly pointed out, have willingly signed away some of their freedoms and suffered injuries on our behalf. These soldiers were being abused and no one was helping them until the Washington Post got involved. If that is what it took to get the Army to clean that place up, what would you have had them do? Lie there while the mice romped on their bandaged limbs?


    I NEVER defended those conditions. I think they're as deplorable as you do. I was making a general comment on the nature of being in the military.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    know1 wrote:
    I NEVER defended those conditions. I think they're as deplorable as you do. I was making a general comment on the nature of being in the military.

    Do you think the soldiers should break the rules stand up for themselves when being mistreated or should they simply follow orders and shut up??
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    know1 wrote:
    I NEVER defended those conditions. I think they're as deplorable as you do. I was making a general comment on the nature of being in the military.
    And now they're being punished for trying to get the Army to do what the Army should have been doing in the first place. The nature of being in the military does not include lying silent while you're treated like livestock or worse.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Abuskedti wrote:
    That of course is not true.. well with the exception of some movies. They recieve training - they have responsibilities.. they are trained to respect those with other responsibilities and to meet their own.

    The do not sign away any freedoms.


    Are you free to walk out the door and not look back without repercussions?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    know1 wrote:
    I don't know what "support the troops" means. I've never claimed to or asked anyone to do it. I wish them absolutely no ill will, and on some level I respect what they feel called to do, but I do not believe wars are justified.

    That being said, everyone knows that war is a possibility if you join the military, so they are joining at their own risk.

    Personally, there's a part of me who wishes nobody would ever join. It would be a lot harder to conduct a war if you had nobody willing to fight.

    They took the risk, did the job they were asked and survived. At this point, because they are incapable of carrying a gun back to the Middle East do they now deserve to be treated as a BURDEN to this Administration? Really, is sounds as if the unspoken line after shut up, was, Why didn't you cripples just die, you're useless.

    You don't have to be for or against a war. You don't have to believe in wars. But, you can't stand up and say hey - you knew what you volunteered for - then standby and watch as those that survived are treated like shit.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    puremagic wrote:
    They took the risk, did the job they were asked and survived. At this point, because they are incapable of carrying a gun back to the Middle East do they now deserve to be treated as a BURDEN to this Administration? Really, is sounds as if the unspoken line after shut up, was, Why didn't you cripples just die, you're useless.

    You don't have to be for or against a war. You don't have to believe in wars. But, you can't stand up and say hey - you knew what you volunteered for - then standby and watch as those that survived are treated like shit.

    Again, I never said that they deserved to be treated in an inferior hospital. My comments were directed in a more general vein.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01362111.htm

    WASHINGTON, March 1 (Reuters) - The head of the U.S. Army's top hospital was removed from his post on Thursday after troops wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were found to be living in shoddy conditions and struggling with a complex bureaucracy.

    An Army statement said top officials had lost confidence in Maj. Gen. George Weightman's ability "to address needed solutions for soldier outpatient care" at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

    "The care and welfare of our wounded men and women in uniform demand the highest standard of excellence and commitment that we can muster as a government," said Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

    "When this standard is not met, I will insist on swift and direct corrective action and, where appropriate, accountability up the chain of command," he said in a statement.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    know1 wrote:
    I do not consider banning them from talking to the media as punishment or treating them badly.


    maybe not, but i'd think making maimed and injured ppl, who got this way over a bullshit war, wake up at 6:00am and 'clean their room' for an inspection IS most definately a punishment! they should be resting, not cleaning their room.

    and did they complain or did they answer a reporters questions?

    why didn't you ever answer this question posed to you, know1???
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do you think the soldiers should break the rules stand up for themselves when being mistreated or should they simply follow orders and shut up??

    so they should've just sat there and taken it b/c they knew that's how it was when they joined? do you even have a heart?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    El_Kabong wrote:
    maybe not, but i'd think making maimed and injured ppl, who got this way over a bullshit war, wake up at 6:00am and 'clean their room' for an inspection IS most definately a punishment! they should be resting, not cleaning their room.

    and did they complain or did they answer a reporters questions?

    why didn't you ever answer this question posed to you, know1???



    so they should've just sat there and taken it b/c they knew that's how it was when they joined? do you even have a heart?

    Did they make EVERY soldier clean their room, or just the ones that were able? If they made any of them do this whose doctors said that they shouldn't or were incapable, then that is just wrong.

    As far as being "mistreated", that is open to interpretation and quite subjective. If they were/are truly being mistreated, then I agree they should do something about it.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    know1 wrote:
    Did they make EVERY soldier clean their room, or just the ones that were able? If they made any of them do this whose doctors said that they shouldn't or were incapable, then that is just wrong.

    As far as being "mistreated", that is open to interpretation and quite subjective. If they were/are truly being mistreated, then I agree they should do something about it.


    i don't think there's a question when you have rodents, mold, cockroaches...in their rooms that it's mistreatment, quotes not needed
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    El_Kabong wrote:
    i don't think there's a question when you have rodents, mold, cockroaches...in their rooms that it's mistreatment, quotes not needed

    I agree.

    The question is, were they asked not to talk to the media BEFORE this became a story, or after? Because after the story broke they were moving quickly to resolve it and people were held accountable.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    know1 wrote:
    I agree.

    The question is, were they asked not to talk to the media BEFORE this became a story, or after? Because after the story broke they were moving quickly to resolve it and people were held accountable.


    actually i heard on the news today that the guy they replaced the guy they fired about knew about the conditions since 2003 and did nothing about it, either...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    Army secretary quits in veterans scandal

    By Steve Holland and Kristin Roberts
    1 hour, 1 minute ago



    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Army Secretary Francis Harvey has resigned after reports that troops wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan were being poorly treated at the Army's top hospital, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Friday.


    The resignation of Harvey, the top civilian at the Pentagon overseeing the army, was announced a day after the head of the Walter Reed Medical Center hospital was fired. Gates said problems at the Washington hospital were due to leadership.

    "I am disappointed that some in the Army have not adequately appreciated the seriousness of the situation pertaining to outpatient care at Walter Reed," Gates said.

    "Some have shown too much defensiveness and have not shown enough focus on digging into and addressing the problems."

    Gates said a new permanent chief of the medical center would be announced later on Friday.

    The Bush administration has put Army surgeon-general Lt. Gen. Kevin Kiley, a former commander of Walter Reed, in temporary charge but that decision was criticized by some who noted Kiley had been accused of ignoring earlier complaints about outpatient care.

    Problems at an adjunct building of Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington were brought to light by a Washington Post investigation published last month. It found that recuperating soldiers were living in a dilapidated building infested with mice, mold and cockroaches.

    The Washington Post reports were particularly embarrassing because President George W. Bush and defense officials have repeatedly visited the wounded in the hospital to show their concern for those who served in battle.

    Bush, scrambling to respond to the outcry over shoddy health care and the complex bureaucracy facing U.S. soldiers, said he would name a bipartisan panel to review medical care for military veterans.

    "This is unacceptable to me, it is unacceptable to our country and it's not going to continue," Bush said in his weekly radio address, taped on Friday and released ahead of its usual Saturday morning delivery.

    Bush, who learned of the problems by reading the newspaper, said he was deeply troubled by the reports. He said while most of the people working at the hospital are dedicated professionals, "some of our troops at Walter Reed have experienced bureaucratic delays and living conditions that are less than they deserve."

    Members of the presidential commission are to be announced in coming days and will be given a deadline to report back. They will conduct a comprehensive review of the care that the U.S. government is providing the wounded.

    The White House said the bipartisan panel's review would be separate from a similar investigation ordered by the Pentagon.

    More than 10,000 U.S. troops in the Iraq war and more than 600 involved in the Afghan conflict have been wounded so seriously they were unable to return to duty within 72 hours, according to Pentagon statistics.






    it'll be interesting to see if these soliders really get treated the way that they truely deserve
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • Ten Dude
    Ten Dude Posts: 50
    Well, it's good to see that the $hit has hit the fan on this disgraceful issue. Maybe in the future, instead of just pointing fingers at the other side with platitudes of empty rhetoric, the two sides will actually try open, responsible governance.

    LOL. Yeah... right. :rolleyes:

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