Marine: Beating of Iraqis became routine

Rushlimbo

I love humans.
========================================
A Marine corporal testifying in a court-martial said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to "crank up the violence level."

Cpl. Saul H. Lopezromo testified Saturday at the murder trial of Cpl. Trent D. Thomas.

"We were told to crank up the violence level," said Lopezromo, testifying for the defense.

When a juror asked for further explanation, Lopezromo said: "We beat people, sir."

Within weeks of allegedly being scolded, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman went out late one night to find and kill a suspected insurgent in the village of Hamandiya near the Abu Ghraib prison. The Marines and corpsman were from 2nd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment.

Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the "prince of jihad," and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system.

Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.

Four Marines and the corpsman, initially charged with murder in the April 2006 killing, have pleaded guilty to reduced charges and been given jail sentences ranging from 10 months to eight years. Thomas, 25, from St. Louis, pleaded guilty but withdrew his plea and is the first defendant to go to court-martial.

Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did.

"I don't see it as an execution, sir," he told the judge. "I see it as killing the enemy."

He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.

Lopezromo and two other Marines were charged in August with assaulting an Iraqi two weeks before the killing that led to charges against Thomas and the others. Charges against all three were later dropped.

Thomas' attorneys have said he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury from his combat duty in Fallouja in 2004. They have argued that Thomas believed he was following a lawful order to get tougher with suspected insurgents.

Prosecution witnesses testified that Thomas shot the 52-year-old man at point-blank range after he had already been shot by other Marines and was lying on the ground.

Lopezromo said a procedure called "dead-checking" was routine. If Marines entered a house where a man was wounded, instead of checking to see whether he needed medical aid, they shot him to make sure he was dead, he testified.

"If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice," he said.

The jury is composed of three officers and six enlisted personnel, all of whom have served in Iraq. The trial was set to resume Monday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070715/ap_on_re_us/marines_iraq_shooting;_ylt=AnrL3DL4iKEAlZ.fkztZKVsDW7oF

gue_barium

He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.

Well isn't that just swell.

sponger

Sometimes the legal system gets in the way of justice. These marines showed that they had the courage to carry out what was the right thing to do in spite of the consequences they might face.

Abookamongstthemany

gue_barium wrote:

Well isn't that just swell.

Gee, I wonder why they aren't cooperating more?

ForestBrain

sponger wrote:

Sometimes the legal system gets in the way of justice. These marines showed that they had the courage to carry out what was the right thing to do in spite of the consequences they might face.

What you call courage I call having no conscience. And what you call right I call wrong.
I hope all of them go to jail, and they probably won't.

sponger

ForestBrain wrote:

What you call courage I call having no conscience. And what you call right I call wrong.
I hope all of them go to jail, and they probably won't.

What you call forestbrain I call naive.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

When you're put in the position to give up your liberties out of fear...you're fucked.

People died in the past fighting the evil oppressive powers that be to have these liberties for themselves...for the people. Bush just shreds our liberties in our faces AND under extremely suspicious cirsumstances.

We are getting screwed. Support war and the warmongering mindset and you are only screwing yourself. You're letting yourself be screwed. You're giving them back the power.

Never trade your liberties for security. That's always a bad fucking deal!

Once you really understand what is going on you can spot those who are still brainwashed from a mile away.

Abuskedti

gue_barium wrote:

Well isn't that just swell.

they are fighting their country's war. The US considers all Iraqis insurgents.. because they are. They oppose the US imposed government. Make no mistake, we as still at war with Iraq. We are not trying to help them in the least.

Byrnzie

Rushlimbo wrote:

Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the "prince of jihad," and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system.

Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.

Prosecution witnesses testified that Thomas shot the 52-year-old man at point-blank range after he had already been shot by other Marines and was lying on the ground.

sponger wrote:

Sometimes the legal system gets in the way of justice. These marines showed that they had the courage to carry out what was the right thing to do in spite of the consequences they might face.

So you regard the murder of an innocent man as 'justice', and as 'the right thing to do'?
Interesting.

ForestBrain

sponger wrote:

What you call forestbrain I call naive.

I don't support killing innocent people...and that is naive of me?
I believe that a person who murders should be punished. You're the naive one.

sponger

Sometimes you just have to face the fact that the insurgency doesn't just succceed in its operations by the skin of its teeth. It is being supported by vast networks of "innocent bystanders". That doesn't exactly fit well with the fairy-tale picture of good and bad, but it's the way things are. That's why people who aren't there shouldn't pretend to know the difference.

Purple Hawk

is this supposed to move me when jihadists are baking iraqi kids to death and serving them to their parents?

sorry, way i, and most Americans see it...we are fighting this war with our hands tied behind our backs..no way to fight a war

FredFlintstone

Purple Hawk wrote:

is this supposed to move me when jihadists are baking iraqi kids to death and serving them to their parents?

sorry, way i, and most Americans see it...we are fighting this war with our hands tied behind our backs..no way to fight a war

You're right - rules of engagement is bullshit. We need more destruction and death - hopefully a couple more Abu Ghraib's for for a topper.
Just nuke em - right?

is the Iraqi baking story similar to the ole' incubator stories from Daddy Bush's Oil Save/ Kuwait "liberation"?

Byrnzie

sponger wrote:

Sometimes you just have to face the fact that the insurgency doesn't just succceed in its operations by the skin of its teeth. It is being supported by vast networks of "innocent bystanders". That doesn't exactly fit well with the fairy-tale picture of good and bad, but it's the way things are. That's why people who aren't there shouldn't pretend to know the difference.

So you're saying that all "innocent" people in Iraq should be murdered?

Rushlimbo wrote:

Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.

polaris

if all iraqi men are the enemy - then that means that all iraqi men do not want the US there ... so, unless ALL iraqi women feel the opposite - this is further proof that this war is a sham and that US presence is just prolonging the suffering ...

RainDog

FredFlintstone wrote:

is the Iraqi baking story similar to the ole' incubator stories from Daddy Bush's Oil Save/ Kuwait "liberation"?

It's an unverified story told through a translator to a man named Michael Yon. It could be an Iraqi urban legend, or it could be true. What it is, however, is red meat for freepers like Purple Hawk who need stories like this to keep them fired up about the war. In a way, true or not, it doesn't matter. The story's existance fills war supporters with outright joy as they think to themselves "oh man oh man. It's gonna be so sweet rubbing this one in those unpatriotic, heathen lefties' faces."

Cosmo

FredFlintstone wrote:

... is the Iraqi baking story similar to the ole' incubator stories from Daddy Bush's Oil Save/ Kuwait "liberation"?

...
It's from South Park... when Cartman killed the parents of the bully whose favorite band was 'Radiohead' and fed him chili made from their dead bodies and made him cry in front of his favorite band, 'Radiohead'... who told the bully he was a pussy because he was crying.
...
I heard it was a true story.

DriftingByTheStorm

Purple Hawk wrote:

is this supposed to move me when jihadists are baking iraqi kids to death and serving them to their parents?

sorry, way i, and most Americans see it...we are fighting this war with our hands tied behind our backs..no way to fight a war

Sweet love of man.
Between you and "Sponger" i am having a hard time even figuring out what some of the people who post here are even DOING on a PEARL JAM message board?

I know, i know: the music is one thing, the politics is another.

But love of man.
:(

Bu2

is why a great number of us are questioning this war.

Love it, or leave it.

DCGARDEN

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Sweet love of man.
Between you and "Sponger" i am having a hard time even figuring out what some of the people who post here are even DOING on a PEARL JAM message board?

I know, i know: the music is one thing, the politics is another.

But love of man.
:(

Good Lord man, what are you talking about???

Liking Pearl Jam means you have to hate Bush or be a fucking Democrat????

This is not a very bright outlook to have, considering I've been a Pearl Jam fan since they broke out.

IrwinFletcher80

DCGARDEN wrote:

Good Lord man, what are you talking about???

Liking Pearl Jam means you have to hate Bush or be a fucking Democrat????

This is not a very bright outlook to have, considering I've been a Pearl Jam fan since they broke out.

I have to go with DC there. You can be a Pearl Jam fan and not agree with their politics. I would doubt that the band would want everybody to just mindlessly agree with their opinions. I happen to agree with them about 70% of the time, but even if I didn't I could still enjoy their music.

As far as this topic goes, I find it not to be as black and white as some people are making it out to be, but I find this particular act to be pretty disgusting. But given the small amount of information provided I don't think anybody can make a valid judgement on their actions. Especially since we are just sitting here at home all confy, and they are over there going through hell, and as the story said possibly suffering from some traumatic stress. But I don't think I'll be winning any kind of humanitarian award when I state that I am against the killing of innocent people, that goes without saying.