Congress may act to keep guns from mentally ill

blackredyellow

hippiemom wrote:

I wouldn't know where to buy a weapon illegally, but thanks to Ohio law I don't have to. I know where to buy a used weapon where there's no paper trail and the guy who sold it to me doesn't even know my name. Any weekend of the year, I can do just that at a gun show, and they're advertised in the newspaper, it's all perfectly legal. Who needs black market guns when you've got the state helping out this way?

You're right, most of the other school shooters didn't buy most of their guns, they stole them, which is why there needs to be extremely harsh penalties for gun owners who fail to secure their guns and ammunition. That would prevent a huge number of accidental shootings as well, which kill more people than these occasional shooting sprees.

That is asinine in Ohio that they don't do background checks for firearm purchases at gun shows. All it takes is a 5 minute phone call to run the check and it amazes me that a state wouldn't make it mandatory.

And while I can't speak for Cho, I don't think that it would be hard to find a gun illegally. I work on the edge of a not so great part of town (Albany, NY) and I would bet that with a little effort, I could buy a gun or drugs or whatever.

The only reason that I'm not sure about Cho doing it, was because his roommates said that he never talked to anyone and he has some socialization issues... I don't know if he would have been able to do it.

onelongsong

reborncareerist wrote:

For sure ... Safe storage laws do save lives, that's actually been found in studies. Common sense would also dictate keeping anything dangerous safely stowed away.

and if someone steals your car and injures or kills someone; you should be held responsable for that too.
if we're throwing out the bill of rights; we need to do it in a way that everyone is treated equal.

know1

hippiemom wrote:

But would Cho have been able to do that? To buy a gun on the black market, you have to know someone on the black market, and it doesn't sound like this guy knew anyone at all, anywhere. It's like drugs ... sure, they're easy to buy if you know where to go, but for someone who doesn't use drugs or hang around with drug people, they wouldn't know where to start if they wanted to go pick up some crack, unless they lived in a neighborhood where drugs are traded pretty openly. I'm guessing Cho wouldn't have had the foggiest idea how to go about getting a gun if he hadn't been able to walk into a store and buy one.

What if his Dad had a gun and he took it? There are tons of scenarios for getting a gun illegally if you want one bad enough.

rebornFixer

blackredyellow wrote:

The only reason that I'm not sure about Cho doing it, was because his roommates said that he never talked to anyone and he has some socialization issues... I don't know if he would have been able to do it.

I agree with this as a potential barrier ... And obviously stopping this sort of person from getting a gun is a good thing. If this means strict laws, so be it. I think at a bare minimum background checks and a license should be mandatory. And yes, the possibility of mental illness should be considered. What I rail against a bit is this view that somehow more laws are a "miracle solution", though. The problem won't go away so easily.

onelongsong

reborncareerist wrote:

I agree with this as a potential barrier ... And obviously stopping this sort of person from getting a gun is a good thing. If this means strict laws, so be it. I think at a bare minimum background checks and a license should be mandatory. And yes, the possibility of mental illness should be considered. What I rail against a bit is this view that somehow more laws are a "miracle solution", though. The problem won't go away so easily.

we have a lot of privacy issues in this country. medical records are private; as are many other. the same number that would allow me access to a potential buyers background also gives me access to your's or anyone elses information.
i don't think he should have been allowed to buy a gun both on the mental illness issue but also because he's an alien. american's rights are for citizens.

blackredyellow

know1 wrote:

What if his Dad had a gun and he took it? There are tons of scenarios for getting a gun illegally if you want one bad enough.

But shouldn't we stop some of the easiest ways if we can?

That's like saying that we shouldn't even bother with car locks or anti-theft devices because if someone wants to steal it bad enough, then they will.

reborncareerist wrote:

I agree with this as a potential barrier ... And obviously stopping this sort of person from getting a gun is a good thing. If this means strict laws, so be it. I think at a bare minimum background checks and a license should be mandatory. And yes, the possibility of mental illness should be considered. What I rail against a bit is this view that somehow more laws are a "miracle solution", though. The problem won't go away so easily.

That's why I think a common sense approach needs to be taken... Saying that a gun control law is a silver bullet to solve our problems with gun violence to me is a asinine as saying that we should repeal all gun laws because they don't work.

If we can put enforceable legal barriers in place (across the country) like mandatory background checks, including trigger locks with all guns sold, punishing people who don't secure weapons and ammo, etc., I think that we can decrease the amount of gun violence just a little... And after all, a small decrease can save lives.

But I have no idea how to reduce the glorification of violence in our society... that is the biggest issue.

blackredyellow

onelongsong wrote:

we have a lot of privacy issues in this country. medical records are private; as are many other. the same number that would allow me access to a potential buyers background also gives me access to your's or anyone elses information.

I'm not sure that I see your concern about medical records... If a gun store owner calls or goes online to do a background check on someone, he doesn't have to see why the person is rejected, it could be for a criminal record, a medical reason or whatever. There is no loss of privacy for the potential purchaser's medical history.

onelongsong

blackredyellow wrote:

I'm not sure that I see your concern about medical records... If a gun store owner calls or goes online to do a background check on someone, he doesn't have to see why the person is rejected, it could be for a criminal record, a medical reason or whatever. There is no loss of privacy for the potential purchaser's medical history.

fair enough; but that information alone can be damaging.

rebornFixer

blackredyellow wrote:

But I have no idea how to reduce the glorification of violence in our society... that is the biggest issue.

When you look at homicide by firearm stats in the U.S., there are a few glaring patterns. One, most of the killing is done by young men in the 20-24 age range. The next highest group is the 16-20 age range. Believe it or not, homicides by gun have actually decreased since peaking in the early 90s ... What has sustained the relatively high rates is a large number of killings that are either gang or drug related ... There is a violent urban subculture driving a lot of the violence. Some have linked this subculture to "hip hop". You can use these stats to make racist arguments, of course, but the numbers don't lie: Young black men are way overrepresented in both offender and victim stats. This reflects social issues like poverty, bad parenting, racism ... It also reflects disturbing social values held by these young men, like positive attitudes towards violence and a need to be "tough" when responding to provocation.
Something needs to be done about THIS ... But nobody says much about it. Its the high profile school shootings that get the press.

69charger

soulsinging wrote:

take note folks. this is the response of a man trying desperately to recover some dignity after being made to look like the fool he is.

Sure Troll, whatever you say. I was just having fun.