Answers to outlaw's silly questions...

cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
edited August 2008 in A Moving Train
To keep him from going into cardiac arrest and so he might stop posting a link in every single thread in this forum:

Q1: How can you support Obama who supports Israel?

A: i'm not anti semitic.

Q2: Do you support sanctions for Iran?

A: i don't have a problem with it.

Q3: Do you agree with keeping the military option "on the table" when there is no proof the Iranian nuclear program is for weapons?

A: Of course i do. i am a pacifist, but i'm not naive. i agree with keeping all options on the table when dealing with all nations, including apparently friendly ones. To take anything OFF the table is stupid and naive. Welcome to the world. Try to enjoy your stay. Options on the table are just that. Options. Doesn't mean we have to use that option. Do you think Iran has taken military options off their table? Do you have concrete proof that Iran's nuclear program is NOT for weapons or will not be in the future?

Q4: Do you agree that Iran's nuclear program is illegal?

A: Not sure. Doesn't matter. In this country, drinking alcohol, for persons over the age of 21, is completely legal. You can drink as much as you want. If you decide to get in your oversized energy inefficient vehicle and go for a spin, however, you not only, all of a sudden, become illegal, you pose a HUGE threat. Taking away your damn keys, by force if necessary, is an option i'm keeping on the damn table!

Q5: Do you agree with Obama's FISA compromise?

A: Not entirely. i do understand the necessity, given the way our government works, to take babysteps and compromise to get from point A to point B. i agree that the compromise Obama supported is better than the situation we had before. If i'm starving, i would love a full buffet, but if someone offers me a cheese sandwhich and a back of chips, i'll take it.

Q6: Do you agree with the patriot act?

A: No. Neither does Obama. See above for further explanation.

Q7: Do you agree with giving Bush "blank checks" for Iraq?

A: This one i have to laugh at. It may be the dumbest question on the list. You seriously spin and oversimplify Obama's war funding vote. i've aleady answered this one several times in this forum. It isn't support of war. Its more like support of the KIDS that are already there! Whether i like it or not, whether or not i agree with it, they're already there being shot at, suicide and roadside bombed Cut off all funds, and all you do is take away ant fighting chance they have of surviving. i want them to come home too... preferably ALIVE! Blank checks for war... SHEESH!

Q8: Do you agree with appointing Condi Rice as secretary of State?

A: i take back what i said before. THIS is the dumbest question on the list. WHO CARES! Obama didn't appoint her, and its not an issue i'll be voting on anyway!
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • cornnifer wrote:
    To keep him from going into cardiac arrest and so he might stop posting a link in every single thread in this forum:

    Q1: How can you support Obama who supports Israel?

    A: i'm not anti semitic.

    Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there.

    Why is it difficult for people to get their head around the fact that it is not anti-semitic to be against the way the Israeli government has treated the Palestinians? Religion is no excuse for anyone to get away with what Israel has been perpetrating. To simply dismiss legitimate criticism of a country's repeated actions as anti-semitic is about as ignorant as it gets.
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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there.

    Why is it difficult for people to get their head around the fact that it is not anti-semitic to be against the way the Israeli government has treated the Palestinians? Religion is no excuse for anyone to get away with what Israel has been perpetrating. To simply dismiss legitimate criticism of a country's repeated actions as anti-semitic is about as ignorant as it gets.
    thank you.

    I stopped right there as well.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    _outlaw wrote:
    thank you.

    I stopped right there as well.

    Of course you did.

    i answered all your questions, pal.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    cornnifer wrote:
    i answered all your questions, pal.
    actually, you didn't. you skipped some.

    I'll respond to your answers later today.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    _outlaw wrote:
    actually, you didn't. you skipped some.

    I'll respond to your answers later today.

    i doubt it. Whenever someones mentions that *gasp* people should vote for who they want, you launch into some rant about how this is a discussion board , blah, blah, and no one will answer your dumb questions. i answered them. Now vote for who you want to. i'll do the same.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Silly answers to Outlaw's questions.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    I just love the ....."Everything is anti-semitism when you disagree with, call for accountability/responsibility of .......or criticize anything Israel/Jewish related " .......crowd.

    Infinitely entertaining.
  • NMyTree wrote:
    I just love the ....."Everything is anti-semitism when you disagree with, call for accountability/responsibility of .......or criticize anything Israel/Jewish related " .......crowd.

    Infinitely entertaining.
    "I don't agree with Israel's actions" =/= "I hate every Jew, ever". Kinda sad when you have to make an equation out of it. ;)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    NMyTree wrote:
    Silly answers to Outlaw's questions.

    Then respond. You see. THIS is why no one responds to your ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical questions and calls for discussion. Its a waste of their time. Vote for who you want to, and let others do the same.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Lately, I've been sensing a lot of anti-NMyTreemitics here at the MT.

    I feel threatened and feel the need to defend myself. I think my best course of action would be to bomb and invade everything in a square radious, from here to Texas.........Michigan... Delaware and South Carolina. I think I could feel safe with that accomplished.

    If not, I'll just expand my radious into California, Greenland, the Atlantic ocean and South America:D
  • I posted this in another thread but it should really go here:
    Ok I'll bite.

    Issue 1 Israel: Obama publicly supports our main Allies agenda. However he has also has pledged to bring resolution to the dispute and has met with the Palestinian President already. I don't care that he refuses to meet with Hamas as they engage in tourist like activities. Once they cut that shit out and are strictly a political party then I expect him to include them on the discussions. McCain will not even talk about or acknowledge Palestine. So there is a big difference there.

    Issue 2 Iran: I've been over this so many times. Of course war should be kept on the table when you are negotiating with someone when it involves missile development. Why would Iran have any reason to listen to Obama if we say right off the bat that we will not go to War with you? He is not saying let's go to War. He's saying if there are no concessions from Iran we may end up in some sort of conflict. And no they are not a threat to the US but to our main Ally Israel.

    Issue 3 Condi, Patriot Act, FISA: Bush appointed her not Obama. I have no problem him confirming her candidacy as she was more then qualified for the position even if I disagree with her 100%. Your boy Nader and my Boy Obama will both appoint many cabinet members that Republicans will despise but I doubt they will vote against them if they are qualified. The Patriot Act we have already covered. FISA I disagreed with him on and made that clear, but I respected his reasons he gave for his vote. I still disagreed with him on that one though. But no candidate is perfect.

    Issue 4 Blank Checks for Iraq: Again you leave out that he was the first senator to introduce a bill for a mandatory pull out date for Iraq. Or that he was against the war from the beginning. Or that he has pledged to get the troops home in 16 months and has not wavered. Him voting to keep the troops properly funded does not bother me. Especially when he is running for president and there are a lot of easily manipulated people out there who would look at a vote against funding for Troops as an Anti-Patriot.
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  • nobodynobody Posts: 353
    critizising Israel is one thing. constantly stating Israel is committing a genocide and downplaying the actions of Hamas as "fighting for freedom" is another.
    it doesn't lend your argument any credibility if you overblow and oversimplify it in such a way. Israels misdeeds have to be called out. yet one should always keep in mind Israels unique situation. and this has nothing to do with being politically correct, but being correct about reality.

    m.
    Godwin's Law:
    "As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
  • Iran has done nothing illegal. The anti-semitic card is utter bullshit, and it seems obvious from that some people got worked over hard by the anti Muslim propaganda floating around in the media...promulgated by hate mongers that desire war for profit.

    Scared out of their pants they are...all the way to the election.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • nobody wrote:
    critizising Israel is one thing. constantly stating Israel is committing a genocide and downplaying the actions of Hamas as "fighting for freedom" is another.
    it doesn't lend your argument any credibility if you overblow and oversimplify it in such a way. Israels misdeeds have to be called out. yet one should always keep in mind Israels unique situation. and this has nothing to do with being politically correct, but being correct about reality.

    m.


    couldn't have said it better myself.
  • Hi Israel?

    ...it's God calling...he's says to stop murdering people and taking the land they live on, or you're all going to hell.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    cornnifer wrote:
    Then respond. You see. THIS is why no one responds to your ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical questions and calls for discussion. Its a waste of their time. Vote for who you want to, and let others do the same.

    When have I ever stopped you from voting for who you want?

    This is a discussion board. We all express our opinions and say what we think and feel. No one, especially me has ever tried to stop you or anyone else from doing so.

    In fact, you are no different than anyone else in expressing your thoughts and beliefs. So stop whining and get on with it.

    As for your childish "I speak for everyone" comment.....

    You're certainly far from immune or innocent from " ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical questions and calls for discussion ". As are most on the MT.

    You and anyone else who you claim to speak for, are welcome to sit there patting yourself on the back and telling yourselves that your approach is more valid or more accurate. But you're only kidding yourselves.
  • Hi Israel?

    ...it's God calling...he's says to stop murdering people and taking the land they live on, or you're all going to hell.

    Same could be said of our founding fathers...
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  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    NMyTree wrote:

    So stop whining and get on with it.



    .

    i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • cornnifer wrote:
    i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.

    Thats because the Israel Palestine conflict is the number one concern for Americans...

    Wait it isn't??????
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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    cornnifer wrote:
    Q1: How can you support Obama who supports Israel? A: i'm not anti semitic.
    completely unrelated. what happened to answering these questions:
    do you agree with him giving ALL of Jerusalem to Israel? do you agree with him when he said the Palestinians suffer as a result of them and NOT from the Israeli occupation? do you agree with him when he thinks funding the Israeli "defense" budget is fine? do you agree with the no talks policy on hamas?
    Q2: Do you support sanctions for Iran?
    A: i don't have a problem with it.
    the question was "do you guys agree pushing tougher sanctions on Iran BEFORE we begin talks with them?"
    you agree with his stance on diplomatic talks with Iran, right? well then, why is he pushing for sanctions BEFORE he begins talks with them? don't you think that'll only make the Iranians want to comply LESS?
    Q3: Do you agree with keeping the military option "on the table" when there is no proof the Iranian nuclear program is for weapons?
    A: Of course i do. i am a pacifist, but i'm not naive. i agree with keeping all options on the table when dealing with all nations, including apparently friendly ones. To take anything OFF the table is stupid and naive. Welcome to the world. Try to enjoy your stay. Options on the table are just that. Options. Doesn't mean we have to use that option. Do you think Iran has taken military options off their table?
    Iran has no military options on their table, currently. however, they did say that if they were attacked, they would retaliate. Obama on the other hand is keeping pre-emptive strikes on the table, when there is no proof the program is for nuclear weapons.
    Do you have concrete proof that Iran's nuclear program is NOT for weapons or will not be in the future?
    actually, there is plenty of sufficient proof that Iran's program is not for weapons, and that includes several IAEA reports. as for it being for weapons "in the future"... what the fuck kind of question is that?
    Q4: Do you agree that Iran's nuclear program is illegal?
    A: Not sure. Doesn't matter. In this country, drinking alcohol, for persons over the age of 21, is completely legal. You can drink as much as you want. If you decide to get in your oversized energy inefficient vehicle and go for a spin, however, you not only, all of a sudden, become illegal, you pose a HUGE threat. Taking away your damn keys, by force if necessary, is an option i'm keeping on the damn table!
    that's a very poor analogy, and of course it matters whether or not the PRESIDENT thinks Iran's program is ILLEGAL or not.
    Q5: Do you agree with Obama's FISA compromise?
    A: Not entirely. i do understand the necessity, given the way our government works, to take babysteps and compromise to get from point A to point B. i agree that the compromise Obama supported is better than the situation we had before. If i'm starving, i would love a full buffet, but if someone offers me a cheese sandwhich and a back of chips, i'll take it.
    hahaha, you have the most ridiculous analogies. the "compromise" Obama supported is still terrible. FISA is still unconstitutional, and is an infringement upon our rights, and as long as you excuse Obama "compromising" on that, no real change will ever come about. why would you support Obama if you don't support FISA?
    Q6: Do you agree with the patriot act?
    A: No. Neither does Obama. See above for further explanation.
    yet he still voted for a "compromise" of it. compromise means dick, the Patriot Act is a terrible law and Obama voted for it.
    Q7: Do you agree with giving Bush "blank checks" for Iraq?
    A: This one i have to laugh at. It may be the dumbest question on the list. You seriously spin and oversimplify Obama's war funding vote. i've aleady answered this one several times in this forum. It isn't support of war. Its more like support of the KIDS that are already there! Whether i like it or not, whether or not i agree with it, they're already there being shot at, suicide and roadside bombed Cut off all funds, and all you do is take away ant fighting chance they have of surviving. i want them to come home too... preferably ALIVE! Blank checks for war... SHEESH!
    funny, I said blank checks for IRAQ. not for war. and I never said "it's in support of war." you really love to spin words, but it's a shame that you're terrible at it.
    so you agree with giving Bush checks that go towards continuing the war? do you think that if Congress were to not approve all this money going to Bush, he would be forced to actually DO something?? I love how you guys always mention it as if if Bush didn't get all the money he wanted, the soldiers would automatically be dead. give me a break.
    Q8: Do you agree with appointing Condi Rice as secretary of State?
    A: i take back what i said before. THIS is the dumbest question on the list. WHO CARES! Obama didn't appoint her, and its not an issue i'll be voting on anyway!
    he voted in favor of her which led to her being appointed, and of course it's an issue because it shows past actions he took, which were not very good...
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Thats because the Israel Palestine conflict is the number one concern for Americans...

    Wait it isn't??????
    It's a major concern for the Arab nations, who we're deeply involved with. We also show blind support towards Israel and give them billions of dollars of aid, involving ourselves in the conflict.

    But I'm sure you know that.
  • cornnifer wrote:
    i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.

    crap response?

    So being against the neo-con ideology is anti-american? fire up your logic circuits and think that scenario through for a spell...

    You have thought about this topic before right?

    There's been dozens upon dozens of discussions on here before on why it's not anti-semitic to oppose Israel's extreme right policies.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    cornnifer wrote:
    i doubt it. Whenever someones mentions that *gasp* people should vote for who they want, you launch into some rant about how this is a discussion board , blah, blah, and no one will answer your dumb questions. i answered them. Now vote for who you want to. i'll do the same.
    what do you doubt? that you didn't answer all my questions or that I'll respond? you make no sense. and nowhere did I ever say you can't vote for who you want. if you're so scared of being influenced or discussing political candidates on the political section of a message board, then seriously, stop reading it and stop posting here. no offense or anything, but it just makes no sense complaining about something like that.
  • NMyTree wrote:
    I just love the ....."Everything is anti-semitism when you disagree with, call for accountability/responsibility of .......or criticize anything Israel/Jewish related " .......crowd.

    Infinitely entertaining.

    100% AGREED... I enjoy using names like Chomsky and Zinn out there when people throw the A/S card out at me.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    cornnifer wrote:
    i wasn't whining. i did get on with it. All i got from you is some nonsense about it being silly. All i've gotten from any one else is a crap response on point #1. The shortest of 8. So much for "this is a discussion board.

    Yeah, that's what happens when you make a comment which pigeon-holes anyone who criticizes Israel as "Antisemitic".

    As if you didn't expect that to happen:rolleyes:

    Now you're whining about what questions you posed were addressed and the one's that were not.

    Would I take a page from your own book and say that maybe, just maybe.....no one else wants to respond to ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical questions? No I won't say that.

    I'm not going to take it upon myself to speak for everyone else, here.

    This is not elementry school, this is not high school and neither is it a popularity contest. And I'm not 12 years old and interested in being in anyone's " clique ".
  • _outlaw wrote:
    It's a major concern for the Arab nations, who we're deeply involved with. We also show blind support towards Israel and give them billions of dollars of aid, involving ourselves in the conflict.

    But I'm sure you know that.

    True. Good points.

    Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.

    Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.
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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Issue 1 Israel: Obama publicly supports our main Allies agenda. However he has also has pledged to bring resolution to the dispute and has met with the Palestinian President already. I don't care that he refuses to meet with Hamas as they engage in tourist like activities. Once they cut that shit out and are strictly a political party then I expect him to include them on the discussions. McCain will not even talk about or acknowledge Palestine. So there is a big difference there.
    thanks for answering the questions.
    Obama publicly supports our main Allies agenda: actually, it's much more than this. Obama has gone the step no president, including Bush, has gone before- giving ALL of Jerusalem to Israel. Obama has not once mentioned the occupation over Gaza and the West Bank. Obama has not once mentioned the Palestinians' suffering as a result of the occupation from the Israelis, but actually had the balls to blame the Palestinians' suffering on themselves! seriously, that alone makes me want to throw up.

    And your comment about Hamas engaging in terrorist-like activities is laughable because you exclude the fact that Israel engages in even worse terrorist-like activities. Hamas is the democratically elected government of Palestine. They, NOT Fatah and Abbas, represent the views of most Palestinians. They are the ones we must talk to. Obama's plan on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is absolutely the worst in any president's history thus yet. McCain atleast said that we have to talk to Hamas. Granted, he did take it back, but atleast he even said it.
    Issue 2 Iran: I've been over this so many times. Of course war should be kept on the table when you are negotiating with someone when it involves missile development. Why would Iran have any reason to listen to Obama if we say right off the bat that we will not go to War with you?
    uhh... Iran is looking forward to a president that does not have war as options... Iran is looking forward to having real diplomatic talks with a good American president. In fact, if we took off military options and Obama extended his hand to the Iranians to look for only peaceful solutions (though there is no problem), then the Iranians would be more inclined to do so. you think it makes more sense to scare the Iranians into talking?
    He is not saying let's go to War. He's saying if there are no concessions from Iran we may end up in some sort of conflict. And no they are not a threat to the US but to our main Ally Israel.
    they aren't a threat to Israel either, though. they have never given us any reason to think they are a threat to Israel. you also ignored the question about sanctions and whether or not you think Iran's nuclear program is illegal.
    Issue 3 Condi, Patriot Act, FISA: Bush appointed her not Obama. I have no problem him confirming her candidacy as she was more then qualified for the position even if I disagree with her 100%.
    Kabong has argued this with you several times- she certainly was not qualified since she lied, and the point isn't whether you will be QUALIFIED, the point is whether you think the person would make a good secretary of state and serve the country in our best interests, which she doesn't.
    FISA I disagreed with him on and made that clear, but I respected his reasons he gave for his vote. I still disagreed with him on that one though. But no candidate is perfect.
    I do agree that if you think Obama is fine on most other issues, then FISA alone shouldn't convince you otherwise... however, FISA is just one of many issues I have with him which is my complaint. since we are both on board with disagreeing with FISA though, there's no reason to discuss it further...
    Issue 4 Blank Checks for Iraq: Again you leave out that he was the first senator to introduce a bill for a mandatory pull out date for Iraq.
    leave out? i asked questions, I didn't write a speech.
    Or that he was against the war from the beginning.
    correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Obama once say something along the lines of "There's not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush's position at this stage" ??
    Or that he has pledged to get the troops home in 16 months and has not wavered.
    MOST troops, and not home, but rather in Afghanistan. oh, not to mention keeping Blackwater in Iraq.
    Him voting to keep the troops properly funded does not bother me. Especially when he is running for president and there are a lot of easily manipulated people out there who would look at a vote against funding for Troops as an Anti-Patriot.
    riight, back to the whole "it's a no-win situation since people will think wrongly of him." so he has to do choices that he may not agree with just so people don't think wrongly of him? isn't that highly unethical and hypocritical?
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.
    not necessarily, actually. many of those points include Israel, believe it or not. such as the economy, most arab countries whenever discussing Iraq with the U.S. also choose to discuss Palestine/Israel which makes it somewhat involved with that, Iran is definitely involved with that, Gas Prices have a lot to do with the Arab world who is involved with that, etc.
    Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.
    I know.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    True. Good points.

    Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.

    Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.

    The Israel conflict is very much intertwined with Iran, Iraq and this administrations 'War On Terrorism".

    Furthermore our Economy, Health Care, Education, Gas Prices are also affected to some degree when this administration gives billions of dollars to Israel and spending a gazillion dollars on a phoney, trumped-up war.

    Money that should be going to all of the above mentioned programs/issues/infrastructure, is being wasted.

    Not to mention the still unaccounted for 8 billion dollars that was given to Blackwater amd the unaccounted for 9 billion dollars that was supposed build a new Police Station in Baghdad.

    So in many ways it is all connected and intertwined.


    I know...I know.....that's all ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical:rolleyes:
  • True. Good points.

    Still doesn't change the fact that the Economy, Health Care, Education, Iraq, Iran, Gas Prices, etc etc are all more important then Israel.

    Most Americans could care less about the conflict like it or not.

    It's a shame. Israel is essentially the source of the conflict. It's the main grievance from the Arab world. It's like China claiming a US state (then giving it away to someone), then occupying it forcefully, because some of their ancestors did something special to them in that state a couple thousand years ago (and they have it recorded in a special book which is also special to them).

    This shoe just does not fit on the other foot, so as far as fairness is concerned...well there really is none.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
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