For heterosexuals, sex is always about pro-creation. It's just a matter of time and will. Perhaps the individual act might not pro-create, but across the spectrum of time, the couple will pro-create IF THEY WANT TO.
and if they don't? is having one's tubes tied sinful? vasectomy?
sex isn't about procreation fi you are engaging in sex at the moment with no intention and a strong opposition to pregnancy. that is like saying it's ok to steal as long as in the long term you think maybe you might decide not to steal anymore. it's ridiculous.
there is a difference. saying i occasionally lie but strive not to or have occasionally stolen but try not to is different from saying "sure pre-marital sex is wrong but i don't care and will continue to do it whenever i feel like it and will also condemn all others who engage in similar behavior for it becos my situation is special." there is a huge difference between falling short of perfection and simply disregarding values. it would be like saying stealing is wrong, but it's ok for me to steal cars at gunpoint becos that's an ok exception.
Maybe CorporateWhore thinks homosexual sex acts are wrong and doesn't indulge in them at all. Does that make him correct in thinking homosexual sex acts are wrong just because he doesn't do them? Attack the idea and not the person.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Why are they working for the caucasian population in Texas?
And you did read the part where it said the teen rate is going down, right? So it is working better than the previous program.
the theory i proposed... income and education. let's see the stats broken down by poor white people in trailer parks vs. rich white suburban teens, and black middle class families vs. blacks in the ghetto. only they probly don't track that becos 1) race is such a better headline for scare tactics and 2) anything that might cause people to question the fairness of the completely unchecked capitalist system that creates huge opoprtunity disparity is taboo.
Maybe CorporateWhore thinks homosexual sex acts are wrong and doesn't indulge in them at all. Does that make him correct in thinking homosexual sex acts are wrong just because he doesn't do them? Attack the idea and not the person.
How about attacking the concept of saying an act is a sin but living like it doesn't matter?
This thread is one of the reasons why I detest organized religion.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Maybe CorporateWhore thinks homosexual sex acts are wrong and doesn't indulge in them at all. Does that make him correct in thinking homosexual sex acts are wrong just because he doesn't do them? Attack the idea and not the person.
i am attacking the idea. the idea that there is a distinction between the type of sexual act in catholic theology is nonsense. all immoral sexual behavior is a mortal sin of lust. it doesn't matter if it's gangbangs, homosexual acts, or pre-marital sex for the sake of feeling good by having sex with no intention of children. these all fall under the same cloak according to the belief system he claims to espouse. like i said, it's like saying stealing is wrong, but certain kinds of stealing are ok... and we're back to "stealing is wrong, unless im stealing a car in which case it's ok." im asking him to resolve the contradictions in his own ideas. he's not. he's just ignoring the inconvenient ones or distorting them.
i am attacking the idea. the idea that there is a distinction between the type of sexual act in catholic theology is nonsense. all immoral sexual behavior is a mortal sin of lust. it doesn't matter if it's gangbangs, homosexual acts, or pre-marital sex for the sake of feeling good by having sex with no intention of children. these all fall under the same cloak according to the belief system he claims to espouse. like i said, it's like saying stealing is wrong, but certain kinds of stealing are ok... and we're back to "stealing is wrong, unless im stealing a car in which case it's ok." im asking him to resolve the contradictions in his own ideas. he's not. he's just ignoring the inconvenient ones or distorting them.
You don't think you've been trying to attack CorporateWhore?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Why are they working for the caucasian population in Texas?
And you did read the part where it said the teen rate is going down, right? So it is working better than the previous program.
it also says it's declining at a slower rate that other states.
I'll say one thing, if they are also teaching about condom use with the abstinence, then that's great, if not, seems ignorant to me with the undisputed fact that sex sells most everything in our country, including comic books, cartoons (those more for teens, than younger kids), etc...
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
at a slower rate than other states...I'm just saying focusing on abstinence only doesn't seem very smart in our sex sells country. I would also say that the so called "everything but" approach is kind of rediculous also. I think it's smart to include proper condom use, but I'm not a parent at the moment, so I'm not thinking my opinion is more important than a parents.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
You don't think you've been trying to attack CorporateWhore?
i attack him all the time. id not hide it if i was at him. see the executing hitler thread if you like
in any case, this thread isn't about homosexuality so i'll stop now. my original disgust was with his "idea" that the cause for the discrepancy you noted was that minority women are all just sex crazed. it's a ridiculous contention and he still has produced no proof to support his contention. if it were true, id never date another prudish, stuffy white girl again. latin women can be so fucking hot!
the theory i proposed... income and education. let's see the stats broken down by poor white people in trailer parks vs. rich white suburban teens, and black middle class families vs. blacks in the ghetto. only they probly don't track that becos 1) race is such a better headline for scare tactics and 2) anything that might cause people to question the fairness of the completely unchecked capitalist system that creates huge opoprtunity disparity is taboo.
I would think the more unfortunate would have higher rates than those of their race that are better off.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
id never date another prudish, stuffy white girl again. latin women can be so fucking hot!
I'd sugges this any way except for you'd be passing up some of the fine and intelligent ladies of this board like Abbok and Angelica.
I agree that the differences come down to a socio-economic type thing. I actually think there is very little institutionalized racism or sexism anymore. Governments just seem to hate poor people now. They don't care about race, sex, creed or sexual orientation. If your poor it's your own damn fault and they hate you for it.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I would think the more unfortunate would have higher rates than those of their race that are better off.
that's what im saying. i think this has far more to do with class than race. rich people have health care, strong education, stable families, supoprt networks, birth control prescrips, etc. the poor do not have these luxuries. and since a much higher proportion of minorities are poor/in poverty, im not surprised their teen pregnancy rates are much higher.
I'd sugges this any way except for you'd be passing up some of the fine and intelligent ladies of this board like Abbok and Angelica.
I agree that the differences come down to a socio-economic type thing. I actually think there is very little institutionalized racism or sexism anymore. Governments just seem to hate poor people now. They don't care about race, sex, creed or sexual orientation. If your poor it's your own damn fault and they hate you for it.
nothing against them, but id kill either of those women if i got involved with them... or they'd kill me
but yeah, i think racism is on the wane. the old prejudices are all but dead. the problem now is classism, which is much more subtle. it's hard to blame someone for being black, but easy to blame them for being poor. and the devotion to unfettered capitalism spreads an almost darwinistic ideal at times. it's so ignrained in this country that it's VERY hard to talk about or combat.
Just using your post, this is no way directed at you. But....If you came from a family where you were male and raised by a mother that you watched struggle and never knew your father. Why would you go out and pull the same stunt and think it right? I'm always curious to why that happens repeatedly.
I agree but to take another view... if you're a boy and grow up and all of your role models have kids with different women, all of your music and culture portrays it, and you have nothing telling you that it's wrong, that's a problem.
When I was in high school, of course we had sex... and there were some people who got caught up in the status of getting so many girls or whatever, but we (as middle class kids from decent families) did everything we could to avoid getting girls pregnant. Sure some kids did stupid things, but there was always that fear that a) your parents would kill you and b) your life would be over - couldn't go away to college or whatever... when you don't have those two things to worry about, I can see how you wouldn't care.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
but yeah, i think racism is on the wane. the old prejudices are all but dead. the problem now is classism, which is much more subtle. it's hard to blame someone for being black, but easy to blame them for being poor. and the devotion to unfettered capitalism spreads an almost darwinistic ideal at times. it's so ignrained in this country that it's VERY hard to talk about or combat.
Agree. I think the thread went off when it was giving too much weight to how religious doctrine affects the rates. First it was unfounded and then using religious doctrine as the reason then pointed out what hypocrites religious people are. Not quite realizing they were cutting their arguement off at the knees at that point. It's hard to argue that people are hypocrites and they don't follow doctrine but birth rates are higher because of religion.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Agree. I think the thread went off when it was giving too much weight to how religious doctrine affects the rates. First it was unfounded and then using religious doctrine as the reason then pointed out what hypocrites religious people are. Not quite realizing they were cutting their arguement off at the knees at that point. It's hard to argue that people are hypocrites and they don't follow doctrine but birth rates are higher because of religion.
they're all yours man, hehe.
yeah, i dont think i was very clear with my original post mentioning catholicism. i didnt mean to spark a religious debate, but once it got rolling i can't resist a good jesus-bashin in any case, i think the culture of the various ethnicities definitely plays a role. like someone pointed out, if you look at the male and female role models in black areas, it's unsurprising that you're going to have an uphill battle. but i think a lot of that culture was shaped and defined by economic/class realities.
at the same time, i think part of it is due to an admirable openness of families. while the direct parents seem to be failing, they seem to have much closer extended families... close sisters, grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc. i also think the refusal to condemn is admirable. they don't seem willing to exile their sons or daughters over childbirth... which is good so long as not abused. whites seem far more judgmental... for instance, my brother's fiance has relatives who have said they will not be attending their wedding becos they got an apartment together (living in sin) cos it made no economic sense for them to live separate and her mother still refuses to visit them. that's kinda the opposite unhealthy end of the spectrum. whites also seem rather quick to shuttle grandparents off to homes (though economics might again play a huge role here) so they don't have to be inconvenienced by dependents, which would include young children their teens cannot care for.
i dont doubt they're willing to help, but the official church line is no contraception. personally, i think it has far, far less to do with race than it has to do with income. the poor have less options, resources, and education. from everything i've heard, if you separate by that it is WAY more meaningful than racial distinctions. poor whites vs. rich whites being almost identical to poor blacks vs. rich blacks and whatnot. it just so happens poverty is far more prevalent among minorities, so it LOOKS like a racial issue.
like i said before, it has to do with the hispanic culture and our traditions. it's a normal thing for us to have 6 kids in one family... and it's nothing rare for a girl to marry or have children at a young age.. of course, not many hispanics live this way... i myself for once don't support it, but for the majority of hispanics it's pretty "normal". there is no racial agenda either... it just a part of a culture. it's got nothing to do with the poor either... i see that in many middle class families... 15 yo's having kids...
it might be different in other states, but that's the way it is here in texas. it's funny cause not too long ago i was actually considering how different hispanics here in texas are to those in other parts of the us.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So do they move in with their boyfriends or do they live at their parent's place? The last thing I would have wanted when I was fourteen would have been to be a father. I can't imagine a child wanting a child and the culture not being able to see how hard it is to pull it off.
actually, they live with their parents... and sometimes even the grandmother raises the grandchild... it happens very often where i live. i just don't see how it has anything to do with poor vs rich though... i don't think this has anything to do with any type of political agenda really... it's just a lifestyle.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I was going to say the fattest state but it looks like Mississippi has it now.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
And you did read the part where it said the teen rate is going down, right? So it is working better than the previous program.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
And, all venial sins are mortal sins if you know you're sinning yet continue to willfully do it anyway.
and if they don't? is having one's tubes tied sinful? vasectomy?
sex isn't about procreation fi you are engaging in sex at the moment with no intention and a strong opposition to pregnancy. that is like saying it's ok to steal as long as in the long term you think maybe you might decide not to steal anymore. it's ridiculous.
This from the one who didnt know about venial and mortal sins a few minutes ago.
-Enoch Powell
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the theory i proposed... income and education. let's see the stats broken down by poor white people in trailer parks vs. rich white suburban teens, and black middle class families vs. blacks in the ghetto. only they probly don't track that becos 1) race is such a better headline for scare tactics and 2) anything that might cause people to question the fairness of the completely unchecked capitalist system that creates huge opoprtunity disparity is taboo.
How about attacking the concept of saying an act is a sin but living like it doesn't matter?
This thread is one of the reasons why I detest organized religion.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/pubs/pubd/hestats/teenpreg1990-2002/teenpreg1990-2002.htm
i am attacking the idea. the idea that there is a distinction between the type of sexual act in catholic theology is nonsense. all immoral sexual behavior is a mortal sin of lust. it doesn't matter if it's gangbangs, homosexual acts, or pre-marital sex for the sake of feeling good by having sex with no intention of children. these all fall under the same cloak according to the belief system he claims to espouse. like i said, it's like saying stealing is wrong, but certain kinds of stealing are ok... and we're back to "stealing is wrong, unless im stealing a car in which case it's ok." im asking him to resolve the contradictions in his own ideas. he's not. he's just ignoring the inconvenient ones or distorting them.
Pre-marital Sex is mortal.
Homosexual Sex is mortal.
Masturbation if done in a time of weakness (i.e. you actually regret it afterward) or without the knowlege of its sinful nature is venial.
Willfull, consistant, unrepentent masturbation is arguably mortal.
There's no getting around it. If you've had pre-marital sex, you've committed a mortal sin. Now go to confession and sin no more.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
it also says it's declining at a slower rate that other states.
I'll say one thing, if they are also teaching about condom use with the abstinence, then that's great, if not, seems ignorant to me with the undisputed fact that sex sells most everything in our country, including comic books, cartoons (those more for teens, than younger kids), etc...
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
at a slower rate than other states...I'm just saying focusing on abstinence only doesn't seem very smart in our sex sells country. I would also say that the so called "everything but" approach is kind of rediculous also. I think it's smart to include proper condom use, but I'm not a parent at the moment, so I'm not thinking my opinion is more important than a parents.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
i attack him all the time. id not hide it if i was at him. see the executing hitler thread if you like
in any case, this thread isn't about homosexuality so i'll stop now. my original disgust was with his "idea" that the cause for the discrepancy you noted was that minority women are all just sex crazed. it's a ridiculous contention and he still has produced no proof to support his contention. if it were true, id never date another prudish, stuffy white girl again. latin women can be so fucking hot!
I would think the more unfortunate would have higher rates than those of their race that are better off.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
I agree that the differences come down to a socio-economic type thing. I actually think there is very little institutionalized racism or sexism anymore. Governments just seem to hate poor people now. They don't care about race, sex, creed or sexual orientation. If your poor it's your own damn fault and they hate you for it.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
that's what im saying. i think this has far more to do with class than race. rich people have health care, strong education, stable families, supoprt networks, birth control prescrips, etc. the poor do not have these luxuries. and since a much higher proportion of minorities are poor/in poverty, im not surprised their teen pregnancy rates are much higher.
nothing against them, but id kill either of those women if i got involved with them... or they'd kill me
but yeah, i think racism is on the wane. the old prejudices are all but dead. the problem now is classism, which is much more subtle. it's hard to blame someone for being black, but easy to blame them for being poor. and the devotion to unfettered capitalism spreads an almost darwinistic ideal at times. it's so ignrained in this country that it's VERY hard to talk about or combat.
I agree but to take another view... if you're a boy and grow up and all of your role models have kids with different women, all of your music and culture portrays it, and you have nothing telling you that it's wrong, that's a problem.
When I was in high school, of course we had sex... and there were some people who got caught up in the status of getting so many girls or whatever, but we (as middle class kids from decent families) did everything we could to avoid getting girls pregnant. Sure some kids did stupid things, but there was always that fear that a) your parents would kill you and b) your life would be over - couldn't go away to college or whatever... when you don't have those two things to worry about, I can see how you wouldn't care.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Agree. I think the thread went off when it was giving too much weight to how religious doctrine affects the rates. First it was unfounded and then using religious doctrine as the reason then pointed out what hypocrites religious people are. Not quite realizing they were cutting their arguement off at the knees at that point. It's hard to argue that people are hypocrites and they don't follow doctrine but birth rates are higher because of religion.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
they're all yours man, hehe.
yeah, i dont think i was very clear with my original post mentioning catholicism. i didnt mean to spark a religious debate, but once it got rolling i can't resist a good jesus-bashin
at the same time, i think part of it is due to an admirable openness of families. while the direct parents seem to be failing, they seem to have much closer extended families... close sisters, grandparents, aunts/uncles, etc. i also think the refusal to condemn is admirable. they don't seem willing to exile their sons or daughters over childbirth... which is good so long as not abused. whites seem far more judgmental... for instance, my brother's fiance has relatives who have said they will not be attending their wedding becos they got an apartment together (living in sin) cos it made no economic sense for them to live separate and her mother still refuses to visit them. that's kinda the opposite unhealthy end of the spectrum. whites also seem rather quick to shuttle grandparents off to homes (though economics might again play a huge role here) so they don't have to be inconvenienced by dependents, which would include young children their teens cannot care for.
it might be different in other states, but that's the way it is here in texas. it's funny cause not too long ago i was actually considering how different hispanics here in texas are to those in other parts of the us.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
God forbid Philly was a state.
-Enoch Powell