Dear Conservative/Republican friends...

MrBrian

jlew24asu wrote:

what does this accomplish? we know who did and went after them to prevent it from happening again.

One more time, if you want to prevent it from happening again, find out why it happened, not go and bomb a country which ends up creating more terrorists.

jlew24asu

MrBrian wrote:

One more time, if you want to prevent it from happening again, find out why it happened, not go and bomb a country which ends up creating more terrorists.

both need to happen. taliban needed to be removed from power and el queda's training camps and free reign over the country needed to end.

MrBrian

mammasan wrote:

I agree that we should find out why these people attack and and work to rectify our policies that alienates these people, but at the sametime we need to act against aggressors as well. I for one don't believe for one second the whole "they hate us because of our freedoms" bullshit line the government and media feeds us. It's pretty damn apparent that they hate us because of our meddling in the affairs of their countries. We need to work on that because if we fail to do so we will only continue to fuel the fire and they will continue to breed more terrorists. I think after 9/11 there was definitely a huge blood lust in the American public. We had just watched 3,000 people die, the WTC center be destroyed, and the Pentagon attacked. People definitely wanted revenge and that is a pretty normal reaction. I still to this day support our actions in Afghanistan but I do not approve of the manner in which we carried the mission out. The people behind the attacks, and those that aided them, where there and we needed to get them. Did we do a good job? HELL NO!!! Plain and simple we fucked up. Not because our troops and commanders where inept but because the people at the top really had their sights on another target and this was just a stepping stone, when it really should have been the primary target.

I understand those points. But I think for once america shouldve humbled itself and not attack. bcoz as you know, whatever way you bombed afghanistan, it would end up creating more hate. which is what we dont want.

Perhaps as you said or also believe,america shouldve at once stopped meddling around and change its entire foreign policy. Try that out for a change since the aggressive ways of the red,white and blue tend not to work very well in the long run.

jlew24asu

MrBrian wrote:

I understand those points. But I think for once america shouldve humbled itself and not attack. bcoz as you know, whatever way you bombed afghanistan, it would end up creating more hate. which is what we dont want.

and let the taliban and el queda stay in power?

MrBrian wrote:

Perhaps as you said or also believe,america shouldve at once stopped meddling around and change its entire foreign policy. Try that out for a change since the aggressive ways of the red,white and blue tend not to work very well in the long run.

finally something we agree on.

MrBrian

jlew24asu wrote:

both need to happen. taliban needed to be removed from power and el queda's training camps and free reign over the country needed to end.

Taliban is making a comeback and soon more camps will open. so you still believe the war was justified?

On that note, Bush attacked iraq for what reasons again? So if someone now attacks america based on america attacking iraq. you will believe this to be justified bcoz the bush government is bad and the cia (which is a terrorist group) has training camps around the US?

jlew24asu

MrBrian wrote:

Taliban is making a comeback and soon more camps will open. so you still believe the war was justified?

yes it was. and I wish we would leave Iraq and focus our efforts there

MrBrian wrote:

On that note, Bush attacked iraq for what reasons again? So if someone now attacks america based on america attacking iraq. you will believe this to be justified bcoz the bush government is bad and the cia (which is a terrorist group) has training camps around the US?

no I do not think attacks on america are justified. nice to see you do.

mammasan

MrBrian wrote:

Taliban is making a comeback and soon more camps will open. so you still believe the war was justified?

On that note, Bush attacked iraq for what reasons again? So if someone now attacks america based on america attacking iraq. you will believe this to be justified bcoz the bush government is bad and the cia (which is a terrorist group) has training camps around the US?

Well we needed to do something about the Taliban and Al Qaida. The mistake we made was to ignore the reality of the situation and simply refused to believe that we had any hand in creating this hatred. We failed to address the underlying problem. Had we changed our policy after taking out the leadership of both organizations we could have started to stem the flow of new recruits into these organizations and started a positive change to our image as seen by the average poor muslim in the Middle East.

cincybearcat

MrBrian wrote:

I remember the pro war bunch quite well. But I'm sure they will support the next war when it happens. Then say "I was wrong again...oopps"

---

and I agree with saturnal. well posted

This is the attitude that stifles discussion. Nice work, as usual coming from you.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

cincybearcat wrote:

This is the attitude that stifles discussion. Nice work, as usual coming from you.

It's true though. Some people like the war, and trust the government no matter what. It's a dying breed though.

MrBrian

cincybearcat wrote:

This is the attitude that stifles discussion. Nice work, as usual coming from you.

Thats fine, you ignore everytg else I post and choose only what you dislike, you may have changed in your ways of thinking about wars, but you still an asshole.

my2hands

MrBrian wrote:

Thats fine, you ignore everytg else I post and choose only what you dislike, you may have changed in your ways of thinking about wars, but you still an asshole.

now there is some old school MT love!!!



i knew you guys had it in ya

Cosmo

my2hands wrote:

You do realize that Bill Clinton was more of a conservative president then Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2?

you do realize that dont you?


I am only pointing this out because i find it funny how many "conservatives" have no idea what being a "conservative" means... it means more than bible thumping folks... real life policy here... foreign and domestic...


discuss

...
I'm a Republican... and a Conservative. Although, I admit to be a Middle of the Road type... because along either edge is where the loonies drive.
I AM for a strong National Defense. As in DEFENSE. Defense of our Nation and of our Constitution. Trapsing off half way around the world to take on an offensive War of Chosing against another nation is NOT one of my Ideals. The best way to defend us is by having the people of other nations not hate us. Help the people of other nations, not pay the politicians of other nations.
I believe in paying my fair share of the Tax Burden. Someone has to pay for those B-2 Bombers and F-22 Fighters. I oppose some of the spending that BOTH Republicans and Democrats do. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans DON'T tax and SPEND. The money has to come from somewhere. How is it that Republicans can tout out this 'Personal Responsibility' crap and continually pass on their expenditures to their kids? Curb the spending if you are going to cut the taxes. If you want to run a War of Choosing... raise the taxes to pay for the fucking shit, you goddamn cowards.
I am against a big government. Especially an BIG INTRUSIVE government. If the fuckers want to tap my phones... get a fucking warrant. Don't shred my right under the false claim of protecting me. Protect me from the fuckers in Washington trying to shred my Constutution.
I'm for Law And Order. Obey the laws or pay the penalty. But, I've changed my view on the Death Penalty. I am now against it. WHY? Because I have seen too many cases where someone who was innocent of a crime, but found guilty by a Court of Law. And if someone is guilty... a life sentence is pretty servere. Anyone that thinks prison is some sort of resort is... well, just fucking stupid. If you want to prove your point... go ahead and attempt to rob a bank to see what prison is really like. Try to convince me that your nightly butt pounding is 'comfy'.
As for Gun Control... I believe in the Second Amendment... but, I also believe that some sort of regulation is in order. I mean, the Second Amendment even states such:
"A well REGULATED Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Having a bunch of morons running around with guns doesn't make me feel any safer. it makes me feel fucking nervous.
And on Abortion. I believe in a Woman's right to choose. I don't feel Government has a say is what she should choose or not. That that anti-Big Government part that i thought Conservatives embraced. I would HOPE that she would choose something other than abortion as an option... but, as long as abortion is a LEGAL option for her... it's HER choice, not mine... not yours.
As for religion... again, the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't want a Theocracy here. I can see Theocracies in action in the Middle East and I don't like them. There is no way in fucking Hell that anyone is ever going to convince me that a Christian Theocracy is any better than an Islamic Theocracy. Just choose YOUR religion and live by it... don't pass your religious beliefs on me.
And yes... I believe in personal responsibility. I am responsible for my actions. If I get caught in a public bathroom soliciting an undercover cop for sex... I'll fucking admit it. But, that will NEVER happen because I will NEVER do that. If you get caught, don't fucking LIE about a 'wide stance... or say you went to rehab for a week and are 'Cured of Homosexuality'... just fucking admit it... don't fucking LIE.
Finally... I believe this nation... the wealthiest nation on the planet... should not have our people homeless. I really don't care how they got there, I just see they are where they are at and need my help. I'd rather see my tax dollars go into sheltering people from the cold than funneling my dollars into the pockets of assholes like Musharaff. We are fucking America, goddammit. America isn't supposed to have kids living on skid row.

fanch75

Cosmo wrote:

skid row.

What an awesome band! I hear Sebastian Bach's new solo album "Angel Down" is great!

WE ARE THE YOUTH GONE WILD!

mammasan

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm a Republican... and a Conservative. Although, I admit to be a Middle of the Road type... because along either edge is where the loonies drive.
I AM for a strong National Defense. As in DEFENSE. Defense of our Nation and of our Constitution. Trapsing off half way around the world to take on an offensive War of Chosing against another nation is NOT one of my Ideals. The best way to defend us is by having the people of other nations not hate us. Help the people of other nations, not pay the politicians of other nations.
I believe in paying my fair share of the Tax Burden. Someone has to pay for those B-2 Bombers and F-22 Fighters. I oppose some of the spending that BOTH Republicans and Democrats do. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans DON'T tax and SPEND. The money has to come from somewhere. How is it that Republicans can tout out this 'Personal Responsibility' crap and continually pass on their expenditures to their kids? Curb the spending if you are going to cut the taxes. If you want to run a War of Choosing... raise the taxes to pay for the fucking shit, you goddamn cowards.
I am against a big government. Especially an BIG INTRUSIVE government. If the fuckers want to tap my phones... get a fucking warrant. Don't shred my right under the false claim of protecting me. Protect me from the fuckers in Washington trying to shred my Constutution.
I'm for Law And Order. Obey the laws or pay the penalty. But, I've changed my view on the Death Penalty. I am now against it. WHY? Because I have seen too many cases where someone who was innocent of a crime, but found guilty by a Court of Law. And if someone is guilty... a life sentence is pretty servere. Anyone that thinks prison is some sort of resort is... well, just fucking stupid. If you want to prove your point... go ahead and attempt to rob a bank to see what prison is really like. Try to convince me that your nightly butt pounding is 'comfy'.
As for Gun Control... I believe in the Second Amendment... but, I also believe that some sort of regulation is in order. I mean, the Second Amendment even states such:
"A well REGULATED Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Having a bunch of morons running around with guns doesn't make me feel any safer. it makes me feel fucking nervous.
And on Abortion. I believe in a Woman's right to choose. I don't feel Government has a say is what she should choose or not. That that anti-Big Government part that i thought Conservatives embraced. I would HOPE that she would choose something other than abortion as an option... but, as long as abortion is a LEGAL option for her... it's HER choice, not mine... not yours.
As for religion... again, the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't want a Theocracy here. I can see Theocracies in action in the Middle East and I don't like them. There is no way in fucking Hell that anyone is ever going to convince me that a Christian Theocracy is any better than an Islamic Theocracy. Just choose YOUR religion and live by it... don't pass your religious beliefs on me.
And yes... I believe in personal responsibility. I am responsible for my actions. If I get caught in a public bathroom soliciting an undercover cop for sex... I'll fucking admit it. But, that will NEVER happen because I will NEVER do that. If you get caught, don't fucking LIE about a 'wide stance... or say you went to rehab for a week and are 'Cured of Homosexuality'... just fucking admit it... don't fucking LIE.
Finally... I believe this nation... the wealthiest nation on the planet... should not have our people homeless. I really don't care how they got there, I just see they are where they are at and need my help. I'd rather see my tax dollars go into sheltering people from the cold than funneling my dollars into the pockets of assholes like Musharaff. We are fucking America, goddammit. America isn't supposed to have kids living on skid row.

Damn that brought a tear to my eye. Beautifully said.

Cosmo

fanch75 wrote:

What an awesome band! I hear Sebastian Bach's new solo album "Angel Down" is great!

WE ARE THE YOUTH GONE WILD!

...
I HOPE you are kidding. I think the only thing that would have been worse than the wave of Aqua-Net bands of the 80s would have been if they were all Christian Rock bands.

Commy

fanch75 wrote:

What an awesome band! I hear Sebastian Bach's new solo album "Angel Down" is great!

WE ARE THE YOUTH GONE WILD!

ricky was a young boy...

fanch75

It's true, I love Skid Row and all the good metal/hard rock that came from that genre (there was a bunch of shit but I love the good stuff).

Anyway, don't let me interrupt - I just can't resist an opp to give props to Skid Row. Continue on.

my2hands

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm a Republican... and a Conservative. Although, I admit to be a Middle of the Road type... because along either edge is where the loonies drive.
I AM for a strong National Defense. As in DEFENSE. Defense of our Nation and of our Constitution. Trapsing off half way around the world to take on an offensive War of Chosing against another nation is NOT one of my Ideals. The best way to defend us is by having the people of other nations not hate us. Help the people of other nations, not pay the politicians of other nations.
I believe in paying my fair share of the Tax Burden. Someone has to pay for those B-2 Bombers and F-22 Fighters. I oppose some of the spending that BOTH Republicans and Democrats do. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans DON'T tax and SPEND. The money has to come from somewhere. How is it that Republicans can tout out this 'Personal Responsibility' crap and continually pass on their expenditures to their kids? Curb the spending if you are going to cut the taxes. If you want to run a War of Choosing... raise the taxes to pay for the fucking shit, you goddamn cowards.
I am against a big government. Especially an BIG INTRUSIVE government. If the fuckers want to tap my phones... get a fucking warrant. Don't shred my right under the false claim of protecting me. Protect me from the fuckers in Washington trying to shred my Constutution.
I'm for Law And Order. Obey the laws or pay the penalty. But, I've changed my view on the Death Penalty. I am now against it. WHY? Because I have seen too many cases where someone who was innocent of a crime, but found guilty by a Court of Law. And if someone is guilty... a life sentence is pretty servere. Anyone that thinks prison is some sort of resort is... well, just fucking stupid. If you want to prove your point... go ahead and attempt to rob a bank to see what prison is really like. Try to convince me that your nightly butt pounding is 'comfy'.
As for Gun Control... I believe in the Second Amendment... but, I also believe that some sort of regulation is in order. I mean, the Second Amendment even states such:
"A well REGULATED Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Having a bunch of morons running around with guns doesn't make me feel any safer. it makes me feel fucking nervous.
And on Abortion. I believe in a Woman's right to choose. I don't feel Government has a say is what she should choose or not. That that anti-Big Government part that i thought Conservatives embraced. I would HOPE that she would choose something other than abortion as an option... but, as long as abortion is a LEGAL option for her... it's HER choice, not mine... not yours.
As for religion... again, the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't want a Theocracy here. I can see Theocracies in action in the Middle East and I don't like them. There is no way in fucking Hell that anyone is ever going to convince me that a Christian Theocracy is any better than an Islamic Theocracy. Just choose YOUR religion and live by it... don't pass your religious beliefs on me.
And yes... I believe in personal responsibility. I am responsible for my actions. If I get caught in a public bathroom soliciting an undercover cop for sex... I'll fucking admit it. But, that will NEVER happen because I will NEVER do that. If you get caught, don't fucking LIE about a 'wide stance... or say you went to rehab for a week and are 'Cured of Homosexuality'... just fucking admit it... don't fucking LIE.
Finally... I believe this nation... the wealthiest nation on the planet... should not have our people homeless. I really don't care how they got there, I just see they are where they are at and need my help. I'd rather see my tax dollars go into sheltering people from the cold than funneling my dollars into the pockets of assholes like Musharaff. We are fucking America, goddammit. America isn't supposed to have kids living on skid row.

perfectly stated...

*applauds*

cincybearcat

MrBrian wrote:

Thats fine, you ignore everytg else I post and choose only what you dislike, you may have changed in your ways of thinking about wars, but you still an asshole.

I haven't been here in a long time, but I have read everything you have written in this post. And I still say that your attitude is part of the problem. And it will continue ot be until you decide to become a better person.

cincybearcat

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm a Republican... and a Conservative. Although, I admit to be a Middle of the Road type... because along either edge is where the loonies drive.
I AM for a strong National Defense. As in DEFENSE. Defense of our Nation and of our Constitution. Trapsing off half way around the world to take on an offensive War of Chosing against another nation is NOT one of my Ideals. The best way to defend us is by having the people of other nations not hate us. Help the people of other nations, not pay the politicians of other nations.
I believe in paying my fair share of the Tax Burden. Someone has to pay for those B-2 Bombers and F-22 Fighters. I oppose some of the spending that BOTH Republicans and Democrats do. Democrats tax and spend, Republicans DON'T tax and SPEND. The money has to come from somewhere. How is it that Republicans can tout out this 'Personal Responsibility' crap and continually pass on their expenditures to their kids? Curb the spending if you are going to cut the taxes. If you want to run a War of Choosing... raise the taxes to pay for the fucking shit, you goddamn cowards.
I am against a big government. Especially an BIG INTRUSIVE government. If the fuckers want to tap my phones... get a fucking warrant. Don't shred my right under the false claim of protecting me. Protect me from the fuckers in Washington trying to shred my Constutution.
I'm for Law And Order. Obey the laws or pay the penalty. But, I've changed my view on the Death Penalty. I am now against it. WHY? Because I have seen too many cases where someone who was innocent of a crime, but found guilty by a Court of Law. And if someone is guilty... a life sentence is pretty servere. Anyone that thinks prison is some sort of resort is... well, just fucking stupid. If you want to prove your point... go ahead and attempt to rob a bank to see what prison is really like. Try to convince me that your nightly butt pounding is 'comfy'.
As for Gun Control... I believe in the Second Amendment... but, I also believe that some sort of regulation is in order. I mean, the Second Amendment even states such:
"A well REGULATED Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Having a bunch of morons running around with guns doesn't make me feel any safer. it makes me feel fucking nervous.
And on Abortion. I believe in a Woman's right to choose. I don't feel Government has a say is what she should choose or not. That that anti-Big Government part that i thought Conservatives embraced. I would HOPE that she would choose something other than abortion as an option... but, as long as abortion is a LEGAL option for her... it's HER choice, not mine... not yours.
As for religion... again, the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I don't want a Theocracy here. I can see Theocracies in action in the Middle East and I don't like them. There is no way in fucking Hell that anyone is ever going to convince me that a Christian Theocracy is any better than an Islamic Theocracy. Just choose YOUR religion and live by it... don't pass your religious beliefs on me.
And yes... I believe in personal responsibility. I am responsible for my actions. If I get caught in a public bathroom soliciting an undercover cop for sex... I'll fucking admit it. But, that will NEVER happen because I will NEVER do that. If you get caught, don't fucking LIE about a 'wide stance... or say you went to rehab for a week and are 'Cured of Homosexuality'... just fucking admit it... don't fucking LIE.
Finally... I believe this nation... the wealthiest nation on the planet... should not have our people homeless. I really don't care how they got there, I just see they are where they are at and need my help. I'd rather see my tax dollars go into sheltering people from the cold than funneling my dollars into the pockets of assholes like Musharaff. We are fucking America, goddammit. America isn't supposed to have kids living on skid row.

Well said. Expect for 1 issue any how.