civil disobedience

decides2dream

another thread got my curious...has anyone here or someone you know, actively participate in a true act of civil disobedience, in protest of our current war, or of any act of our government? witholding federal tax payments, protesting when/where not allowable....chaining/handcuffing oneself to public/government property in protest and being arrested...etc.....etc. i don't know anyone, nor have i done so myself....so it is merely curiosity to learn about the possible effectiveness of such actions, and the possible actions/repercussions of such acts.......


please do share any personal experience and/or stories........

chromiam

they're all in jail without internet access

decides2dream

chromiam wrote:

they're all in jail without internet access

and here i thought the prisions had all the best high-speed internet access. damn.


in all seriousness, i was/am hoping to read some stories..whether true personal experience or those people may know. as i said, someone suggested not paying federal taxes as protest of the war, and it got me thinking how far would i go in protest of something i believe in, what would i be willing to do...and yea, has anyone we actually know done such things?

Heineken Helen

decides2dream wrote:

and here i thought the prisions had all the best high-speed internet access. damn.


in all seriousness, i was/am hoping to read some stories..whether true personal experience or those people may know. as i said, someone suggested not paying federal taxes as protest of the war, and it got me thinking how far would i go in protest of something i believe in, what would i be willing to do...and yea, has anyone we actually know done such things?

Nah, I just bitch and moan all the time... but that's about it. I dunno, don't the FBI have files on everyone who protested in the 70s and stuff... or do I watch way too much tv? If I were American I'd think twice about protesting.

Hitch-Hiker

Heineken Helen wrote:

If I were American I'd think twice about protesting.

That right there is a huge problem. any Americans have this feeling?

Decides2Dream: The best I can do - I know a coupe of people who have gotten hurt (physically) by police while particiapating in completely peaceful protests. Nothing worse as far as I know.

Heineken Helen

Hitch-Hiker wrote:

That right there is a huge problem. any Americans have this feeling?

Well I see it in lots of tv programmes where they pull up files of people who were protesting years ago... now maybe it IS just tv but I've seen it so often there must be some relevance to it? That's pretty fucking ridiculous if it is true.

polaris

yes ... i have/will ...

the range of effectiveness varies - the thing people need to understand is that acts of CD are often a last resort - every organization is prepared to fight the battles in the courts and such but it is hard to win when faced against big money and gov'ts that answer only to big money ...

without public interest in these cases - you can't foster change ... so, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't ... more often then not - something in between happens ...

Jeanwah

I know someone who's gotten arrested a couple times for protesting and creating noise. He just had to pay a fine. And a friend of mine is part of a group in CA that riles up a group of people who are against Mexican immagration. She has a great time messing with people and it's all in good fun, no one's breaking the law, and she is getting her point across.

I believe it's the police that have more of a problem with peaceful protestors than anyone else simply because the lack of police control is there.

http://www.freewayblogger.com/

decides2dream

polaris wrote:

yes ... i have/will ...

the range of effectiveness varies - the thing people need to understand is that acts of CD are often a last resort - every organization is prepared to fight the battles in the courts and such but it is hard to win when faced against big money and gov'ts that answer only to big money ...

without public interest in these cases - you can't foster change ... so, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't ... more often then not - something in between happens ...

good for you!


and sure of course i realize the effectiveness will vary, but it obviously MUST do 'something' often enough, even if simply bring to light to a larger audience thru the media of an important issue. i guess that's why i am curious...b/c sure now and again you see some coverage of protests, and yes they usually are peaceful...and they do freak out the police no matter what b/c large crowds usually do make them feel out of control, etc.

i was just hoping for some real first-hand accounts....possible outcomes...but sure, this is a very small community, especially on the MT....so a very small chance, but hoped maybe at least one story.


anyway, it all reminds me of thoreau...walden pond........not paying taxes, being jailed for such....etc. so yea, i wondered if there was anyone here who followed such a path and what consequences arose from that.


more often than not, it does seem peaceful protests nowadays are allowed to remain as such, which is a GREAT thing, as it should be....but absolutely, sometimes things happen, people get hurt.....and i guess getting arrested/paying a fine....in the scheme of things not a bad thing to make your point.

Abookamongstthemany

decides2dream wrote:

more often than not, it does seem peaceful protests nowadays are allowed to remain as such, which is a GREAT thing, as it should be....but absolutely, sometimes things happen, people get hurt.....and i guess getting arrested/paying a fine....in the scheme of things not a bad thing to make your point.

I agree. Although it has been discussed here into the ground, we have stolen a few recruitment signs from in front of the local high school in the town I'm from. It bothered me to see them preying on young people out of the poorer neighborhood, especially when there aren't many jobs availiable in our area. I think joining the army is often a hasty decision made by those who don't see many other options. And, of course, there were no such signs in front of the local private academy. A few people here strongly disagreed with that I did but I still stand by it (and I really was hesistant to even post about it again because I didn't want to go rounds over this again). I've also taken recruitment pamplets out of the library...came very close to getting caught with that one. I've been to a few protests now but they have all been peaceful with no big disruptions.

Will stealing the signs make a huge difference over all? No, not even close. But, to me, if it made a difference in only one life, keeping one person from being shipped over there and coming back home in a box then it was worth it.

markymark550

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I agree. Although it has been discussed here into the ground, we have stolen a few recruitment signs from in front of the local high school in the town I'm from. It bothered me to see them preying on young people out of the poorer neighborhood, especially when there aren't many jobs availiable in our area. I think joining the army is often a hasty decision made by those who don't see many other options. And, of course, there were no such signs in front of the local private academy. A few people here strongly disagreed with that I did but I still stand by it (and I really was hesistant to even post about it again because I didn't want to go rounds over this again). I've also taken recruitment pamplets out of the library...came very close to getting caught with that one. I've been to a few protests now but they have all been peaceful with no big disruptions.

Will stealing the signs make a huge difference over all? No, not even close. But, to me, if it made a difference in only one life, keeping one person from being shipped over there and coming back home in a box then it was worth it.

taking a big risk there by showing some blue in a red state

baraka

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I agree. Although it has been discussed here into the ground, we have stolen a few recruitment signs from in front of the local high school in the town I'm from.

That pretty funny, abook! What did you do with the signs?

Abookamongstthemany

baraka wrote:

That pretty funny, abook! What did you do with the signs?

I still have them! They are under my bed.

polaris

decides2dream wrote:

good for you!


and sure of course i realize the effectiveness will vary, but it obviously MUST do 'something' often enough, even if simply bring to light to a larger audience thru the media of an important issue. i guess that's why i am curious...b/c sure now and again you see some coverage of protests, and yes they usually are peaceful...and they do freak out the police no matter what b/c large crowds usually do make them feel out of control, etc.

i was just hoping for some real first-hand accounts....possible outcomes...but sure, this is a very small community, especially on the MT....so a very small chance, but hoped maybe at least one story.


anyway, it all reminds me of thoreau...walden pond........not paying taxes, being jailed for such....etc. so yea, i wondered if there was anyone here who followed such a path and what consequences arose from that.


more often than not, it does seem peaceful protests nowadays are allowed to remain as such, which is a GREAT thing, as it should be....but absolutely, sometimes things happen, people get hurt.....and i guess getting arrested/paying a fine....in the scheme of things not a bad thing to make your point.

sorry ... i read NO personal stories ... i've got a few ... but it would take too much typing ...

in the end - it's about getting media exposure and the public to act ... the thing with the media exposure tho is that you are subject to their goals and biases ... the media is often only interested in selling papers - that's why the violence at globalization protests are the only images you see all the while there are thousands of people protesting peacefully without incident ...

surferdude

I don't stop at red lights on my bike, does that count? It's part of my civil disobediance over how badly green form of transportation are supported by cities. I also routinely treat red lights as stop signs late at night, part of my civil disobediance over how badly cities treat the attempt to properly flow traffic in order to reduce pollution. Don't wear a seatbelt as an act of defiance that the government cannot outlaw personal acts of stupidity.

gue_barium

I protest NCFan's constant plagiarism.

nick1977

Check out Henry David Thoreau....he protested the Mexican War and slavery by not paying taxes and spent a night in jail. He then wrote Civil Disobedience. I'm sure you already knew that, but I've been on a Thoreau kick lately and am reading his writings.

I've never participated in civil disobedience, but I do think that there are situations in which I would consider it.

Abookamongstthemany

markymark550 wrote:

taking a big risk there by showing some blue in a red state

haha...didn't see this earlier.

Yeah, I'm such a badass rebel! Seriously though, I have run into a few people here who act completely appalled and disgusted just because I see things differently than what they are used to seeing.

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

I protest NCFan's constant plagiarism.

angelica

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nah, I just bitch and moan all the time... but that's about it. I dunno, don't the FBI have files on everyone who protested in the 70s and stuff... or do I watch way too much tv? If I were American I'd think twice about protesting.

The FBI stuff is true. I've read a lot of true crime books. When the FBI files went public, there was all this stuff published about them monitoring Jane Fonda's, for example, war-protest activities. Maybe they don't watch everybody but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that they keep an eye on those individuals and movements that could threaten "security". Here's some examples of what you might be referring to that were posted on this board last year:

"Early last week, NBC reported the existence of a secret Department of Defense (DOD) database related to "potential terrorist threats." One example of identified "threats" is a group in Lake Worth, Florida that included five Quakers and a 79-year old grandmother who met at their local Quaker meeting house to discuss how to protest military recruiting at an area high school. Other examples of "threatening" events in the database included handing out literature in front of military recruiting stations and commemorating the second anniversary of the Iraq War. "

"The report by NBC News was followed last Friday by a story in the New York Times that President Bush has secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the U.S. without court-approved warrants. The President and the DOD now admit they've been spying on thousands of people in this country for simply exercising their constitutional rights. " http://www.afsc.org/news/2005/government-spying.htm

Abookamongstthemany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO