There is no fucking way...

DPrival78

TrixieCat wrote:

Again, 30 minutes is not a long time.
If you are parked on your couch watching reality tv, then yes, it is an eternity.
But 30 min to figure it out, get the word out, get the plan in action, get in the jets and take off, or re-route the course you are on and then shoot down a hi-jacked plane with civilians on board?
I still don't think there would have been enough time.

a lot can happen in 30 minutes. you would think that the necessary communication wouldn't take very long between the necessary people, and those f-15's fly at about 1800mph. alerts must have been heightened right after the first crash in NYC. and technically, they should have been heightened the minute that first plane veered from its flight plan. there was time to act, but no one did.

maybe the confusion amongst the faa and norad people caused by the drills that were being run played a factor. again, you won't see a crazier coincidence than that..

mammasan

Could there have been human error in intiating a timely response to the hijackings, probably. I believe that someone somewhere dropped the ball, but that does not equate to our government intentionally allowing 9/11 to occur simply to jump start some master plan.

It is pretty obvious that our intelligence and national security agencies failed miserably on this one and that the government has done all it can to avoid responsibility but none of the evidence out there points to this being orchestrated by or allowed to happen intentionally by our government.

even flow?

mammasan wrote:

Could there have been human error in intiating a timely response to the hijackings, probably. I believe that someone somewhere dropped the ball, but that does not equate to our government intentionally allowing 9/11 to occur simply to jump start some master plan.

It is pretty obvious that our intelligence and national security agencies failed miserably on this one and that the government has done all it can to avoid responsibility but none of the evidence out there points to this being orchestrated by or allowed to happen intentionally by our government.

For the record, there is more leads for your government being involved then there were valid reasons to drop bombs on Iraq and happen to let Saudi Arabia off the hook.

mammasan

even flow? wrote:

For the record, there is more leads for your government being involved then there were valid reasons to drop bombs on Iraq and happen to let Saudi Arabia off the hook.

Yes they let Saudi Arabia off the hook and are still letting Saudi Arabia get away with funding terrorism, so in that sense yes our government played a part, but there is no evidence to prove that our government planned or assisted in the execution of the 9/11 attacks.

I will be the first to admit that my government is fucked up. I will be one of the first and loudest to protest that actions of my government, but I have to say that the US government playing an active role in the killing of thousands of it's own citizens is even beyond them.

DPrival78

mammasan wrote:

I believe that someone somewhere dropped the ball, but that does not equate to our government intentionally allowing 9/11 to occur simply to jump start some master plan.

the master plan had been devised over the last few decades. one of the key documents supporting and describing that it said very clearly, that in order to carry out the plan, there would need to be a catastrophic and catalyzing pearl harbor-type event. a year after saying that, they get their event and off we go - taking over the middle east by force, using the fear generated by 9/11 and a bunch of lies about weapons that never existed.

do you attribute that to luck? or is it just another crazy coincidence?

prism

mammasan wrote:

Yes they let Saudi Arabia off the hook and are still letting Saudi Arabia get away with funding terrorism, so in that sense yes our government played a part, but there is no evidence to prove that our government planned or assisted in the execution of the 9/11 attacks.

I will be the first to admit that my government is fucked up. I will be one of the first and loudest to protest that actions of my government, but I have to say that the US government playing an active role in the killing of thousands of it's own citizens is even beyond them.

I agree with everything you just said.

it only makes sense that if the US government did plan or assisted in the 9/11 attacks wouldn't they have proclaimed that all or most of the hijackers were Iraqi's or even throw in that a few were from Iran? you know the evil doers, as apposed to the US's butt buddies the Saudis? just to make it seem that the governments and leaders of those evil middle eastern countries were the ones behind 9/11?

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

DPrival78 wrote:

the master plan had been devised over the last few decades. one of the key documents supporting and describing that it said very clearly, that in order to carry out the plan, there would need to be a catastrophic and catalyzing pearl harbor-type event. a year after saying that, they get their event and off we go - taking over the middle east by force, using the fear generated by 9/11 and a bunch of lies about weapons that never existed.

do you attribute that to luck? or is it just another crazy coincidence?

crazy coincidence. coincidences happen. You think that with the world the way it is and with our relationship with the middle east a "catastrophic and catalyzing pearl harbor-type event" wasn't inevitable? Something was bound to happen sooner or later.

TrixieCat

DPrival78 wrote:

alerts must have been heightened right after the first crash in NYC. and technically, they should have been heightened the minute that first plane veered from its flight plan. there was time to act, but no one did.

Alerts must have been heightened?? Were you around that morning? Were you watching it as it was happening? No one automatically assumed that it was a terrorist attack. And it wasn't even officially thought to be a terrorist attack until 'Holy cow, it happened again. And next door even.'
Did you see the way the PRESIDENT of the US was told what was going on?
I mean, who hasn't at this point. He sat there with that assinine look on his face. You couldn't tell if he was trying to figure out what the words meant in the children's book he was reading or if he was deciding what to do.
Even that small lapse in time is enough to make a plan fall off course. I just think you maybe a little unrealistic about the timeframe, is all.

DPrival78

MrSmith wrote:

crazy coincidence. coincidences happen. You think that with the world the way it is and with our relationship with the middle east a "catastrophic and catalyzing pearl harbor-type event" wasn't inevitable? Something was bound to happen sooner or later.

inevitable maybe, but what a coincidence that it happens when all these money and power hungry people who for decades had openly wished to basically take over the world militarily were in highly influential positions in the gov't.

hitler burned down the reichstag, blamed it on 'terrorists', and used it to scare people into supporting imperial war. why couldn't it happen here? because we're the "good ol' u.s. of a"?

mammasan

DPrival78 wrote:

the master plan had been devised over the last few decades. one of the key documents supporting and describing that it said very clearly, that in order to carry out the plan, there would need to be a catastrophic and catalyzing pearl harbor-type event. a year after saying that, they get their event and off we go - taking over the middle east by force, using the fear generated by 9/11 and a bunch of lies about weapons that never existed.

do you attribute that to luck? or is it just another crazy coincidence?

As someone already posted. If the US did orchestrate the 9/11 attacks or have a hand in orchestrating don't you think they would have placed the blame squarely on Iraq or Iran. Why place blame on some fanatic hiding out in some no man's land in Afghanistan. Placing blame on Iran or Iraq would have helped their cause even more.

Yes the document you speak of published by the Project for The New American Century does mention an attack on American soil in order to kick start this movement to Americanize the Middle East but I think that is mere coincidence. As I stated above if this was orchestrated by our own government you can be sure that the "evidence" would have lead directly to Baghdad or Tehran.

my2hands

mammasan wrote:

Yes the document you speak of published by the Project for The New American Century does mention an attack on American soil in order to kick start this movement to Americanize the Middle East but I think that is mere coincidence.

how many coincidences can you explain though... there seem to be far too many invloving that terrible day

DPrival78

TrixieCat wrote:

Alerts must have been heightened?? Were you around that morning? Were you watching it as it was happening? No one automatically assumed that it was a terrorist attack. And it wasn't even officially thought to be a terrorist attack until 'Holy cow, it happened again. And next door even.'
Did you see the way the PRESIDENT of the US was told what was going on?
I mean, who hasn't at this point. He sat there with that assinine look on his face. You couldn't tell if he was trying to figure out what the words meant in the children's book he was reading or if he was deciding what to do.
Even that small lapse in time is enough to make a plan fall off course. I just think you maybe a little unrealistic about the timeframe, is all.

i sure as hell would expect that alerts were heightened. the first plane veered off course and stopped responding to air traffic controllers well before it crashed. from that moment, protective measures should have been rolling. what, were these guys sitting around playing freecell when the first plane changed course and stopped responding? maybe they were, but i doubt that they would just look at each other and say, "huh, that's weird... oh well, i'm sure it's nothing serious.. pilots stop turn their transponders off and deviate from their flight paths all the time". they jumped right into action in the case of payne stewart's plane when it stopped responding, and intercepted it in 20 minutes. and that wasn't a part of any assumed terrorist attack. air traffic controllers don't just sit back and wait for terrorist attacks - they make sure planes fly where they're supposed to. as soon as that first plane make a left down the hudson river and wouldn't answer, it should have been intercepted. that it wasn't, is very troubling.. and then it happened 3 more times.

my2hands

DPrival78 wrote:

inevitable maybe, but what a coincidence that it happens when all these money and power hungry people who for decades had openly wished to basically take over the world militarily were in highly influential positions in the gov't.

hitler burned down the reichstag, blamed it on 'terrorists', and used it to scare people into supporting imperial war. why couldn't it happen here? because we're the "good ol' u.s. of a"?

false flag attacks are as old as war itself...

its in the history books, if anyone reads them anymore?

mammasan

my2hands wrote:

how many coincidences can you explain though... there seem to be far too many invloving that terrible day

Yes there are a lot of coincidences but what there is not is one shred of evidence that points to our government's evolvement in the attack. In 6 years not one single person, not one single leaked memo, absolutely nothing has surfaced to indicate that the Bush administration had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. Furthermore from the evidence gathered the plans for this attack where set in motion before the Bush administration took office so the conspiracy theorists should be looking at the Clinton administration as the culprit.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

just because it could happen doesnt mean it did. All evidence points to an outside attacker. That has also happened many times in the past, and far more often that some "false flag attack".

TrixieCat

DPrival78 wrote:

i sure as hell would expect that alerts were heightened. the first plane veered off course and stopped responding to air traffic controllers well before it crashed. from that moment, protective measures should have been rolling. what, were these guys sitting around playing freecell when the first plane changed course and stopped responding? maybe they were, but i doubt that they would just look at each other and say, "huh, that's weird... oh well, i'm sure it's nothing serious.. pilots stop turn their transponders off and deviate from their flight paths all the time". they jumped right into action in the case of payne stewart's plane when it stopped responding, and intercepted it in 20 minutes. and that wasn't a part of any assumed terrorist attack. air traffic controllers don't just sit back and wait for terrorist attacks - they make sure planes fly where they're supposed to. as soon as that first plane make a left down the hudson river and wouldn't answer, it should have been intercepted. that it wasn't, is very troubling.. and then it happened 3 more times.

Now you are saying the first one should have been intercepted?
Oh my.
So now, who was behind the first bombing? Clinton? Or was this an overflow plan from Daddy Bush? Why the hell was that amount of explosives let into the WTC? We can start arguing that now.
But the truth is, you just said it took 20 minutes to intercept Stewart's plane.

my2hands

no matter what anyone says...

there is no way that plane doesnt get intercepted


the military/norad/faa have thorough plans for these events and prepare for them all the time, and run drills all the time... fighters across the country are on alert and ready to takeoff at a moments notice... we are talking about the finest military in the world with wall to wall radar and tracking on every single commercial airliner that takes off in the country

the whole incompetant act/argument does not work for me.. that is always the excuse with this administration... you dont get to that positiion of extreme power by being incompetant

my2hands

again... i am not saying this is concrete proof for me at all...

i am just saying it is VERY strange to say the least

running identical drills that day? your kidding right? (think about that for a second) something is fucked up somewhere

mammasan

my2hands wrote:

no matter what anyone says...

there is no way that plane doesnt get intercepted


the military/norad/faa have thorough plans for these events and prepare for them all the time, and run drills all the time... fighters across the country are on alert and ready to takeoff at a moments notice... we are talking about the finest military in the world with wall to wall radar and tracking on every single commercial airliner that takes off in the country

the whole incompetant act/argument does not work for me.. that is always the excuse with this administration... you dont get to that positiion of extreme power by being incompetant

Yes someone fucked up and the administration is guilty of not being honest with the public about this. Someone also dropped the ball leading up to the attacks and again the administration is guilty of not being honest with the public about this as well. What the administration is not guilty of is orchestrating or playing an active hand in the attacks. This was the end result of an intelligence and national security failure that started back in the Clinton administration. Mohammed Atta was under CIA survellience from the start on 2000, but once he entered the US in June of 2000 our internal agencies dropped the ball and did not continue tracking his movements and activities. This tragedy was the result of failures across several government agencies under two different administrations not some diabolical plan to rule the world.

NCfan

my2hands wrote:

no matter what anyone says...

there is no way that plane doesnt get intercepted


the military/norad/faa have thorough plans for these events and prepare for them all the time, and run drills all the time... fighters across the country are on alert and ready to takeoff at a moments notice... we are talking about the finest military in the world with wall to wall radar and tracking on every single commercial airliner that takes off in the country

the whole incompetant act/argument does not work for me.. that is always the excuse with this administration... you dont get to that positiion of extreme power by being incompetant

Believe it or not, I would tend to agree with you, that these planes would have been intercepted. Then again, I can also see where something just went terribly wrong somewhere to prevent that from happening.

As ludacris as it sounds for a plane to be able to hit the Pentagon, there are other things out there that you wouldn't imagine possible either.

For instance, when you fly out of Reagan, planes bank hard left right after take-off to basically dodge the Washington monument. Doesn't that sound stupid? I mean, really... if some pilot wants to commit Harry Cary or something he could easily just fly right over to any building in downtown DC and crash his plane in under a minute. Nobody would get to them in time to shoot them down.

And now that I think about it, some pyscho did crash his plane into the fucking white house during the clinton presidency. Some nut job also pulled out an AK right in front of the WH too and shot the place up. And that is with dozens of secret service patrolling with binoculars, cameras, dogs, snipers on the roof - the whole thing. So could it happen.... yeah, I'm sad to say we fucked up that day.