Marine: Beating of Iraqis became routine
Rushlimbo
Posts: 832
I love humans.
========================================
A Marine corporal testifying in a court-martial said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to "crank up the violence level."
Cpl. Saul H. Lopezromo testified Saturday at the murder trial of Cpl. Trent D. Thomas.
"We were told to crank up the violence level," said Lopezromo, testifying for the defense.
When a juror asked for further explanation, Lopezromo said: "We beat people, sir."
Within weeks of allegedly being scolded, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman went out late one night to find and kill a suspected insurgent in the village of Hamandiya near the Abu Ghraib prison. The Marines and corpsman were from 2nd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment.
Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the "prince of jihad," and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system.
Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.
Four Marines and the corpsman, initially charged with murder in the April 2006 killing, have pleaded guilty to reduced charges and been given jail sentences ranging from 10 months to eight years. Thomas, 25, from St. Louis, pleaded guilty but withdrew his plea and is the first defendant to go to court-martial.
Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did.
"I don't see it as an execution, sir," he told the judge. "I see it as killing the enemy."
He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.
Lopezromo and two other Marines were charged in August with assaulting an Iraqi two weeks before the killing that led to charges against Thomas and the others. Charges against all three were later dropped.
Thomas' attorneys have said he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury from his combat duty in Fallouja in 2004. They have argued that Thomas believed he was following a lawful order to get tougher with suspected insurgents.
Prosecution witnesses testified that Thomas shot the 52-year-old man at point-blank range after he had already been shot by other Marines and was lying on the ground.
Lopezromo said a procedure called "dead-checking" was routine. If Marines entered a house where a man was wounded, instead of checking to see whether he needed medical aid, they shot him to make sure he was dead, he testified.
"If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice," he said.
The jury is composed of three officers and six enlisted personnel, all of whom have served in Iraq. The trial was set to resume Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070715/ap_on_re_us/marines_iraq_shooting;_ylt=AnrL3DL4iKEAlZ.fkztZKVsDW7oF
========================================
A Marine corporal testifying in a court-martial said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to "crank up the violence level."
Cpl. Saul H. Lopezromo testified Saturday at the murder trial of Cpl. Trent D. Thomas.
"We were told to crank up the violence level," said Lopezromo, testifying for the defense.
When a juror asked for further explanation, Lopezromo said: "We beat people, sir."
Within weeks of allegedly being scolded, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman went out late one night to find and kill a suspected insurgent in the village of Hamandiya near the Abu Ghraib prison. The Marines and corpsman were from 2nd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment.
Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the "prince of jihad," and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system.
Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.
Four Marines and the corpsman, initially charged with murder in the April 2006 killing, have pleaded guilty to reduced charges and been given jail sentences ranging from 10 months to eight years. Thomas, 25, from St. Louis, pleaded guilty but withdrew his plea and is the first defendant to go to court-martial.
Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did.
"I don't see it as an execution, sir," he told the judge. "I see it as killing the enemy."
He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.
Lopezromo and two other Marines were charged in August with assaulting an Iraqi two weeks before the killing that led to charges against Thomas and the others. Charges against all three were later dropped.
Thomas' attorneys have said he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury from his combat duty in Fallouja in 2004. They have argued that Thomas believed he was following a lawful order to get tougher with suspected insurgents.
Prosecution witnesses testified that Thomas shot the 52-year-old man at point-blank range after he had already been shot by other Marines and was lying on the ground.
Lopezromo said a procedure called "dead-checking" was routine. If Marines entered a house where a man was wounded, instead of checking to see whether he needed medical aid, they shot him to make sure he was dead, he testified.
"If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice," he said.
The jury is composed of three officers and six enlisted personnel, all of whom have served in Iraq. The trial was set to resume Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070715/ap_on_re_us/marines_iraq_shooting;_ylt=AnrL3DL4iKEAlZ.fkztZKVsDW7oF
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Well isn't that just swell.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Gee, I wonder why they aren't cooperating more?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I hope all of them go to jail, and they probably won't.
What you call forestbrain I call naive.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
People died in the past fighting the evil oppressive powers that be to have these liberties for themselves...for the people. Bush just shreds our liberties in our faces AND under extremely suspicious cirsumstances.
We are getting screwed. Support war and the warmongering mindset and you are only screwing yourself. You're letting yourself be screwed. You're giving them back the power.
Never trade your liberties for security. That's always a bad fucking deal!
Once you really understand what is going on you can spot those who are still brainwashed from a mile away.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
they are fighting their country's war. The US considers all Iraqis insurgents.. because they are. They oppose the US imposed government. Make no mistake, we as still at war with Iraq. We are not trying to help them in the least.
So you regard the murder of an innocent man as 'justice', and as 'the right thing to do'?
Interesting.
I believe that a person who murders should be punished. You're the naive one.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
sorry, way i, and most Americans see it...we are fighting this war with our hands tied behind our backs..no way to fight a war
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
You're right - rules of engagement is bullshit. We need more destruction and death - hopefully a couple more Abu Ghraib's for for a topper.
Just nuke em - right?
is the Iraqi baking story similar to the ole' incubator stories from Daddy Bush's Oil Save/ Kuwait "liberation"?
So you're saying that all "innocent" people in Iraq should be murdered?
It's from South Park... when Cartman killed the parents of the bully whose favorite band was 'Radiohead' and fed him chili made from their dead bodies and made him cry in front of his favorite band, 'Radiohead'... who told the bully he was a pussy because he was crying.
...
I heard it was a true story.
Hail, Hail!!!
Sweet love of man.
Between you and "Sponger" i am having a hard time even figuring out what some of the people who post here are even DOING on a PEARL JAM message board?
I know, i know: the music is one thing, the politics is another.
But love of man.
:(
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Love it, or leave it.
Good Lord man, what are you talking about???
Liking Pearl Jam means you have to hate Bush or be a fucking Democrat????
This is not a very bright outlook to have, considering I've been a Pearl Jam fan since they broke out.
Untill their will grows tired
I have to go with DC there. You can be a Pearl Jam fan and not agree with their politics. I would doubt that the band would want everybody to just mindlessly agree with their opinions. I happen to agree with them about 70% of the time, but even if I didn't I could still enjoy their music.
As far as this topic goes, I find it not to be as black and white as some people are making it out to be, but I find this particular act to be pretty disgusting. But given the small amount of information provided I don't think anybody can make a valid judgement on their actions. Especially since we are just sitting here at home all confy, and they are over there going through hell, and as the story said possibly suffering from some traumatic stress. But I don't think I'll be winning any kind of humanitarian award when I state that I am against the killing of innocent people, that goes without saying.
The Marines on the other hand, have to made day to day decisions on the ground with people shooting and dying all around them
Bush and Cheney have called virtually hundreds of different groups the enemy
that bullshit has to be translated into an actual plan on the ground.
We have no leadership at the top - just politicians.
So the translation is very very ugly
Thank you Irwin - Well said
Untill their will grows tired
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
That's what i say.
I understand why someone would act this way... Hell, i can almost guarantee you that I would be lighting up the place if I was stuck in that bullshit (which is why I would make a horrible soldier).
Do I condone it? no. Which is to admit that I would be wrong in taking out my frustration and anger on their people... to the soldier, we are there to help them... and they blow us up... I understand that and it must drive you nutz.
But, in the bigger picture... if we want to be the Good Guys... the Liberators not Occupiers... we HAVE to sit there and take it. The military is in a tough... TOUGH situation where the very worst option to take... is better than all of the other options. It is ugly over there and it'll continue to be ugly. We cannot judge what goes on over there, from the comfort of our fat, couch sitting asses. They are there because we put them there. We need to assume part of the blame.
Hail, Hail!!!
True. During the investigations into the My lai massacre it was only the troops on the ground who were held accountable. Whereas it should be those at the top pulling the strings and beating the war drums who are made to stand trial.
glad you agree
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
spoken like a true warrior sitting at his computer :rolleyes:
that was clever....i doubt you understand what i'm saying....
what i'm saying is that if you send people to war, let them fight, don't let politicians fight the war for them. the rules of engagement in iraq are assinine...period.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
People are still at the questioning stage? For me that was before the war even started. at this point a great number of us should be ready to burn the white house down. if you are still questioning the war now, what have you been doing for the past 3yrs? or however old the war is now.
I don't think you understand. If you believe in this war GO FIGHT IT! They need boots on the ground. Very funny(sad) clip about chickenhawks on Onegoodmove.org. Very hoorah for war but unfortunately they have asthma or are going to school or have better things to do. I'm sure you have an excuse.
Good point with the "send people to war, let them fight" bit. You need the entire country to get behind that logic for it to work. Fortunately we still have, in this country, voices of reason who recognize this war in Iraq is complete bullshit.